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Life on Venus?

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Life on Venus?

Old 15th Sep 2020, 14:50
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I admit to sleeping with Venus in about 1972. There was certainly lots of life in her.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 15:09
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hokulea View Post
I do. I think a lot of other people do as well. Finding a biomarker of possible life elsewhere in the universe is a big deal to many people. On the other hand, there are a few people that couldn't give a toss. So why even bother posting on the thread? And who is "us"?
I agree, it would be fantastically important. At the moment we have no idea how common life is in the universe, with an n of 1, we have no way of telling if life is everywhere or just here. A 2nd observation would be hugely important. If it is of independent origin, that will say that life is everywhere, and then the big question becomes, how common is life capable of developing technology?. If on the other hand, it looks like it has a common origin with terrestrial life, that will have a different set of implications.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 18:48
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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What was the misquote again? I dont know whats scarier. That were the only planet with life on it. Or that we arent.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 19:36
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If there are intelligent life forms out there watching us, they'll be shaking their one, two or three heads in disbelief at our antics.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 19:41
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Or saying: Been there, done it!
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 20:00
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hokulea View Post
I do. I think a lot of other people do as well. Finding a biomarker of possible life elsewhere in the universe is a big deal to many people. On the other hand, there are a few people that couldn't give a toss. So why even bother posting on the thread? And who is "us"?
There is bound to be life elsewhere in the universe, how may galaxies do they reckon, ten to the ten. And how many stars in each, ten to the ten again?
The science is so flimsy that every ' discovery' is ambivalent and sucks in more endeavour to find further pieces of ambivalent evidence.
Really can't see the interest in it. Mars looks a racing certainty that it once had some level of life on it but I dont seek definitive proof as after all what would that change?
Mind you, when I was a child I am sure there were kiddies books showing macro life forms speculated to be on Venus. Now that would be worth a look.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 20:21
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Mr Optimistic,

Drake Equation



= number of civilizations with which humans could communicate = mean rate of star formation = fraction of stars that have planets = mean number of planets that could support life per star with planets = fraction of life-supporting planets that develop life = fraction of planets with life where life develops intelligence = fraction of intelligent civilizations that develop communication = mean length of time that civilizations can communicate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

Last edited by denachtenmai; 15th Sep 2020 at 20:25. Reason: Addition
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 21:38
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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I forget what that principle that argued against claiming we were in someway special observers in the universe is called ( anyway it's just words) but life teamed out of this plant in a what is no time at all. Of course there has been, and will be, life elsewhere in the universe. The numbers are just so huge. Seems where to me that this isn't the starting point of any discussion like this.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 23:25
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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The question should not be 'is there life out there?' but 'when is there life out there?'...
From what I can understand of it, the Drake equation does not take into account the chances of life anywhere coinciding with life here, now.
Basically what I'm saying is there may well have been technologically advanced civilizations in the past and there may well be in the future, but for them to exist at the same time as us is a bit of a stretch.
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Old 15th Sep 2020, 23:43
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, there has been life, there will be life, and we will never get unequivocal evidence of it, and no we will never communicate with others. But it doesn't matter, they have spent time and money detecting a chemical. It's just the consequence of huge numbers of time and distance.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 01:03
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I think there's something fishy about phosphine.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 05:47
  #32 (permalink)  
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Within the Drake equation, the value of Fp is now greater than 0.5 i.e. it is more likely that a star will have planets than will not have planets. The odds are only increasing that somewhere else, there is life. Should it be proven that the phosphine is made through a biological process then it may be the greatest scientific discovery of the last thousand years.

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Old 16th Sep 2020, 07:41
  #33 (permalink)  
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TURIN - the last variable in the Drake equation incorporates the "when" question, i.e., how long does a civilization last and can communicate with us. Remember, the equation is about what civilizations we could communicate, not how many civilizations may have existed in the past and we know nothing about them.

Last edited by Hokulea; 16th Sep 2020 at 07:55.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 09:41
  #34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Yes, there has been life, there will be life, and we will never get unequivocal evidence of it, and no we will never communicate with others. But it doesn't matter, they have spent time and money detecting a chemical. It's just the consequence of huge numbers of time and distance.
I get the impression you don't care for the scientific method and simply don't care. That's fine. I don't understand your comment that we'll never get unequivocal evidence of it unless you believe there is no life on Earth which is a bit of a strange opinion. What I don't understand is your involvement in the thread. If you don't care about discovering a biomarker on Venus, why even post on this thread? It's obvious you don't care about the significance of looking for life elsewhere in the universe and that's OK, but why tell everyone else about it? Instead, how about explaining why it's a waste of everyone's time?

PS. Time and distance for detecting phosphine on Venus? I'd love to read your explanation for this because I haven't a clue what you are on about.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 09:43
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Can WE be absolutely 100% certain that its not in someway connected to contamination from the various probes we have launched to Venus over the decades.
I believe the longest lasting probe post landing is about 2 minutes?
Fascinating news all the same.
Live long and prosper
David
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 09:59
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur View Post
Can WE be absolutely 100% certain that its not in someway connected to contamination from the various probes we have launched to Venus over the decades.
I believe the longest lasting probe post landing is about 2 minutes?
Fascinating news all the same.
Live long and prosper
David
The possibility of cross contamination from meteor impact debris is the more likely scenario. Antarctica is apparently strewn with small fragments of Mars so it seems equally reasonable that small pieces of Earth could reach as far as Mars or Venus. So yes, if life was confirmed, it would be a fascinating finding, but not necessarily proof of independent origin.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 10:09
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Until phosphene can grow opposing thumbs I think we're safe.

Whenever the subject of ET comes up I always think of the Cadburys Smash tv adverts from back when.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 10:15
  #38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur View Post
Can WE be absolutely 100% certain that its not in someway connected to contamination from the various probes we have launched to Venus over the decades.David
I think we can be certain. If microbes are responsible for the phosphine they would have had to evolve in order to survive in a highly acidic atmosphere in the upper clouds. It's hard to imagine a way any probes we've sent to Venus would deposit microbes on Venus and have them survive and produce so much phosphine. If microbes are responsible for phosphine, it's much more likely they evolved over millions or billions of years. There is evidence Venus was actually quite a hospitable environment hundreds of million years ago so it's possible some life formed there and evolved to survive in the planet's clouds.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 10:20
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dont Hang Up View Post
The possibility of cross contamination from meteor impact debris is the more likely scenario. Antarctica is apparently strewn with small fragments of Mars so it seems equally reasonable that small pieces of Earth could reach as far as Mars or Venus. So yes, if life was confirmed, it would be a fascinating finding, but not necessarily proof of independent origin.
Serious question(I know this is jetblast) How do bits of Martian materiel achieve escape velocity, in order to travel to earth ?
David
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 10:37
  #40 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by The AvgasDinosaur View Post
Serious question(I know this is jetblast) How do bits of Martian materiel achieve escape velocity, in order to travel to earth ?
David
Large meteorites. When the solar system was young rocks were flying all over the place and collided with planets. It's a process that's still going on but fortunately at a much-reduced rate these days. Those collisions can have enough energy to launch rocks into orbit and beyond. Rocks from Mars have been discovered on Earth, so we know this is something that actually happens.
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