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The Beginnings of a Police State?

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The Beginnings of a Police State?

Old 15th Sep 2020, 14:20
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
All about trying to influence a crowd without bringing the water cannon out. A slight change in wording and nuance wouldn't have gone amiss....' if you see behaviours which you think might put you at risk' or something. Can't see much harm in low density garden parties compared to nightclubs and bars.
The problem is that sensible people will behave sensibly. Of course you could have a barbecue with a dozen people, even in a modest sized garden, whilst ensuring decent spacing between participants, and taking measures to ensure that people went to a serving table placed a metre away from the barbecue itself, one at a time to collect food, using their own utensils, rather than shared ones. I know it's possible as that's pretty much what we did for the VE day party we held in our road. The problem is that, once behind the garden fence, and fueled with alcohol, many people will not behave sensibly. The government believes you have to cater for the lowest common denominator, and given the abject stupidity of the 19 yearold in Nottingham last weekend with his house party, they are probably right to do so.

At least in bars and nightclubs there is the pretence of having some supervision of patrons, though in reality I guess the publican, or corporation looks at the money first and foremost, with public health issues a distant second. For that very reason I would be very picky about which pubs I might consider visiting, and those I would definitely not.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 14:21
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WB627 View Post
Like the local pub that some on here like to frequent and extoll the virtues on here, of not wearing a mask whilst doing so

Indeed. Closest I've got to my local for the past few months is to stand outside the door and wait for them to bring out our takeaway!
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 14:27
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Never mind. If you want to organise a rave, just call it a grouse shoot and it’ll be ok.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 14:28
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Indeed. Closest I've got to my local for the past few months is to stand outside the door and wait for them to bring out our takeaway!
We've been going to various pubs weekly since they re-opened. All had well seperated tables and took contact details. As the slogan from sone years ago said, " Use it or lose it".
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 14:39
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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The problem with all this is the assumption of the level of compliance with a minimizing solution to Covid. One has to assume a percentage of compliance and is the fix really going to work if the non-compliance percent is high even with in-effective police action. So really what effective change will the masks and separations be with the level of non-compliance before and after police action. A feel-goodie to calm the populace or a meaningful flatening of the zig-zag curve?

Eventually those in charge will have to realize that many solutions of theirs will have nil-effect other than feel-goodies or pissing off their populace.

So do judge what you think the compliance rate really is
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 14:40
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I would ring 101 and report Lord Barnard Castle, and not-so-Priti Patel for her little play as super-spy in Israel.

My neighbours can do what the hell they like...............
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 15:03
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wowzz View Post
We've been going to various pubs weekly since they re-opened. All had well seperated tables and took contact details. As the slogan from sone years ago said, " Use it or lose it".
We've been trying to do our bit to keep the pub going by having a takeaway from them at least once a week since the start of lockdown. The landlady mentioned right at the start of this that as long as they could keep takeaways going, and perhaps re-open their B&B, they would probably be OK, as most of the profit comes from food, apparently. It's hard to social distance in a pub with small bar areas, too. They have a marquee set up in the garden that seems to work OK, but somehow it's not really the same as being in the bar.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 15:06
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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I could only just resist pointing out the differences.....................
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 15:21
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Mind you, I’m not actually sure how we can become a police state when we don’t have enough law enforcers anyway. I understand there’s only a 20% chance of a quarantine check and my son’s French girlfriend came through the Chunnel last week and wasn’t entirely sure of the postal address she would be staying at for the next two weeks so she said it was ‘somewhere in North London’ She was let through.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 15:43
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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not-so-Priti Patel
I never understand why it is necessary to be rude to make a political point.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 16:08
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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I think it is frustration born out of the utter contempt we now have for our politicians, on both sides of the house. We do get the politicians we deserve, but that doesn't me we have to like it.

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Old 15th Sep 2020, 16:27
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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we
should be "I"
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 16:47
  #33 (permalink)  
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We've been going to various pubs weekly since they re-opened. All had well seperated tables and took contact details. As the slogan from sone years ago said, " Use it or lose it".
Same here, twice a week, Sunday lunch and one evening.

not-so-Priti Patel
Oh, come on, you might think she's a stupid cow, but she's definitely not ugly. I would, anytime.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 17:34
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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I am suspicious that Holyrood has let a contract for the Bluetooth track and trace app with Amazon for 10 years
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 17:49
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Much as I think we needed action to prevent the spread of COVID-19 - I am very concerned about the way much of the legislation has been introduced without parliamentary scrutiny through the use of statutory instruments.

The Barrister Adam Wagner has provided some interesting views on this...


Although I think Piers Corbyn is barking mad - it's is very concerning that he was fined using a piece of legislation that came into effect only a day or so before the event - and without any parliamentary scrutiny at all.

As Wagner points out - with the "flick of Matt Hancock's pen" something can bcome an offence.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 19:52
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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The UK has been a police state for the whole of this century. I didn't realise it until I worked in China and found that I could talk about anything without some political activist shouting and screaming about what I had said.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 13:30
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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A (very) left wing mate has a strong dislike of authority, royalty, and the police in particular, yet he surprised me by saying the nanny state exists because we have so many idiots who do actually need nannying. He may have a point.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 16:22
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
The UK has been a police state for the whole of this century. .......................
As demonstrated by the (then) Association of Chief Police Officers when it decided that they could and should instal ANPR equipment on every major road in the country, at intervals of about 30 miles. I don't know how complete this project is, but I do know that on any trip of more than an hour or two you'll be recorded at least 30 times. It's a level of intrusive surveillance that exceeds by a huge factor the level in any other country except, maybe, North Korea. The ACPO saw no reason to ask any politicians how they felt about it. So vehicles on major roads in the UK are now watched by at least 11,000 ANPR cameras submitting at least 50 million read records daily.

And then there's CCTV equipment monitoring the public, increasingly using facial recognition technology. How many cameras? let's guess at millions.

"All that is needed for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing."
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 18:03
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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It is a sad fact that one of the main impacts of having near-instant, fairly anonymous, global communication available to humankind, is that it has massively increased the level of rudeness, intolerance and personal abuse in society, such that this behaviour is now seen by some as being both normal and acceptable.

Not that many years ago, the sort of behaviour towards others that we see from some when online would have been moderated by the rapid feedback they received from those around them, either verbal or physical. Unfortunately, the near complete absence of such feedback online has allowed some free rein to behave without any form of constraint, changing the balance of civility and tolerance in society to the detriment of all.

Being able to vehemently disagree with someone's point of view, without resorting to insulting and abusive language, is a reasonable measure of intellectual ability, as well as a measure of perhaps the most important attribute humankind has, understanding. Why some people find it so difficult to politely disagree with others I don't fully understand, but I am convinced that being able to be insulting and abusive with little or no fear of retribution may be one reason.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 18:27
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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A burgeoning police state? Let me see… citizens aren't required to have identity cards. Demonstrations are permitted about virtually anything. A voting system that isn't rigged and multiple parties. Workers allowed to strike. Freedom of religion. No one locked up for years without trial. Media and Internet not regulated.
Admittedly we have a very mild 'repression' of our normal day-to-day activities due to present circumstances and as far as I can see it's for the greater good of everyone including those that don't have the discipline or intelligence to keep the majority safe from infection. I don't see any problem.
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