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UK- A Long Hot Summer of Disorder

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UK- A Long Hot Summer of Disorder

Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:41
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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When I was a student during WRAG Week some people managed to change the colour of a fountain in a certain shopping centre in Newcastle Purple. It looked very spectacular but unfortunately some people not the perpetrators decided they had to go for a swim. Said dye did not come off skin for about week, and clothes not at all. Said swimmers looked like walking talking Blueberries and seriously got the p**s taken out of them. So maybe chose a suitable shade for the Dye in your cannon but also make sure you do not mind your city being painted it.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 15:26
  #22 (permalink)  

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Yep, the lid is finally starting to lift as the pan boils over !
The heat applied over the last decade or so is converting into steam !
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 15:33
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The water cannons used by Belgian police, for example, have pressure controls so the claim that they're always dangerous doesn't hold water, so to speak. The adjustments range from giving someone a soaking to having them knocked down like skittles.
The police chiefs and government have to get a grip NOW. Hackneyed statements in the media such as: 'violence against police officers going about their duty is unacceptable and we will not tolerate this form of behaviour' come across as being delivered by some stuffy, cob-webbed grammar school headmaster crying wolf again.
The poor sods in the front line must be feeling pretty low at being made to look useless.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 20:36
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I read somewhere of a country that was spraying violent crowds with a non-toxic, semi-permanent, dye. That might go some way towards dissuading people from rioting, as those that had been involved would tend to stand out a bit for a week or two afterwards.
Given that this was Hong Kong, featured on every news bulletin for months in the recent past, perhaps it would be worth having an occasional glance at the television or listen to the radio!
Doing that, however, might negate the perceived value of water cannon - I seem to recall that they tended to make the protestors more irritated and increased attendance..
I fully understand the desperate plight of the Torygraph/Daily Fail consumer raging inwardly that 'something must be done'. Seems odd that the recent 'landslide' generating faith in the outstanding ability of Johnson to 'Get it Done!' has evaporated somewhat. Thinks, why does the late Robin Day's famous television interview with the, then, Secretary of State for Defence', John Nott, spring to mind?
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 20:44
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
I read somewhere of a country that was spraying violent crowds with a non-toxic, semi-permanent, dye. That might go some way towards dissuading people from rioting, as those that had been involved would tend to stand out a bit for a week or two afterwards.
Given that this was Hong Kong, featured on every news bulletin for months in the recent past, perhaps it would be worth having an occasional glance at the television or listen to the radio!
Doing that, however, might negate the perceived value of water cannon - I seem to recall that they tended to make the protestors more irritated and increased attendance..
I fully understand the desperate plight of the Torygraph/Daily Fail consumer raging inwardly that 'something must be done'. Seems odd that the recent 'landslide' generating faith in the outstanding ability of Johnson to 'Get it Done!' has evaporated somewhat. Thinks, why does the late Robin Day's famous television interview with the, then, Secretary of State for Defence', John Nott, spring to mind?
A bit of wider reading and education might be in order, before going to full, prejudicial , and more than a little bit stereotypical mind, rant-mode. A quick web search shows that dyed water has been used many times before the Hong Kong incident. It was used against demonstrators in Cape Town way back in 1989, for example. There are many other reported uses of dyed water sprays:

During the last 15 years, protesters in Hungary, Indonesia, Argentina, Malaysia, India and Israel have all been showered with coloured water. In Uganda last year pink dye was employed to humiliate protesters. In Israel, Palestinian rioters were sprayed deep blue, the colour of the Israeli flag. The Hungarian police use green, the Koreans orange. Indian police is particularly fond of purple.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 20:54
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It seems that Israel has come up with a non-toxic crowd dispersal spray system called, appropriately, Skunk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunk_(weapon)

“Imagine the worst, most foul thing you have ever smelled. An overpowering mix of rotting meat, old socks that haven’t been washed for weeks – topped off with the pungent waft of an open sewer. . .Imagine being covered in the stuff as it is liberally sprayed from a water cannon. Then imagine not being able to get rid of the stench for at least three days, no matter how often you try to scrub yourself clean.”
A reporter for Reuters described its effect in the following words:
Imagine taking a chunk of rotting corpse from a stagnant sewer, placing it in a blender and spraying the filthy liquid in your face. Your gag reflex goes off the charts and you can't escape, because the nauseating stench persists for days.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 20:57
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David Jamieson, police and crime commissioner for the West Midlands, described the upcoming summer holidays as a “ticking time bomb” in inner-city areas and cautioned: “We are not going to be able to arrest our way out of this unrest.“There is a real sense that there is calamity on its way, especially when the furlough scheme comes to an end, and you’ve got lots of young, low-paid workers whose jobs have disappeared,” he said. “There will be considerable unrest.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ernment-warned

Never mind getting worked up now about demos, raves and street parties...this started some time ago...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ief-constables

It's a pity the police and more importantly others in authority didn't, right from the start, demonstrate a hard line approach to those individuals who demonstrated a cavalier approach to lockdown and all that went with it....


Last edited by wiggy; 26th Jun 2020 at 21:10.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 21:21
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
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So maybe chose a suitable shade for the Dye in your cannon but also make sure you do not mind your city being painted it.
Mr Mac
But being that colour could also be a mark of solidarity. Better make sure it isnít a popular protest.

Bad stink could work the same way. If people tough it out, they could turn that method of control right around
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 21:37
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It was used against demonstrators in Cape Town way back in 1989,
... and the outcome in South Africa was ??? and the response in Hong Kong was???
I would respectfully suggest that in both cases the answer is the opposite of what was intended, though, perhaps, satisfying a visceral urge for 'doing something'. Not, perhaps, the most edifying characteristic of 'civilised' humans
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 21:39
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BJ missed a Churchill moment here.
"We shall fight them on the beaches..."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53190209
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 06:55
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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You just so know he would have wanted to have said that don't you !!
Cornish Jack
Totally agree with you on water canon by the way, I was just trying to lighten the mood, and I was aware of other countries using coloured dye for that purpose as I have seen it being used from a distance. If you really want crowd control, and appeal to Telegraph and Mail right wing how about the UK forming their own version of the French CRS but these institutions do come with baggage when used and its not always pretty !!
Cheers
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 07:01
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
It was used against demonstrators in Cape Town way back in 1989,
... and the outcome in South Africa was ??? and the response in Hong Kong was???
I would respectfully suggest that in both cases the answer is the opposite of what was intended, though, perhaps, satisfying a visceral urge for 'doing something'. Not, perhaps, the most edifying characteristic of 'civilised' humans
I agree that there are many cases where water cannon have been used as a "weapon of the state against the people", but there is a very big difference between trying to quell legitimate protest (such as the anti-apartheid protests in SA back in 1989) and trying to control violent rioting, with people being at risk of serious injury or death in mob fights.

In this case, what we're seeing isn't legitimate peaceful protest, it's violent gatherings of people intent on doing nothing more than fighting and smashing stuff up. I happen to think that mindless rioting is something that any decent society should try to control, for the benefit of society as a whole. What do you suggest when it comes to dealing with the violence that is the topic of this thread (and which doesn't seem related to peaceful protest in any form)?
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 07:18
  #33 (permalink)  

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It's a pity the police and more importantly others in authority didn't, right from the start, demonstrate a hard line approach to those individuals who demonstrated a cavalier approach to lockdown and all that went with it..
Wiggy has a point !
Where I live in the Spanish Territories, lockdown was obligatory from day one. The streets were empty for the first 2 weeks. For the next 2 weeks, different groups were allowed out at different times under rigid rules. Any infringment was met with a €300 fine. Supermarkets were open, but suppled gloves had to be worn and temperatures were taken. Only one person per houshold was allowed to shop and no more than one person was allowed per vehicle.
Even now masks must be carried at all times and worn inside all establishments apart from restaurants where tables are set 2 metres apart, outside terraces being used.
Those restrictions and more have meant that for three weeks now there have been zero new cases of Covid 19, all testing has been suspended and there are only 3 patients in hospital, suffering from secondary effects. The Covid Ward has been stood down.
What was referred to as lockdown in the UK was clearly only a lockdown in name only ! Advisory rather than Obligatory !

Biggest mistake the Government made !!

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Old 27th Jun 2020, 07:26
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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These street parties are ad-hoc events. The police would have to have a lot of water cannons deployed everywhere ready to break them up.
Rain and cooler temperatures would prevent these parties and beach invasions.
Anyone for a rain dance?
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:09
  #35 (permalink)  
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53188547

Notting Hill: Police officers attacked at illegal street party

https://news.sky.com/story/bottles-t...party-12015729

Bottles thrown at police as another London street party turns ugly

https://www.scmp.com/sport/football/...tions-not-safe

Liverpool fans’ Premier League title celebrations ‘not safe’ with coronavirus ‘a real risk’ as mayor considers curfew


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Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:12
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The simplest way of dealing with these groups is to kettle them into an area.
Landrovers as the lynchpin with Police and shields to the sides.
The crowd quickly learns that it is futile to attack the barriers and quickly calms down and a surge of frustration.

The crowd then subdues the trouble makers and after an hour, you can start filtering through the people who just want to get out of there.
The remnants are the idiots who aren't going to give up, so you either go in and arrest them or pack up and leave - that usually takes the wind out of their sails - they hate being ignored.
Any that are wanted trying to escape through the filtering process can then be arrested.
Also has the benefit of containing the damage and captures the journalists and photographers that are stoking the unrest. They will not want to be caught up in that nonsense again.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:13
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Originally Posted by hiflymk3 View Post
These street parties are ad-hoc events. The police would have to have a lot of water cannons deployed everywhere ready to break them up.
Rain and cooler temperatures would prevent these parties and beach invasions.
Anyone for a rain dance?
It seems that there are some locations where violent mass gatherings are far more likely to occur, though. Brixton, for example, has been an area where things have kicked off many times over the years. I'm sure the police probably have a fair bit of knowledge as to where this sort of incident is likely to kick off, so having sufficient assets in the right place should be little different to ensuring there are enough suitably trained police officers available.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:51
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What do you suggest when it comes to dealing with the violence that is the topic of this thread (and which doesn't seem related to peaceful protest in any form)?
If, that was a serious question, the obvious starting point is at the top! I have offered my views on that area sufficiently often, so let's consider what history tells us. The authorities have had to deal with troublesome gatherings for centuries, so there should be no lack of examples of effective practice. That can range from Hilda's conversion of the police into a militia, to the more 'technical' approach advocated by Spunky Monkey. It would be nice to think that those charged with maintaining Law and Order would encompass a few with the potential to develop new tactics but, if it works ,,,
The caveats, of course, are that - a). the 'kill, them, shoot them, hang them devotees' won't 'get their kicks' and b). our recent years of governance have reduced the available police numbers.
The happy band who supported this culling of Public Services, generally, are now well to the fore in whingeing about the (entirely predictable) results. Unsurprisingly, they now favour a demonstrably stupid method of dealing with a situation which is far beyond the Public Order difficulties which their myopic view presents to them.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 09:48
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I'm praying for rain for July 4th.
?? Brits. celebrate July 4th ?? First I've heard of it.
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Old 27th Jun 2020, 09:50
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Originally Posted by ExSp33db1rd View Post
?? Brits. celebrate July 4th ?? First I've heard of it.
Inn Dependence Day. Sould become a bank holiday...
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