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Ghislaine Maxwell arrested by FBI

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Ghislaine Maxwell arrested by FBI

Old 6th Jan 2022, 07:24
  #241 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
They are looking at appealing after a jurors comments that he was abused as a as a child and relating the story to the rest of the jury which swayed them to find a guilty.

Odd I thought that was what a jury was supposed to do, talk through a case and each one of them to put their point of view across until they reach a verdict. Would fellow jurors at a trial with a coloured Jury member listening to a case of racism not look to the thoughts of the coloured juror to get his insight? I would.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59884806
There's also a suggestion he lied on his jury questionnaire where they were asked if they'd been victims of any sexual abuse and he ticked no.
He reportedly says he "skimmed through" the forms.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 08:58
  #242 (permalink)  
 
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Then if he skimmed through it why was he put up for service and why was he elected to stand, do they ( the lawyers ) not have the option to chose or dismiss potential jurors pre trial as you see on TV?
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 09:45
  #243 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
B. Fraser

The point is that people don‘t have to be whiter-than-white to have a reasonable claim that they were misused, abused or trafficked. Even were she to be a sex worker; her age and the manner and means with which this was organized still leaves a case to answer, be it moral or legal. I think the focus on her character and background and that of her family is drawing on the age old Madonna vs harlot trope. But if you think you are being objective and fair-minded on the road to some greater understanding of the matter coz someone raked some crap up about her, have at it. It looks like false equivalence and sexism to me.

Better still, keep it simple: Epstein and Maxwell were the bad guys here. And Prince Andrew doesn‘t look like he behaved in a manner becoming of his station. The girl? We are only talking about here because of who they were. She was just an object that got used, then turned up when she was suppose to have been thrown away.
Yes, Epstein and Maxwell were the bad guys but they were not the only ones. I'll keep it simple as you have requested. Which part of "a 17 year old who is not trained as a physiotherapist, is hired as a masseuse by a multi millionaire bachelor" does not ring alarm bells ? If you think the accuser or her parents didn't suspect what she was getting into, then I have a bridge I can sell you. That doesn't excuse anything for a minute, but I do wonder how much she has made from selling stories on top of the half million she got for signing away her right to future legal action. I hope the US judge declares that contract to be void and the wheels of justice move forward with all involved having their day in court. Either way, she seems to be fixated on chasing money rather than justice.

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Old 6th Jan 2022, 09:47
  #244 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Then if he skimmed through it why was he put up for service and why was he elected to stand, do they ( the lawyers ) not have the option to chose or dismiss potential jurors pre trial as you see on TV?
Defence and prosecution lawyers can challenge potential jurors based either on pre-trial questioning or a questionnaire (which may not have been completed under supervision). It is unlikely that the defence would have any way of knowing that the juror had lied on the form without his subsequent comments and so would have had no reason to challenge his selection. Fairly clear grounds for a mistrial I would say.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 10:02
  #245 (permalink)  
 
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I always thought jury members were supposed to make their deliberations purely on the evidence presented in court, not the opinions of a fellow juror recounting stories from his past.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 11:39
  #246 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by k3k3 View Post
I always thought jury members were supposed to make their deliberations purely on the evidence presented in court, not the opinions of a fellow juror recounting stories from his past.
Normally the rule is that a juror cannot seek out or share evidence that the jury was not presented with in court. There are few rules on the nature of the discussion that the jury is allowed to have during their deliberations. There is certainly nothing preventing them from commenting on the evidence based on their own experience or expertise.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 12:04
  #247 (permalink)  
 
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Now there is a possibility of the Queen paying her off... SAD SAD times if that is true, and that just makes him guilty if it happens, you do not chuck millions at a problem unless it exists.

I wonder if she will get a badge to hang over her door like Harrods... By appointment to Her Majesty the Queen, perveyor of high price hookers.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...onward-journey
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 12:46
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Recc View Post
Normally the rule is that a juror cannot seek out or share evidence that the jury was not presented with in court. There are few rules on the nature of the discussion that the jury is allowed to have during their deliberations. There is certainly nothing preventing them from commenting on the evidence based on their own experience or expertise.
Agreed, it would be impossible not to rely on ones own experiences to some degree, even unconsciously.
The issue is to use an experience he didn't declare and which might cause some bias, to influence others.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 13:12
  #249 (permalink)  

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Still waiting for Judge Kaplan's "pretty soon" ruling, which in fact, is taking a pretty long time to be delivered !!
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 13:27
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"By appointment to her Majesty the Queen perveyor of high price hookers"

How perverse!
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 04:19
  #251 (permalink)  
 
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Now there is a possibility of the Queen paying her off
Once-upon-a-time, in fact not so long ago, they would just chop off her head. Saves in legal costs, It was also quite normal by both male/female members of high royalty to have their own concubines at the time.

Perhaps it would be cheaper if she just moved in with Andy...
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 05:39
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sultan Ismail View Post
"By appointment to her Majesty the Queen perveyor of high price hookers"

How perverse!
Didn't you mean "How purverse"
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 08:02
  #253 (permalink)  
 
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A new trial then? Where does she stay in the meantime? In Chokey and solitary or will it be back to France with her and a "We'll call you when we need you" type of thing?

Probably another year, one would imagine, before they can get it all rolling again.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 09:50
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tashengurt View Post
Agreed, it would be impossible not to rely on ones own experiences to some degree, even unconsciously.
The issue is to use an experience he didn't declare and which might cause some bias, to influence others.
I think that is the only thing the judge is looking at. Discussing it in the jury deliberations is fine. It’s the fact that in jury selection one of the first questions to be asked would have been something like “has anyone here been the victim of sexual abuse?” And anyone answering yes would have been dismissed for cause, not using one of the defence/prosecution’s challenges.

So first the judge needs to determine if the juror lied or misled, and if he finds they did then was it serious enough to warrant a mistrial.

Judges hate wasting jurors time so it will have to be pretty serious for him to set their verdict aside.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 10:01
  #255 (permalink)  
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Who picks up the tab for the re-trial ? The responsibility for the integrity of the jury must rest with the court so I can't see how the prosecution or defence can be expected to pay for the additional costs. I feel sorry for the US taxpayers.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 17:04
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B Fraser View Post
Who picks up the tab for the re-trial ? The responsibility for the integrity of the jury must rest with the court so I can't see how the prosecution or defence can be expected to pay for the additional costs. I feel sorry for the US taxpayers.
The taxpayers are always on the hook for trial costs (although the defendant sometimes gets nicked for 'court costs' if they lose). So if there is a retrial, the taxpayers will pay for it - although the legal costs to Maxwell are sure to be substantial.
Part of the debate regarding the death penalty is that it's so expensive to do the trial, inevitable appeals, etc. that it's cheaper for the taxpayers if they get life in prison than to pay all the legal costs of a death penalty trial.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 18:03
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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So they failed to pick the right guards for Epstein, to pick the right jury and to tell them the rules?
What is next? GM exchanged for Assange maybe?
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 18:31
  #258 (permalink)  
 
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Even if Kaplan declines to declare a mistrial, there's good odds the appeal court will order a new trial.

Will the witnesses want to go through it again? I have my doubts.

Oh yes, Kaplan won't be the judge next time around as she's been promoted to appeal court where she'll have to recuse herself from further hearings on Maxwell.

There will be horsetrading going on between Maxwell's lawyers and the DOJ.

Time served has become a possibility.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 22:24
  #259 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by visibility3miles View Post
Seventeen is on the cusp of “I know everything I need to know to get around independently in the big wide world” and “very naive.”

It’s well over the age you need to be to get legally married by your own consent in many parts of the United States and other parts of the world.
Really? I just looked it up and as of 2021 every state has a minimum age of 18 to marry without parental consent except Mississippi, where the age is 15, and Nebraska, where the age is 19.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 22:33
  #260 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
They are looking at appealing after a jurors comments that he was abused as a as a child and relating the story to the rest of the jury which swayed them to find a guilty.

Odd I thought that was what a jury was supposed to do, talk through a case and each one of them to put their point of view across until they reach a verdict. Would fellow jurors at a trial with a coloured Jury member listening to a case of racism not look to the thoughts of the coloured juror to get his insight? I would.
To take your example, it would be surprising if the opinion of the coloured juror was not be influenced by his/her own experiences of similar treatment. But for the rest of the jurors, these experiences would be anecdotal and not directly germane to the case - thus they should have been irrelevant to their own individual considerations since all jurors are required to render a judgement based solely on the evidence presented in court.



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