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Microwave Power Grid

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Microwave Power Grid

Old 1st Sep 2020, 08:22
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Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Microwave Power Grid

Same technology as envisaged for solar power satellites to transmit to ground receivers. Crucial factor will be the efficiency and therefore cost vs that of installing anD maintaining a conventional power grid - and of course regulatory.

Lots of arguments about the safety of solar microwave satellites because of aircraft penetrating the beam, and they are planned to be more diffuse. Getting clearance based on [email protected] detection on a ground network will be way harder.

Onthe other hand it is also the same cost argument as to why mobile phone networks predominate in Africa and Asia where they are far easier and cheaper to install than legacy landline networks in Europe and America.

https://techxplore.com/news/2020-08-...-wireless.html

New Zealand startup eyes global wireless electrical grid

Last edited by ORAC; 1st Sep 2020 at 11:29.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 11:15
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You've got the date right, but the wrong month. It's September, not April.

Last edited by Sallyann1234; 1st Sep 2020 at 16:42.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 17:41
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I remember this idea from 30-40 years ago. What killed it was the question :-
What if it all goes wrong, ie beam mis-directed or whatever?
Real answer (my opinion) go back to local generation, by whatever means.
Get rid of all those grid losses.
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Old 1st Sep 2020, 18:47
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There are so many issues that it's difficult to know where to start, so I won't.
Having planned many point-point microwave links I can say confidently that it is going nowhere as a means of transferring power, other than as an inefficient short distance demonstration.
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 03:11
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This would make 5G conspiracy theorists heads explode
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 09:17
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Originally Posted by halas View Post
This would make 5G conspiracy theorists heads explode
Only if they put their heads into the beam. But I think that would be something we should encourage them to do.

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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 09:43
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Tinfoil..... Lots and lots of tinfoil.....
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 09:43
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As the article correctly states, Nikola Tesla envisioned all this a century ago. He was a great inventor scientist but a lousy business man. The opposition bought him out and he died a lonely recluse in a NY hotel. It somewhat illustrates the parable of the ever lasting razor blade.
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 09:52
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Tesla was the original flawed genius.
He suggested that electrical energy could be pumped into the ground at one point and then extracted anywhere else on Earth without loss.
He also proposed a system for communicating with the inhabitants of Mars.
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 10:13
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Tesla was the original flawed genius.
He suggested that electrical energy could be pumped into the ground at one point and then extracted anywhere else on Earth without loss.
He also proposed a system for communicating with the inhabitants of Mars.


So he invented Jet Blast?
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 11:02
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I think it would upset David Icke


Honestly I think it would be just like a perpetual motion machine.
It would need to create more energy and power than it provides at the end socket.
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 11:43
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Honestly I think it would be just like a perpetual motion machine.
It would need to create more energy and power than it provides at the end socket.
No, just produce a lot of power. Omnidirectional broadcast power, after all, is what the sun provides - just so much it doesn’t matter about the inverse square rule. Directional beamed power reduces the losses (same principle as those now looking at powering drones etc*). The interesting thing here is the claim of just about zero losses - which seems unlikely - what's the formula be for unidirectional?

Anyway, as I say, I can’t see the H&S issues allowing its use.

* https://www.powerelectronicsnews.com...-transmission/

Last edited by ORAC; 2nd Sep 2020 at 12:35.
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 12:32
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If you could beam microwaves losslessly over 20,000 miles then you wouldn't need all that clever Rx front end detectors stuff on microwave radars to catch the reflected waves, and all the clever correlation stuff to extract the tiny signal from the background noise.

If it's something you'd like to invest in then I also have an attractive ocean-facing property in Utah that may interest you...

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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 12:33
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
No, just produce a lot of power. Omnidirectional broadcast power, after all, is what the sun provides - just so much it doesn’t matter about the inverse square rule. Directional beamed power reduces the losses (same principle as those now looking at powering drones etc*). The interesting thing here is the claim of just about zero losses - which seems unlikely - what the formula be for unidirectional?
You could start here:
https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/antennas-propagation/propagation-overview/radio-link-budget-formula-calculator.php

Plenty of other resources on the web.
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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 12:43
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-...r_transmission

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-...r_transmission

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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 14:33
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You might note that the "82% efficiency over 1km" in that video is the just efficiency of the receiver array - it's just the proportion of the incident radiation which made it out to the light bulbs. End-to-end efficiency would have to include the efficiency of the microwave transmitter and the attenuation losses between Tx and Rx.In the opening post it talks about providing grid power for an island, but it also talks about it being safe because it only uses power densities of around 1kW/m^2. In the UK typical domestic provision is ~100A (25kW) per house, so they would need well over 25m^2 of antenna (transmitter as well as receiver) per house. How many houses are there on that island?

And you wonder why we feel it's published in the wrong month?

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Old 2nd Sep 2020, 14:45
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Tongue firmly in cheek, but we have a receiver array* with an area of ~41 sq m, that receives enough energy from the transmitter** at frequencies between ~440 and 770 THz to provide more energy over the course of a year than our house needs, so we sell roughly half of the received energy to the grid.


* a.k.a. solar panels

** The sun
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 09:30
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
He also proposed a system for communicating with the inhabitants of Mars.
Might work around here; I live a stones throw from Horsell Common, just outside Woking where Herbert George W lived.
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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 15:57
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Maybe they could create something like this?

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Old 3rd Sep 2020, 21:18
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Tongue firmly in cheek, but we have a receiver array* with an area of ~41 sq m, that receives enough energy from the transmitter** at frequencies between ~440 and 770 THz to provide more energy over the course of a year than our house needs, so we sell roughly half of the received energy to the grid.


* a.k.a. solar panels

** The sun
And all that surplus power is probably fed into the grid by a couple of copper wires each having an area of 2.5mm^2. Bit more efficient than the microwave system managing just 1kW/m^2.
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