Are things worse than we could have imagined

[hiflymk3]

Originally Posted by dead_pan

Thank goodness we're not about to greatly complicate matters by disrupting trade flows with our single biggest trading bloc partner. Oh wait...

The virus will be a handy scapegoat for any post brexit hiccoughs.

[WB627]

Originally Posted by Christopher Robin

Hi,

The problem is the young are paying for this with their education and jobs and future taxes and it is the retired who are calling for a lock down yet it is the
young that are least at risk.

Did I call for a lock down?

I have called for the vulnerable to be protected not for the whole of society to be locked down to protect them. I have children that are paying for this and it worries me to hell and I said this will come at a substantial cost to all of us, me included.

If this gets out of control, society could collapse and it is that the government are trying to avoid, not keeping the "oldies" alive, even if they form a substantial part of their voter base. Locking down the country again will be bad for all of us, that includes me and everyone else who is retired, but probably not as bad as having society collapse.

Perhaps it is time to really crack down on those who ignore the rules and put us all in harms way, both directly from the virus and indirectly from the economic impact.

[Alsacienne]

The virus will be a handy scapegoat for any post brexit hiccoughs.

It already is, even though the transition period has not yet come to its end ..... and it's clear that by bouncing between COVID and Brexit, it shows that the Government is playing swings and roundabouts and not committing to resolving either situation.

[SarcenStone]

There is natural conflict between saving lives and saving jobs. At present loss of life in the UK is thankfully well below what was seen in the spring and we must hope that another lockdown does not become necessary as the economic damage would of itself drive mental and physical health into a dangerous place.

The government can currently borrow for ten years at around 0.2% and concerns around high national debt levels can be tempered somewhat I believe. Indeed there is a flood of money seeking a safe home at present which suggests the UK can fund itself for now.

Surely we can issue a "Covid19" bond, dated 25 years or longer at tiny relative cost? This would ease the fears of short term economic damage and potentially create necessary capital to fund essential"levelling up" work to be done as well as pay for the Chancellor's largesse. With a bit left over for Brexit damage if required.

Some imagination and courage needed. Come on! We can do this.

[andrewn]

Originally Posted by dead_pan

Thank goodness we're not about to greatly complicate matters by disrupting trade flows with our single biggest trading bloc partner. Oh wait...

Oh wow, that's hilarious, comedy genius at large 🤣

As a little reminder, if it wasn't for the joys of globalisation we wouldnt be in this little pickle, a la covid. Neither would we, as an island nation, have such bad figures if we hadn't crammed in an extra 10M people in in the last 20yrs!

But hey, why let facts get in the way of the EU fairytale.

[andrewn]

Originally Posted by Christopher Robin

Hi,

The problem is the young are paying for this with their education and jobs and future taxes and it is the retired who are calling for a lock down yet it is the
young that are least at risk.

And I think that's the challenge, and the fine line, our incompetent bunch of leaders have to manage.

I speak as somebody with a teenager at home, he and his brethren (or "mandem" as they prefer) are not nearly as "woke" as the BBC and other MSM would have you believe. They'd more than happily sacrifice the elderly (anyone over 40) to the altar of "living their best life".

FYI - if none of the above makes any sense then I'll assume a lack of familiarity with post millennial / generation Z's !!

[flash8]

VP: It doesn't take a lot to produce civil unrest

Civil unrest always seems contagious to me, that is after breaking out in one part of the country (cars overturned, disaffected youth) it rapidly seems to spread to other parts. Given the significant reduction in the police force the last decade coupled with frustration seemingly cutting through social/economic/age boundaries (looking at photos of the protesters in London today) after Brexit if things are pushed a little further (as they well might be) I'd hate to predict what might happen.

From my experience of the UK (up to around the year 2000) most folk seem rather subdued though, I mean it isn't like France and the French, so on the other hand I find it also hard to see the masses protesting in the street (which is now illegal, some might say conveniently) with pitchforks.

How many of the London protesters did the Police actually arrest for breaking the new rules? If they went in hard they'd be damned and might inflame the situation, and if they didn't they also aren't sending out the correct "message". They really are stuck in the middle.

[mattyj]

The real civil unrest grows out of boredom and envy during times of high unemployment and poverty..buckle up

[Loose rivets]

Neither would we, as an island nation, have such bad figures if we hadn't crammed in an extra 10M people in in the last 20yrs!

You've made the bee in my bonnet buzz. Those that also enjoy an elephantine memory, will recall my disbelief in our population figures. However, the CIA's calculations seemed to bolster the government's optimistic low figure so I assumed I must be wrong.

The datum is 1950. 50 million. It was 47 million when I could first understand such numbers.

A particularly good interactive graph.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...lation/mar2017

When I was a teenager, I could walk to the next town in the middle of the road without fear of being squashed. Late evenings, it was like lockdown.

For every five people when I was a nipper becoming only 6.8, I say Bo-lox. Loudly.

[flash8]

Originally Posted by Loose rivets

A particularly good interactive graph.

That is one scary graph.

[esa-aardvark]

shame (!) the graph cannot be zero based. Still in 1850 population was around 27 million.
Drop of a couple million during ww2.

[scr1]

If you read the text it says that the population growth is due to a ageing population

[andrewn]

Originally Posted by scr1

If you read the text it says that the population growth is due to a ageing population

Yes it does make that point first, but if you keep reading 📚 it says a greater amount is due to net migration to UK averaging 250-300k over a prolonged period, also calls out impact of birth rate of new arrivals and even makes the direct link between EU enlargement/FMoP.

The facts are there, just a little hidden in order to protect the woke

[Ascend Charlie]

Population growth is also the result of lower child mortality rates, and a lot more severely handicapped kids surviving to an older age.

[dead_pan]

Originally Posted by andrewn

Oh wow, that's hilarious, comedy genius at large 🤣

As a little reminder, if it wasn't for the joys of globalisation we wouldnt be in this little pickle, a la covid. Neither would we, as an island nation, have such bad figures if we hadn't crammed in an extra 10M people in in the last 20yrs!

But hey, why let facts get in the way of the EU fairytale.

Err I thought one of the principle selling points of Brexit was increasing access to global trade, you know, Global Britain and all that? Also one of the reasons many developed nations have done so badly WRT Covid is our ageing (and increasingly unhealthy) populations. Buy hey, don't let these facts get in the way of your Brexit fantasy.

[ShotOne]

You say developed nations do badly because of aged population. Healthcare in developing countries simply doesn’t support significant numbers of aged people with serious health conditions; they just die of them. Is this your solution?

...and please no more contortions to conflate Brexit with Covid

[Alsacienne]

and please no more contortions to conflate Brexit with Covid

Not quite sure about the word conflate. Both B and C are happening now, nobody seems to know how to solve either and they are both problems that cause vitriol, anger and lack of commonsense in those affected. But they BOTH need handling and at the same time .... NOW.

[PilotLZ]

Turkey and Poland on the UK quarantine list now. One was the leading holiday destination after the introduction of quarantine for Spain, the other one is the homeland of the largest non-British group of Europeans in the UK. Rather obvious what this means for traffic numbers.

[eimin]

Originally Posted by Harley Quinn

Perhaps it would be better to let the disease run loose across the world; cull the weak and infirm. Those youngsters amongst you who resent paying for the oldies would definitely benefit. Maybe even recycle the corpses to grow more food. It apparently doesn't harm the very young significantly so why not? Restart travel, social mixing and allow nature to take its course; survival of the fittest has served pretty well over the last 3+ billion years

Agreed. This attempt to fight nature and win the war against it, maybe going too far. Life is misery and suffering, for all life on earth.

[meadowrun]

Life is misery and suffering, for all life on earth.

Disagree, although we all have a portion of that to deal with in distinctly varying degrees.
The true role of the progress of civilization is to lift mankind from misery and suffering. An imperfect work in progress but it is the only path.
That said, the biggest problem facing the world is ever increasing over population and the worlds growing inability to support it.