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German SAS Suspended Over Neo-NAZI Hoard

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German SAS Suspended Over Neo-NAZI Hoard

Old 1st Jul 2020, 06:16
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German SAS Suspended Over Neo-NAZI Hoard

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/g...onry-pnd2kzn0v

Germany’s SAS suspended after neo-Nazi soldiers hoard weaponry

Germany has suspended its troubled elite commando unit and will disband one of its companies as the defence ministry takes an “iron broom” to right-wing extremism in the ranks.

The Special Forces Command (KSK), notionally the German equivalent of the SAS, has been thrown into turmoil after some of its soldiers were found to have hoarded army-issue firearms, exchanged Hitler salutes and joined far-right messaging groups. It is believed to harbour five times the concentration of extremists found in the wider armed forces, known as the Bundeswehr.

The KSK will now be banned from operations and training exercises until at least October after military intelligence discovered that it had lost 62kg of high explosives and 48,000 rounds of ammunition.

Its Second Company, identified as a breeding ground of extremism, will be dissolved. The unit’s 70 soldiers, who are believed to account for about a quarter of the KSK’s regular fighting strength, will be individually investigated and only reassigned to other companies if they pass ideological muster.

New recruits face enhanced background checks while a review of the force as a whole will be overseen by a senior naval officer.....

Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, the defence minister, said that parts of the KSK had “taken on a separate identity of their own” because of a “toxic culture” in elements of its leadership. “It follows that the KSK cannot be allowed to continue in its current form,” she told the Süddeutsche Zeitung.

The reform was prompted by the arrest of a KSK sergeant major in Second Company who had stockpiled an assault rifle, smoke grenades and other explosives at his home in Saxony......

The Bundeswehr’s intelligence division, the MAD, said the KSK had fallen prey to a “new dimension” of extremism and that efforts to root it out had been frustrated by a “wall of silence”.

The force’s struggle with neo-Nazism and other extreme-right ideologies goes back more than a decade. In 2005 one of its former commanders, Reinhard Günzel, traced its warrior traditions back to the Nazi-era Wehrmacht. Last year a KSK lieutenant colonel, Daniel S, was stripped of his uniform for Facebook posts in which he endorsed tenets of the Imperial Citizens movement, which denies the legitimacy of Germany’s modern democratic state.

In May the KSK’s commander, Brigadier General Markus Kreitmayr, issued an extraordinary warning that his own force was in crisis.

Mrs Kramp-Karrenbauer’s attempt to purge the KSK was criticised as inadequate by Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann, the defence spokeswoman for the liberal Free Democratic party. She called for the KSK to be combined with the Bundeswehr’s other special forces and placed directly under the command of the defence ministry.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 06:24
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Ahh, but were they just following orders?
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 08:13
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Look who failed to deal with it while they were the minister in charge.

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Old 1st Jul 2020, 08:40
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Before we start becoming too sanctimonious and judgemental, let us consider the path taken by the Bundesrepublik since WWII. It totally renounced Nazism, and its military in particular jettisoned many of its traditions that had become associated with the Nazis but greatly predated them. The notable example of course was the lockstep, or goosestep, but some still remain like torchlit parades. If the ceremonial of the British Armed Forces, like Trooping the Colour for instance, were so scrapped it gives some idea of the depth of reform suffered. In contrast, the GDR kept all of the traditions going. Not so surprising as the regime itself kept on much of its predecessor's techniques for remaining in power.

Come unification it was the western model that prevailed, but many of the eastern attitudes were absorbed into national institutions, including the military. It is possible that is where the rot stemmed from that has infected the KSK, but at least reaction has been sure and certain. Would the British reaction have been so extensive? One remembers Deepcut and wonders...
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 09:52
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I agree. Under Von der Leyen, many traditions were consigned to the dustbin. The tradition of having a small degree of military capability being one of them. Never mind, none of their submarines are fit to go to sea but the army now have creche facilities..

https://www.ft.com/content/7ccc011a-...6-a4640c9feebb
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 10:21
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Originally Posted by Chugalug2 View Post
Come unification it was the western model that prevailed, but many of the eastern attitudes were absorbed into national institutions, including the military. It is possible that is where the rot stemmed from that has infected the KSK, but at least reaction has been sure and certain. Would the British reaction have been so extensive? One remembers Deepcut and wonders...
I wondered what became of former members of the GDR armed forces post reunification and happened upon this study. You will have to register to read it but it is worthwhile doing so.

YS
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 10:42
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Thanks YS. Have so registered. Thankfully they don't seem too fussy about the qualifying conditions to do so.

B Fraser, any chance to copy and paste the contents of your link here, as ORAC did for the OP?
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 10:53
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Very strange. If you google "Von der Leyen’s elevation sparks bafflement in Germany" then you can see the article. Clicking on my link takes you to a paywall. I do have an FT account but the article is interspersed with photos and callouts so would be a pain to copy. If you can't read it then let me know.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 11:05
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Your suggestion worked BF, thanks. Once again we see that Google is our friend!
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 11:13
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Originally Posted by Chugalug2 View Post
Before we start becoming too sanctimonious and judgemental, let us consider the path taken by the Bundesrepublik since WWII. It totally renounced Nazism, and its military in particular jettisoned many of its traditions that had become associated with the Nazis but greatly predated them. The notable example of course was the lockstep, or goosestep, but some still remain like torchlit parades. If the ceremonial of the British Armed Forces, like Trooping the Colour for instance, were so scrapped it gives some idea of the depth of reform suffered. In contrast, the GDR kept all of the traditions going. Not so surprising as the regime itself kept on much of its predecessor's techniques for remaining in power.

Come unification it was the western model that prevailed, but many of the eastern attitudes were absorbed into national institutions, including the military. It is possible that is where the rot stemmed from that has infected the KSK, but at least reaction has been sure and certain. Would the British reaction have been so extensive? One remembers Deepcut and wonders...
They purged out a lot of stuff at this point, wasn't it around this time that they removed Molders name plate from JG-74?

Pressure was also brought to bear around the same time, when she ordered all the Waffenampt acceptance marks, codes and such be removed from the ceremonial K98k's used by the Wachbataillon as seen in that torch light clip posted above.

The trouble is, the more you try and sweep stuff from history, the more the next generations of people will become interested in it.....its just human nature. Trying to pretend the German military has only existed since 1955 is pointless.
It's a difficult line to walk along though.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 15:31
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These gentlemen can be dressed with whatever is needed. They have any trade's uniforms in their lockers.
Crossdressers so to say.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 16:07
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Should you have a copy of Wings On My Sleeve by Capt. Eric Brown, the last 2 or 3 pages of chapter 19 are worth re-reading.

YS
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 18:30
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Originally Posted by Yellow Sun View Post
Should you have a copy of Wings On My Sleeve by Capt. Eric Brown, the last 2 or 3 pages of chapter 19 are worth re-reading.

YS
any chance of a brief synopsis?
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 18:46
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Originally Posted by Yellow Sun View Post
Should you have a copy of Wings On My Sleeve by Capt. Eric Brown, the last 2 or 3 pages of chapter 19 are worth re-reading.

YS
i was just thinking that. There will always be fanatics around where history is concerned. Saying that though we should still look at the tactics and ability of some of them as they were actually quite good.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 19:17
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Originally Posted by Cerney218 View Post
any chance of a brief synopsis?
In 1958 Brown was Head of the British Naval Air Mission And part of his brief was to provide assistance to the newly reformed Marinenflieger. One evening he was invited by senior wartime naval officer; by implication now an officer in the Marinenflieger; to a small club In Kiel used exclusively by former senior officers. During the evening the members trooped into a back room and filled with memorabilia where they gave the Nazi. salute to large photograph of Doenitz. Brown was appalled and made a report that resulted in the club being raided and shutdown.

YS
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 19:55
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I often wonder if Doenitz had a brother called Duncan ?

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Old 1st Jul 2020, 20:30
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Finnish Air Force removes blue swastika

After a century, the Finns have decided to remove their blue swastika Which ironically they had before the Nazis had it..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53249645
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 20:55
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Originally Posted by Yellow Sun View Post
In 1958 Brown was Head of the British Naval Air Mission And part of his brief was to provide assistance to the newly reformed Marinenflieger. One evening he was invited by senior wartime naval officer; by implication now an officer in the Marinenflieger; to a small club In Kiel used exclusively by former senior officers. During the evening the members trooped into a back room and filled with memorabilia where they gave the Nazi. salute to large photograph of Doenitz. Brown was appalled and made a report that resulted in the club being raided and shutdown.

YS
Do I recall that there was a plan to get rid of Hitler and replace him with Doenitz?
​​​​
I think that the German Navy were a bit of a law unto themselves. The book stopped with Doenitz rather than the NSDP leadership.

I'm reaching a bit with my memory here...
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 08:07
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Thanks YS.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 08:52
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Originally Posted by B Fraser View Post
I agree. Under Von der Leyen, many traditions were consigned to the dustbin. The tradition of having a small degree of military capability being one of them. Never mind, none of their submarines are fit to go to sea but the army now have creche facilities..

https://www.ft.com/content/7ccc011a-...6-a4640c9feebb
Ursula von der Leyen was probably handed the "defence parcel" when the music stopped at the wrong time. It's not only the submarines that don't work, there are or have been issues with Tornados in the Luftwaffe and tanks in the Bundeswehr; not to mention the (lack of) serviceability of the government transport fleet that has lead to Fr Merkel missing at the least the start of an international conference.

None of this happened when she took office, but we in all probability the result of years of under investment - Germany has more important priorities that the military, such as pensions and the welfare state - perhaps correctly. Von der Leyen comes across as very capable, I'd prefer to someone of her calibre in charge rather than the nincompoop we have in No.10.
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