Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0

Old 1st Jul 2020, 03:14
  #1001 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
I couldn't resist.
He made me do it!
obgraham is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 04:17
  #1002 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
I couldn't resist.
He made me do it!

There goes the neighborhood, wait, there isn’t anything left to go.

Waiting for the cork popping to begin, hammock and beer ready.

All this intense hatred of one man you’ve probably all never met can’t be healthy for you, but it sure does beat watching reruns on tv for me.
Its all free too!

En garde!
fltlt is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 04:57
  #1003 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Yakima
Posts: 150
Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
What about men, Winemaker? Same rules?
In your dreams ob.....
Winemaker is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 05:00
  #1004 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Yakima
Posts: 150
On another topic, Susan Rice's op-ed in the New York Times just now calling, as far as I can see, the president a traitor. Interesting reading.

Since at least February, and possibly as early as March 2019, the United States has had compelling intelligence that a committed adversary, Russia, paid bounties to Taliban-linked fighters to kill American troops in Afghanistan. American service members were reportedly killed as a result.

To this day, the president of the United States has done nothing about it.

Instead, President Trump dismissed the intelligence as not “credible” and “possibly another fabricated Russia hoax, maybe by the Fake News” that is “wanting to make Republicans look bad!!!”

Mr. Trump also claimed that neither he nor Vice President Mike Pence was ever told about this critical intelligence before it was first reported in The New York Times. Setting aside for a moment the credulity of that claim, whenever the president learned of this deeply troubling intelligence, why did he not publicly condemn any Russian efforts to kill American soldiers and explore options for a swift and significant U.S. response?

None of this adds up.

As a former national security adviser, I find it exceedingly difficult to believe that no one told Mr. Trump about this intelligence.

It was reportedly contained in the president’s daily briefing, which is provided to all top-level national security officials. Even if Mr. Trump does not bother regularly to read the daily briefing, we must assume others do. If the president’s senior advisers — Robert O’Brien, the national security adviser; Richard Grenell, who stepped down in May as acting director of national intelligence; and Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, among others — thought it was unnecessary to inform the commander in chief of this life-or- death matter, then they are not worthy of service.

White House officials claim that it would be improper to inform the president of such information until it is fully verified and options for the U.S. response had been prepared. Yet, the administration reportedly informed the British government, and the National Security Council convened an interagency meeting in March to discuss the intelligence and its implications.

Here’s what should have happened. Had I, as national security adviser, received even “raw” reporting that Russia was paying to kill U.S. service members, I would have walked straight into the Oval Office to brief the president.

Contrary to the spin-masters in the White House today, I would not have waited until we had absolute certainty. I would have said, “Mr. President, I want to make sure you are aware that we have troubling reporting that Russia is paying the Taliban to kill our forces in Afghanistan. I will work with the intelligence community to ensure the information is solid. In the meantime, I will convene the national security team to get you some options for how to respond to this apparent major escalation in Russia’s hostile actions.”

If later the president decided, as Mr. Trump did, that he wanted to talk with President Vladimir Putin of Russia at least six times over the next several weeks and invite him to join the Group of 7 summit over the objections of our allies, I would have thrown a red flag: “Mr. President, I want to remind you that we believe the Russians are killing American soldiers. This is not the time to hand Putin an olive branch. It’s the time to punish him.”

This is what would have happened in any prior administration of either political party.

That it apparently did not is deeply troubling and raises myriad questions. If Mr. Trump was told about Russian actions, why did he not respond? If he was not told, why not? Are his top advisers utterly incompetent? Are they too scared to deliver bad news to Mr. Trump, particularly about Russia? Is Mr. Trump running a rogue foreign policy utterly divorced from U.S. national interests? If so, why?

A perilous pattern persists that underscores Mr. Trump’s strange propensity to serve Russian interests above America’s. Recall that, during his 2016 campaign, Mr. Trump publicly urged Russia to hack Hillary Clinton’s emails and praised WikiLeaks for publishing stolen documents.

He denied and dismissed Russian interference in the 2016 election, then took Mr. Putin at his word at a Helsinki meeting while undercutting the U.S. intelligence community, and obstructed the Mueller investigation and distorted its findings. Mr. Trump recklessly removed U.S. troops from northern Syria and allowed Russian forces to take over American bases.

Next, Mr. Trump unilaterally invited Mr. Putin to attend the Group of 7 meeting, a move that apparently upended the organization’s annual summit. Subsequently, without any consultation, Mr. Trump announced his decision to remove nearly a third of U.S. troops from Germany — a sudden and inexplicable withdrawal that weakens the U.S.-German relationship and harms NATO, while benefiting Russia.

Most recently, we have learned that even Russian efforts to slaughter American troops in cold blood do not faze this president. Mr. Trump brushes off the information, evades responsibility and fails to take action — not even lodging a diplomatic protest. Now Mr. Putin knows he can kill Americans with impunity.

What must we conclude from all this? At best, our commander in chief is utterly derelict in his duties, presiding over a dangerously dysfunctional national security process that is putting our country and those who wear its uniform at great risk. At worst, the White House is being run by liars and wimps catering to a tyrannical president who is actively advancing our arch adversary’s nefarious interests.

Susan E. Rice (@AmbassadorRice), the national security adviser from 2013 to 2017 and a former United States ambassador to the United Nations, is a contributing opinion writer. She is the author of the memoir, “Tough Love: My Story of the Things Worth Fighting For.”
Winemaker is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 07:07
  #1005 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
So are you trying to tell me that Obama's staff doesn't like the folks that came after them?

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
obgraham is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 07:37
  #1006 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
Age: 68
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
answer to your question about discussing politics ... no problem at all, except you may turn a friend into a combatant with a long memory.

Best to try it in a pub where you have enough friends on your side to discourage punches thrown after nasty words are exchanged. Even a better idea to discuss on a board where the rules prohibit punches thrown
s
If a friend turns into an enemy due differences in politics, he was not a friend in the first place. I know that amongst our friends there are voters of at least 6 political parties. Politics and religion often leads to heated discussions when we meet, so what, that's what friends are for.
Per
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 07:47
  #1007 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner View Post
If a friend turns into an enemy due differences in politics, he was not a friend in the first place. I know that amongst our friends there are voters of at least 6 political parties. Politics and religion often leads to heated discussions when we meet, so what, that's what friends are for.
Per
In Viking land and former cViking land there is choice and spread. The multi party systems we have in 'Europe' lead to variety in debate amongst friends. The US option is 'For/Against'. That's when it gets nasty.

Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
So are you trying to tell me that Obama's staff doesn't like the folks that came after them?

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
As an outsider looking in, I'm shocked. Is the US in melt down?

Both parties in that motor fest could use the exercise by actually marching ​​​​​​​
Islandlad is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 09:03
  #1008 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Eastern Cape, South Africa
Posts: 101
With forecasts of 100 000 cases a day in the USA, how long before Trump calls for the election to be postponed, at least until his opinion polls improve?
ATSA1 is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 13:47
  #1009 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,840
Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
So are you trying to tell me that Obama's staff doesn't like the folks that came after them?

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
That and she is angling for the VP position. That article was written for an audience of 1, Biden.
West Coast is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 14:07
  #1010 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,504
Originally Posted by ATSA1 View Post
With forecasts of 100 000 cases a day in the USA, how long before Trump calls for the election to be postponed, at least until his opinion polls improve?
He can call for a postponement all he wants, there’s zero chance of a Democrat controlled House passing the required legislation to change Election Day.
dr dre is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 14:12
  #1011 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,504
Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
That and she is angling for the VP position. That article was written for an audience of 1, Biden.
Her choice as running mate would ensure Republicans in one unanimous voice get to cry again about one of their favourite topics - BENGHAZI!!!!!
dr dre is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 14:52
  #1012 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by ATSA1 View Post
With forecasts of 100 000 cases a day in the USA, how long before Trump calls for the election to be postponed, at least until his opinion polls improve?
Amazes me, in this day and age, that with all of our supposed advanced technical/medical wizardry, that we appear to have no idea when the virus first arrived here in the US, in any form, trace/mild/full blown. How many folks have had it, for how long, with little to no effect on their personal well being, apart from the fact perhaps it was thrown in with the cold/flu season.
The testing seems to be along the same lines, are the positive results/numbers from full blown cases, or minor aches and pains then gone.
All I see is the number of deaths attributed to it, but then again some of those may be subjective, especially in the early stages.
Not one of the health care systems have so far been overwhelmed, is that by taking precautions, luck, or the nature of the virus?
it seems the drastic, dramatic, draconian need for ventilators has faded away, reduced perhaps by better than knee jerk reaction treatments that, in hindsight, were not totally appropriate.
Im just a regular guy, but these seemingly large numbers shouted in the headlines don’t really make any sense to me.
If one posted the running totals for cancer, in all it’s ugly permutations, heart disease, old age, even the normal strains of flu, the current Covid numbers pale in comparison.
However in the current climate sensationalism is the currency of the day.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Your mileage may vary

fltlt is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 18:25
  #1013 (permalink)  
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,778
Originally Posted by fltlt View Post
Amazes me, in this day and age, that with all of our supposed advanced technical/medical wizardry, that we appear to have no idea ...
Just my 2 cents worth.

Your mileage may vary
Well, you have actually identified the single most critical principle of controlling and eliminating a pandemic. Test and trace. It's as simple as that. If you do not have a cohesive and comprehensive NATIONAL strategy for testing and tracing, your numbers are largely meaningless and open to question or manipulation - on both sides of the debate. We aren't comparing apples with oranges between states, we are comparing apples with car tires. The solution is to establish a Federal agency responsible for controlling disease, ideally base them somewhere like Georgia perhaps, and then give then a clear mandate, oh, let's say something like:

Using Science and Innovation to Prevent, Detect, and Respond

A Bold Promise to the Nation



With this strategic framework, CDC commits to save American lives by securing global health, ensuring domestic preparedness, eliminating disease, and ending epidemics.

If only we had such an organization we could use...

Two's in is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 18:27
  #1014 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 62
Posts: 5,674
While it would not surprise me to learn that Russians pay a bounty to Taliban to kill Americans, or have been, I think that the joke is on the Russians.
They are paying people for what they are doing anyway.
Since about 2001/2002, I don't think that the Taliban needed any incentive other than "Americans are in Afghanistan" to try to kill them.
Not sure what has changed recently, if anything.

It strikes me as a credible thing. Lots of old Soviet and KGB hands remain in Russia.
I suspect many of them harbor ill will towards Americans over our support against them in the 80's in Afghanistan. Pay back is a bitch, and all that.
As to what President Trump's reaction to that ought to be my take is that he ought to at least go on a rant on Twitter about it.
He does that for almost everything else.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 20:12
  #1015 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 487
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
While it would not surprise me to learn that Russians pay a bounty to Taliban to kill Americans, or have been, I think that the joke is on the Russians.
They are paying people for what they are doing anyway.
Since about 2001/2002, I don't think that the Taliban needed any incentive other than "Americans are in Afghanistan" to try to kill them.
Not sure what has changed recently, if anything.

It strikes me as a credible thing. Lots of old Soviet and KGB hands remain in Russia.
I suspect many of them harbor ill will towards Americans over our support against them in the 80's in Afghanistan. Pay back is a bitch, and all that.
As to what President Trump's reaction to that ought to be my take is that he ought to at least go on a rant on Twitter about it.
He does that for almost everything else.
Good points Lone.

Given the amount of hardware destroyed by weapons supplied covertly to the mujahideen by the US, along with the Russian occupants of that hardware, getting all shocked and outraged is quite hypocritical.
Torquetalk is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 20:47
  #1016 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 62
Posts: 5,674
Torque:
Heh, it looks like The Great Game all over again, except its US rather than the British Empire.
Related article is here.

Interesting item in that article in re the Russians having an Anti-ISIS take on the whole thing.

As to "shock and outrage" I tend to look at things through the lens of realpolitik. It's a handy tool, that lens. The media are so far gone from being anything other than a noise generator that one has to look farther afield to find good nuggets to work with. They are long on emotion and opinion, short on facts, in far too many cases.
At least the weather reports are usually based around facts, so they have that going for them.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2020, 22:05
  #1017 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by Two's in View Post
Well, you have actually identified the single most critical principle of controlling and eliminating a pandemic. Test and trace. It's as simple as that. If you do not have a cohesive and comprehensive NATIONAL strategy for testing and tracing, your numbers are largely meaningless and open to question or manipulation - on both sides of the debate. We aren't comparing apples with oranges between states, we are comparing apples with car tires. The solution is to establish a Federal agency responsible for controlling disease, ideally base them somewhere like Georgia perhaps, and then give then a clear mandate, oh, let's say something like:

Using Science and Innovation to Prevent, Detect, and Respond

A Bold Promise to the Nation



With this strategic framework, CDC commits to save American lives by securing global health, ensuring domestic preparedness, eliminating disease, and ending epidemics.

If only we had such an organization we could use...
Thats all well and good. However in this day and age of mass transit around the globe, nasty stuff can, and appears to have done so, arrive at multiple points before anyone has an inkling.
If indeed this new one only gave mild symptoms that can be mistaken for coughs/colds/ malingering crud that abound in a normal cold and flu season, then it probably would be dismissed as such by however many actually were infected.
It would seem possible that within 60 days or so you could have thousands, if not hundreds of thousands infected, the medical community only realizing something out of the ordinary this way comes when normal treatments don’t work.
At this point you could be 4-6 months on, with no way to identify unless you can pin down what it actually is.
I have no idea how you get around that.
fltlt is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2020, 01:01
  #1018 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Yakima
Posts: 150
All I see is the number of deaths attributed to it, but then again some of those may be subjective....
The only way to really know the death rate is by looking at excess mortality, deaths above normal averages. From some of the early data there seems to be a significant increase in the death rate; we'll only know for sure after this is over. My understanding is that about 42% of the deaths are in older persons nursing homes; I don't recall the age ranges. Here in Yakima, 18% of the cases are in the over 60 years old age bracket, the over 60 age group accounts for 91% of the deaths; this data is from the Yakima Health District reporting site. The under 50 age group has 68% of the cases and 6% of the deaths. 97% of the deaths are attributed to person with underlying health conditions.

Edited to correct that 42% of deaths were in nursing homes. Sorry.

Last edited by Winemaker; 2nd Jul 2020 at 01:45.
Winemaker is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2020, 01:02
  #1019 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Yakima
Posts: 150
Russia, the gift that keeps on giving!
Winemaker is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2020, 01:17
  #1020 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by Winemaker View Post
The only way to really know the death rate is by looking at excess mortality, deaths above normal averages. From some of the early data there seems to be a significant increase in the death rate; we'll only know for sure after this is over. My understanding is that about 42% of the deaths are in older persons; I don't recall the age ranges. Here in Yakima, 18% of the cases are in the over 60 years old age bracket, the over 60 age group accounts for 91% of the deaths; this data is from the Yakima Health District reporting site. The under 50 age group has 68% of the cases and 6% of the deaths. 97% of the deaths are attributed to person with underlying health conditions.
And the next contestant please:

The virus, called G4 EA H1N1 Is a genetic mix of the “swine flu,” which caused the 2009 pandemic, and other flu viruses.
Study published Monday in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found evidence that G4 EA H1N1 has infected workers on pig farms in China. But importantly, there is no indication that the virus spreads from person to person, according to CNN.
According to the BBC, the virus is not an immediate health threat, however, controlling it in pig populations and monitoring for signs of it in humans “should be urgently implemented.”
fltlt is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.