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US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0

Old 14th Jan 2021, 13:31
  #6441 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
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I don't think the problem is what orders he might make, it's what a group of his most fervent supporters will do. We saw an example of that on Jan 6th.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 13:46
  #6442 (permalink)  
 
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ONB

Your point is well made.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 14:05
  #6443 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
What can you say about a state that extinguishes its citizens?
Perhaps the best one can say, without irony, is life expectancy on death row for these hapless aberrations may be longer than the alternative of an impoverished hopeless existence living on the streets of the "greatest country in the world". A country which spends more on military defence than all its major allies and enemies combined.
Mjb
She was executed in breech of The Eighth Amendment which prohibits executing a prisoner who cannot rationally understand why they are to be executed.

She was also deprived of her spiritual adviser. It was a needless indignity, and a deprivation of really her basic humanity. That in her final moments they tried to take her sense of herself as a loved child of God is an insult beyond comprehension.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/lisa-montg...182442353.html

I am so glad I am not an American, it would be too embarrassing and shameful. Hang your heads in shame USA


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Old 14th Jan 2021, 14:53
  #6444 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Yakima
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I am so glad I am not an American, it would be too embarrassing and shameful. Hang your heads in shame USA
Well I'm an American and have no reason to 'hang my head in shame' as I've been an active and vocal opponent of Trump and the republicans. There is a segment of American that is shameful, but not all of us are; Biden got 7 million more votes than Trump and soundly beat him in the electoral college. People like slimy lizard man Ted Cruz are the ones who are shameful and should be removed from office and the people who attacked our government should be charged with sedition and, on conviction, jailed. Make no mistake, most of us are pretty pissed about what's happening.

Edited to add: I may have misunderstood the remark; I thought it was referring to the recent incidents in D.C., not the execution.

Last edited by Winemaker; 14th Jan 2021 at 21:08. Reason: clarity
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 15:08
  #6445 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
What can you say about a state that extinguishes its citizens?
Perhaps the best one can say, without irony, is life expectancy on death row for these hapless aberrations may be longer than the alternative of an impoverished hopeless existence living on the streets of the "greatest country in the world". A country which spends more on military defence than all its major allies and enemies combined.
Mjb
You can say there are two sides to every story, here is the other-side to this story:

Lisa Montgomery killed 23-year-old Bobbie Jo Stinnett in the northwest Missouri town of Skidmore in 2004. She used a rope to strangle Stinnett, who was eight months pregnant, and then cut the baby girl from the womb with a kitchen knife. Montgomery took the child with her and attempted to pass the girl off as her own. Montgomery drove about 170 miles (274 kilometers) from her Melvern, Kansas, farmhouse to the northwest Missouri town of Skidmore under the guise of adopting a rat terrier puppy from Stinnett. Prosecutors said Stinnett regained consciousness and tried to defend herself as Montgomery cut the baby girl from her womb. Later that day, Montgomery called her husband from Topeka, Kansas, telling him she had delivered the baby earlier in the day at a birthing center.

The motive was that Montgomery’s ex-husband knew she had undergone a tubal ligation that made her sterile and planned to reveal she was lying about being pregnant in an effort to get custody of two of their four children. Needing a baby before a fast-approaching court date, Montgomery turned her focus on Stinnett, whom she had met at dog shows.

Details of the crime at times left jurors in tears during her trial.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 18:16
  #6446 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 171
Winemaker -
No one has said she what she did was not utterly abhorrent and wicked; what we are saying is that no humane society should execute the mentally ill. Even America recognises this with The Eighth Amendment but on this occasion, has chosen to ignore it.

My American uncle and his wife are supporters $$$$$ of the Democrats and are decent folk, as I am sure you are too. What all decent Americans need to do, is persuade the decent Republican supporters to convince the Republican Senators to convict Trump and be done with him.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 18:55
  #6447 (permalink)  
 
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Turbine D

Really doesn't matter how bad the person or how abhorrent the crime it boils down to whether your comfortable with the death penalty.

A lot of people are not, but I grant you there are many, on both sides of the Atlantic who are.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 19:59
  #6448 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
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Originally Posted by Winemaker View Post
Well I'm an American and have no reason to 'hang my head in shame' as I've been an active and vocal opponent of Trump and the republicans. There is a segment of American that is shameful, but not all of us are; Biden got 7 million more votes than Trump and soundly beat him in the electoral college. People like slimy lizard man Ted Cruz are the ones who are shameful and should be removed from office the people who attacked our government should be charged with sedition and, on conviction, jailed. Make no mistake, most of us are pretty pissed about what's happening.
I hear what you're saying. But we seem to be oblivious to a much larger than estimated movement which runs contrary to your ideology.
Texas had a chance to get rid of Cruz two years ago. Yet here he is, occupying a Senate seat. And this is a person who is almost equally despised by Dems and Reps.
The Mitch whose sole motive was to be an obstructionist. Graham who has unabashedly been at the side of the Chief no matter the circumstances. Both of these loyalists held onto their seats just two months ago.
74m citizens voted for the orange peel. That is not insignificant. I would not call it a segment. We have consistently dismissed a major portion of that populace as a 'fringe movement'. We need to acknowledge that they are a force to reckon with and through cultish devotion are realistically a more potent force than a relatively passive and fractious left.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 20:27
  #6449 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I am curious!

As Trump has been impeached, does he still possess any powers until his term is finished?
Apparently the nuclear buttons are out of reach, but could he instigate pardons for example?
If so, then he could pardon part (or all!), of those behind bars?
And are pardons effective immediately? (But subject to the paperwork I guess).

Thanks for any advice.

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Old 14th Jan 2021, 20:33
  #6450 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I am working on the assumption that the only reason Pence has not resigned, is to ensure that there is someone in the White House that would invoke the 25th Amendment, if Trump decided to do something realy stupid, like nuke North Korea and not one one of his acolytes that he appointed to replace Pence, that would along with it.

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Old 14th Jan 2021, 20:54
  #6451 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Far East
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by No Headroom View Post
I am curious!

As Trump has been impeached, does he still possess any powers until his term is finished?
Apparently the nuclear buttons are out of reach, but could he instigate pardons for example?
If so, then he could pardon part (or all!), of those behind bars?
And are pardons effective immediately? (But subject to the paperwork I guess).

Thanks for any advice.
Impeachment is just step 1. This does not change anything. Read about it
He is still Commander and can use nuclear weapons. But some safeguards limit this power (any US presidents' power)
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 22:19
  #6452 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WB627 View Post
I am working on the assumption that the only reason Pence has not resigned, is to ensure that there is someone in the White House that would invoke the 25th Amendment, if Trump decided to do something realy stupid, like nuke North Korea and not one one of his acolytes that he appointed to replace Pence, that would along with it.
Any aggressive militaristic act ordered by Trump, in the absence of threat would be regarded by the military as illegal. There is no big red button at the bedside. Except in Spitting Image!

CG
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 22:35
  #6453 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Any aggressive militaristic act ordered by Trump, in the absence of threat would be regarded by the military as illegal. There is no big red button at the bedside. Except in Spitting Image!

CG
Two man rule.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 22:41
  #6454 (permalink)  
 
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20,000 National Guard in D.C. Everyone saying - that's some great security there for an inauguration.
Given the makeup of the previous mob and some of the arrests so far, some what you would normally consider 'normal folks', I regret having to wonder about the possibility of torn loyalties in the Guard, who are mostly weekend soldiers drawn from normal folks, in the acid test days to come.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 22:45
  #6455 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
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I think the US needs to stand back and consider where this is heading (we ain't seen nutting yet)

Consider that we have three branches of government make us a nation

The legislative branch (House of Reprs and Senate), The executive branch (trump and all his cabinet and the judicial branch (SCOTUS) all equally balanced??
From the outside looking in (as a voter) it looks like a badly skewed (democratic led) part of the legislative branch jumped on the latest mis-speak of the president and drove through formal articles of impeachment (indictment) not once but twice by only a majority vote. While still in the legislative branch, it's now up to the senate to authorize these articles and if so to remove the president from office, Now just how is this going to resolve things where it is likely the president will not even be in office by the time the senate acts??

So is it a moot point equiv to a mock trial with the accused not present? Now it has been suggested that a fitting punishment would be to at least ban him from running for office again because we're afraid that enough voters might still like to be led by him. This is a unique form of punishment that is convenient for both the senate jury members who want a cleared path to their own nominations without the blonde hair one sucking off votes.

So do we really have a blindfold statue of liberty balance or do we need SCOTUS in all this to judge whether a law has actually been broken?

If we can't balance the scales between the legislative and executive branches, with SCOTUS sitting on their hands we must expect more riots to decide who is actually running the government,

We need to get off this punishment kick and badmouthing a single branch of govenrment (POTUS) and back to the laws under the constitution. Don't be misled by outside nations and their perceptions, this is our nation so for Gods sake protect it from inside first
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 22:58
  #6456 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Norwich
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
I think the US needs to stand back and consider where this is heading (we ain't seen nutting yet)

Consider that we have three branches of government make us a nation

The legislative branch (House of Reprs and Senate), The executive branch (trump and all his cabinet and the judicial branch (SCOTUS) all equally balanced??
From the outside looking in (as a voter) it looks like a badly skewed (democratic led) part of the legislative branch jumped on the latest mis-speak of the president and drove through formal articles of impeachment (indictment) not once but twice by only a majority vote. While still in the legislative branch, it's now up to the senate to authorize these articles and if so to remove the president from office, Now just how is this going to resolve things where it is likely the president will not even be in office by the time the senate acts??

So is it a moot point equiv to a mock trial with the accused not present? Now it has been suggested that a fitting punishment would be to at least ban him from running for office again because we're afraid that enough voters might still like to be led by him. This is a unique form of punishment that is convenient for both the senate jury members who want a cleared path to their own nominations without the blonde hair one sucking off votes.

So do we really have a blindfold statue of liberty balance or do we need SCOTUS in all this to judge whether a law has actually been broken?

If we can't balance the scales between the legislative and executive branches, with SCOTUS sitting on their hands we must expect more riots to decide who is actually running the government,

We need to get off this punishment kick and badmouthing a single branch of govenrment (POTUS) and back to the laws under the constitution. Don't be misled by outside nations and their perceptions, this is our nation so for Gods sake protect it from inside first
Your enemies are inside, not external like myself. I have nothing against the United States, but my trips there, I have drunk and chatted to the poorer people. Stacy from Ak that mentioned that 40% of her states people lived below the bread line. 1998, one can blame the previous impeached President.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 23:33
  #6457 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
20,000 National Guard in D.C. Everyone saying - that's some great security there for an inauguration.
Given the makeup of the previous mob and some of the arrests so far, some what you would normally consider 'normal folks', I regret having to wonder about the possibility of torn loyalties in the Guard, who are mostly weekend soldiers drawn from normal folks, in the acid test days to come.
Here ya go:

Two Virginia police officers charged in connection with the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol have military backgrounds -- with one still serving as a corporal in the National Guard. Jacob Fracker, an infantryman with the Virginia National Guard who previously served as a Marine, and Thomas Robertson, an Army veteran, were arrested in Virginia on Wednesday
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Old 15th Jan 2021, 00:28
  #6458 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Any aggressive militaristic act ordered by Trump, in the absence of threat would be regarded by the military as illegal. There is no big red button at the bedside. Except in Spitting Image!

CG
You know this how?
West Coast is online now  
Old 15th Jan 2021, 00:33
  #6459 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Norwich
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
You know this how?
Two man rule perhaps.
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Old 15th Jan 2021, 02:26
  #6460 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by Non Linear Gear View Post
Two man rule perhaps.

If you’re an 03 sitting in a silo.
West Coast is online now  

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