Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK- A Long Hot Summer of Disorder

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK- A Long Hot Summer of Disorder

Old 27th Jun 2020, 10:16
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Southport
Posts: 1,114
20000 fewer police, similar reduction in prison officers. Justice is not cheap.....
andytug is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 10:29
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 349
You have hundreds/thousands of people penned up in an area with poor accommodation, little employment or prospects, and easily available drugs. Correctly or not, they perceive themselves to be unwanted by government and wider society.

Summer comes and they have a chance for some fun with a street party. Along come the police, representatives of the state that they believe rightly or wrongly to be responsible for their depressed condition. The police tell them to stop their party and go back into their miserable homes.

It's hardly surprising that those people turn on the police and vent their frustrations on them.

It seems there are are only two possible answers to this. One is to increase the numbers and equipment of the police to physically force those people back into their homes. The other is to change the condition of those people so that they do not need to be physically policed.

Given that all attempts over the years to apply the second method have failed, it looks like we are stuck with the first. It's not a happy prospect.
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 10:49
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Coasting South
Age: 65
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
It seems that there are some locations where violent mass gatherings are far more likely to occur, though. Brixton, for example, has been an area where things have kicked off many times over the years. I'm sure the police probably have a fair bit of knowledge as to where this sort of incident is likely to kick off, so having sufficient assets in the right place should be little different to ensuring there are enough suitably trained police officers available.
That covers the wheres, timing the whens is problematic. Should they be on permanent standby in the area? I doubt whether that would go down well with the locals.
hiflymk3 is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 11:08
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by hiflymk3 View Post
That covers the wheres, timing the whens is problematic. Should they be on permanent standby in the area? I doubt whether that would go down well with the locals.
Depends on what form effective equipment for riot control takes. Clearly there would be logistical problems with moving large vehicles around, especially in a city, but we don't seem to have too many issues with getting police officers on the ground, trained and equipped to use other riot control equipment.

The problem seems to be one of coming up with an effective crowd dispersal system, that poses a low risk of injury and that is relatively easy to deploy under challenging conditions. Perhaps we need to look at how technology that the police already use may be adapted to riot control. For example, the police seem to routinely use drones now, for both scenes of crime recording and searches. We're starting to see drones being used for parcel delivery trials, so perhaps it might be possible to adapt them to release a persistent, safe, malodorous agent, a bit like the Israeli Skunk system.

VP959 is online now  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 11:19
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: not scotland
Posts: 196
Originally Posted by ExSp33db1rd View Post
?? Brits. celebrate July 4th ?? First I've heard of it.
Pubs open in England. Not a celebration of the 4th.
Toadstool is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 14:09
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: EU
Posts: 141
All answered with just one word.... "OVERPOPULATION". Sort that and 95% of the other problems go with it!
happyjack is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 14:09
  #47 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,583
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...treet-22260482

Riot police disrupt Kilburn street party after warnings about heatwave gatherings
ORAC is online now  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 16:24
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,778
Originally Posted by El Grifo View Post
Wiggy has a point !
Where I live in the Spanish Territories, lockdown was obligatory from day one. The streets were empty for the first 2 weeks. For the next 2 weeks, different groups were allowed out at different times under rigid rules. Any infringment was met with a €300 fine.
El Grifo
It was only slightly more relaxed in France ..there was no mercy.

Interestingly in the early days of lockdown when I mentioned to someone in the UK that I had just been pulled over by the Gendarmes on my way to work for a check of ID, my reasons for travel and supporting attestation then after they lifted their jaw off the floor the comment was "Oooh, the police would never dare do that sort of thing here in the UK"...

Looks like they were right.

Last edited by wiggy; 27th Jun 2020 at 22:25.
wiggy is online now  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 19:42
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 396
Originally Posted by happyjack View Post
All answered with just one word.... "OVERPOPULATION". Sort that and 95% of the other problems go with it!
So Jack, are you going to do the decent thing? Or were you talking about some group that didnít involve you?
Torquetalk is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 22:32
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Smaller Antipode
Age: 85
Posts: 0
July 4th.
Inn Dependence Day. Sould become a bank holiday...
Sorry, my error. Obviously I know about Independence Day ! Just never considered that the present day Brits.even acknowledged it.
ExSp33db1rd is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 07:24
  #51 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 56
Posts: 6,696
I should have said July 4th ought to be a Public Holiday henceforth... (there's sort of two puns for the price of one there, two pints would be better of course).
treadigraph is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 07:32
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by happyjack View Post
All answered with just one word.... "OVERPOPULATION". Sort that and 95% of the other problems go with it!
Are you suggesting Covid-19 is a good thing then? A chicken and egg situation.
pilotmike is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 09:31
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Sabotage Central Office
Posts: 0
The date chosen is interesting, but considering our own Clown supreme's alleged admiration for the stable genius across the pond and the general alignment of the current crop of conservatives with the American right perhaps not surprising.
tbh, the connection makes me nauseous
Slaine is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 10:46
  #54 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,583
I see another left wing fantasist has joined us......
ORAC is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 11:05
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,302
I see another left wing fantasist has joined us......

Interesting mental process noticeable among those who feel that alternative views to their own (extremely limited versions) MUST be LEFT wing derived. Apart from the demonstrable past failure and present incompetence of their chosen version, any alternative, from any political background or none, would offer an improvement. The 'Left wing bogey man' must be a terrible mental construct to cause such inability to understand the widely varied make-up of fellow citizens.
Cornish Jack is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 22:03
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,924
The electorate were asked that just a few months ago, Cornish and overwhelmingly disagreed. Youíre entitled to your opinion of course​​​​​: if youíre upset by the concept of elections you could always move somewhere with a left-wing government like China or Venezuela where you wonít be troubled with them.
ShotOne is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 22:22
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Age: 49
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by M.Mouse View Post
What is needed is a few water cannon.........oh, I forgot we sold them after Theresa May would not allow them to be used.
Seriously? In the main the protesters, and or the other parties involved arenít causing any harm. There are a section of the population (aggravated by Covid lockdown) who are using this to just have fun. In my opinion the benefit abusing right wing travel to wherever there are events happening to cause havoc. Blasting everyone with a water cannon is a bit over the top. For sure arrest and prosecute anyone doing violence or criminal damage but water cannons are so broad
highflyer40 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 09:18
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,302
The electorate were asked that just a few months ago, Cornish and overwhelmingly disagreed.
Much has been written about the poor numeracy skills in British society but using political chicanery as a basis for electoral distortion is something quite different. Ass uming that you are reasonably numerate. you might care to research the actual votes cast totals and compare them with the 'system's' skewed evaluation. 'Hung Parliament' and 'Landslide Victory' are two quite different scenarios. The first was what the electorate voted for, the second was what they were 'given'.
I note your generous advice re. moving to improve my situation, but, like your numeracy skills, your para-normal talent for assessing other people's political leanings (if any) are similarly flawed. Always worthwhile making an effort to 'keep up'!
Cornish Jack is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 10:50
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
The electorate were asked that just a few months ago, Cornish and overwhelmingly disagreed. Youíre entitled to your opinion of course​​​​​: if youíre upset by the concept of elections you could always move somewhere with a left-wing government like China or Venezuela where you wonít be troubled with them.
Sadly, Cornish may find it somewhat difficult to move to a country that has a more democratic electoral system, rather than the travesty that is FPTP since many of those rather more desirable countries sit in an area where up until recently one could move freely, but that freedom has been denied us.

There's a quantum leap between the UK's democratically deficient electoral system that benefits only the two major parties; and Venezuela, China, Belarus etc where the concept of democracy of any sort, flawed or otherwise, is not recognised.
ATNotts is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2020, 12:07
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
'Hung Parliament' and 'Landslide Victory' are two quite different scenarios. The first was what the electorate voted for, the second was what they were 'given'.
With respect, there's no evidence that the electorate voted for a hung parliament (by which I mean specifically cast their vote in a manner calculated to deny any party a majority).

Some people struggle to differentiate between a democracy and an electoral system. The fact you don't like the latter doesn't mean the absence of the former.
Kev Agamemnon is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.