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US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0

Old 4th Jun 2020, 11:09
  #381 (permalink)  
 
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And they hide in the toilet when the going gets rough.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 11:48
  #382 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by brokenagain View Post
And he is being ABSOLUTELY ROASTED on his twitter posts regarding Mattis, he will be furiously banging in his little orange fists on the desk in the bunker while reading them.
That will be the bunker he says he never ran too, but only popped down to inspect it..
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 11:59
  #383 (permalink)  
 
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One does wonder her views if it was happening here, at the end of the day they are trying to restore law and order where rioting etc is taking place, the peaceful marches appear to be just that.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-06-02/...ys-thornberry/
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 13:08
  #384 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uncle Fred View Post
Pattern, I always appreciate your insight, but think that in this case you might be a bit too sanguine. I fear the damage Trump could render, should he get pipped, between election day and when the new POTUS is sworn in. Pardons, executive orders, flailing and wailing...the chaos could be deep and long lasting.
Yeah, he could try and drop a few poison pills on the way out.
@Lonewolf, what do you think of Jack Dorsey taking the step of shutting Trump's Twitter account down?
I don't really know what to think about that, but I also do not feel that the President ought to be in the ditch wrestling with pigs, which is what I think his Twitter adventures since he took office have been a case of.
Not there has been any evidence of this being planned or considered, but the tweets seemingly do affect foreign policy in at least the sense that allies have no idea what is going on or what to expect.
One of many reasons that I found/find communications by Twitter to be a poor tool for that particular office.
We know that diplomatic relations often move, for many reasons (some quite good and understandable) at a VERY measured pace. While that might look inefficient to an outsider, it has a rhyme or reason that is the spadework of progress. Allies are often knocked for six when Trump's tweets roll in and I can imagine the consternation of the striped trousers set in trying to decipher these missives.
Yes, those concerns are (from my PoV) valid ones. What bothers me more about the Twitter habit is that it seems (from the outside, to me) to reflect the breakdown of a well established internal process: that of getting together with various top cabinet and / or Congressional SMEs and getting some inputs before coming up with a public utterance. I think I understand why Trump does it: he doesn't want to play catch up in "establishing the public narrative" - he'd rather get ahead of it, get his take into the eyes and ears first. This is a tool that he uses to do that. Any number of his cabinet members have been blind sided by the Tweets. That's got to be frustrating, and it can result in a lot of mixed messages coming out.
I know this is a 1st Amendment issue for some
Do not have a fully formed opinion on if it's first amendment or not.
Twitter has succeeded in becoming ubiquitous, just as Ma Bell (the Phone Company) did during the middle of the 20th century. I wonder if they won't start running into similar oversight and push back. They broke Ma Bell in the 1980's, and we are seeing a variety of pressure on companies like Google that remind me of how the trust busters went after AT&T (and for that matter, back in the 1970's, IBM). My biggest regret, investing wise, is that I didn't buy AT&T while the court case (breaking up the phone monopoly) was going on and the price was depressed. An opportunity missed.

I think that for Twitter to play the censor may damage their brand, and it may not. A bit early to tell.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 13:20
  #385 (permalink)  
 
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In the last 8 hours he has launched 73 tweets or retweets.
Doesn't he have to cancel an agreement, a treaty or something with the name Obama attached? I'm also sure the toilets in the West Wing urgently need an inspection.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 13:28
  #386 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 419 View Post
Anyway, what does that have to do with the matter I was discussing which was how something that happened in the USA ended up affecting people in the UK
It appears to me that, like in this country, people look at a global information source and choose to play copy-cat for their own reasons and motives. Nobody made them run about in the streets of London like a mob of animals; they chose to do that.
The information age has changed a great many things. Without it, for example, my guess is that the much celebrated (at the time) Arab Spring movement probably doesn't happen.
As to copy cats: a recent copy-cat attack happened in Texas at a Naval Air Station. At least one (now deceased) nitwit tried to replicate the attack at NAS Pensacola from last year. (That's an operating theory at the moment) The second 'person of interest' apparently wrecked his car on the morning not long before the armed attack took place.
If you'd like more detail, there's a thread on the NAS Pensacola attack on the Mil Av forum that Airbubba and I contributed a few more posts to after the attack at NAS Corpus Christi.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 13:33
  #387 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
It appears to me that, like in this country, people look at a global information source and choose to play copy-cat for their own reasons and motives. Nobody made them run about in the streets of London like a mob of animals; they chose to do that.
I totally agree that what is happening in the UK is being done by choice but the fact still remains that what they chose to do is a direct consequence of an event that happened in the USA and the resultant actions by some idiots here, is affecting other people.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 13:36
  #388 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
2. Try to rationalise events by excusing murder to prop up the obviously corrupt leadership of a country which is on the path to despotism and military-enforced dictatorship.
You once again are talking to the wrong person, and lying. You could just stop lying. That would be nice.
You are also both wrong, and using excessive hyperbole. We have an election in November this year. "on the path to despotism and military-enforced dictatorship" is complete bull crap. We went through something a lot like this as a nation in the 60's and 70's; we didn't end up with a military enforced dictatorship.
Originally Posted by wtsmg View Post
I'm not a CAC carrying member of the United States armed forces but I am quite confident you don't end up a general in the Marines with a 44 year record of service without being a pretty good bloke.
Mattis is well above fleet average on that score. Possibly the single best pick Trump made for his cabinet back when he was putting it together in 2016. When he offered his resignation, and proposed a turn over plan (Sec Def's a big job) I didn't care for the President's reaction.
Originally Posted by Brakes on View Post
In the last 8 hours he has launched 73 tweets or retweets.
I think he's addicted to Twitter.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 4th Jun 2020 at 13:53.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 14:25
  #389 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 419 View Post
I totally agree that what is happening in the UK is being done by choice but the fact still remains that what they chose to do is a direct consequence of an event that happened in the USA and the resultant actions by some idiots here, is affecting other people.
Welcome to the information age.
This has been going on since the TV was invented, and maybe since mass communication by Radio began.
The current generation of information overload (which I'll posit started in about September 1993 and then got a boost when iPhones and their ilk became ubiquitous) is the same thing, just faster due to the viral spreading phenomenon.
Works for ads, works for news, works for weather, works for stupidity, and it works for vitriol.
It all spreads at the speed of electromagnetic radiation / internet connection.
Pointing a blame finger is an empty gesture.
"I did it because he did it" hasn't ever been a good excuse.
Saw a post on R&N that covers some of the same ground we seem to have been covering.
A few pages back I alluded to what I think - this is an opinion - is the overall frustration with the last few months of COVID disrupting normal life as a contributing factor (thogh not a root cause, obviously) to a tipping point being reached. (Can't find my notes, there was a well written article a few weeks back on who was getting hit the hardest by the quarantine/slow down ... ) When I find it, I'll get back to you.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 4th Jun 2020 at 14:42.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 14:45
  #390 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
You once again are talking to the wrong person, and lying. You could just stop lying. That would be nice.
You are also both wrong, and using excessive hyperbole.. "on the path to despotism and military-enforced dictatorship" is complete bull crap.
If, in November 2016, just after the election, if I would have said that before the end of his first term there would be police vehicles running over to protesters in the streets, heavily armed police walking through suburbs yelling “light em up” as they shoot residents in their homes, that journalists would be shot and beaten whilst reporting the news, that police officers would be threaten protesters with deadly force for non compliance and that the President himself would order protesters violently cleared so they didn’t interfere with his photo op (not to mention 100,000 dead after he bungled a pandemic and 40 million on unemployment).....

.... I’m 100% sure Trump supporters would have accused me of being a hysterical, lying, triggered, SJW, leftist afflicted with “Trump Derangement Syndrome”.....
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 14:54
  #391 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
- is the overall frustration with the last few months of COVID disrupting normal life as a contributing factor (thogh not a root cause, obviously) to a tipping point being reached..
That tipping point was always going to be reached. It’s been on a path to that tipping point for decades. It was only a matter of time. If it wasn’t a pandemic it would’ve been a recession, a war, whatever but it’s been coming for a while, and once this round of protests are over the underlying conditions will still exist.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 16:04
  #392 (permalink)  
 
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I think it's fair to say that Covid and the lockdown has freed up people who would normally be working to add their voices to these protests, or engage in their own.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

For the non-Yanks, it may be worth noting that Washington, D.C., then as now, is a federal district and not part of any State. Thus the laws and conventions about use of the Army for suppression of dissent or rebellion are different there. There are local city police, but any escalation above that goes directly to Federal force.

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Old 4th Jun 2020, 17:25
  #393 (permalink)  
 
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@Orange, while one might delight in seeing the cousins dine of some crow now and then, that old maxim still holds to an extent that when the U.S. sneezes the world catches a cold. This is serious civil strife and we should take no delight in the U.S's travails at this time--and discomfiture to Trump aside.
No delight taken, I find it troubling and very sad for the many good friends I have in the US, some on the front line in NYC where they are describing a very disturbing picture.

it goes on year after year, nobody cares
I agree and I suspect the fact that Floyds killing was televised to the entire world with the clarity of 4K may have something to do with it. ALL murder statistics should be met with outrage and resolve to act.

But, I also suspect that people are utterly disturbed by the ruthlessness of the policeman who was clearly under no threat at all.

Heather MacDonald is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and the author of The War on Cops
The problem with Heather McDonald is that her commentary provides a narrow glimpse into a much broader problem that the nitty gritty statistics of police brutality towards black people doesn't fully describe.

1: black people are much more frequently charged with crimes for which white people are not charged, particularly drug related.

2: black people have much less access to the law resulting in very few white cops being charged when these events occur.

3: the instances of blacks being killed by white cops for no reason or when presenting no threat far outweigh the opposite.

I have attached a video interview with a Baltimore cop who discusses the need to make up the numbers in arrests, the only metric employed in most police departments. His insight into what happens when a cop is transferred to a wealthy neighborhood is interesting and goes towards explaining why so many blacks are charged with minor crimes or in many cases crimes completely fabricated by the police.

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Old 4th Jun 2020, 17:42
  #394 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
If, in November 2016, just after the election, if I would have said that before the end of his first term there would be
But you didn't. You don't have a crystal ball any more than I do.
Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
That tipping point was always going to be reached. It’s been on a path to that tipping point for decades. It was only a matter of time. If it wasn’t a pandemic it would’ve been a recession, a war, whatever but it’s been coming for a while, and once this round of protests are over the underlying conditions will still exist.
You may be right about that. The anti-cop demonstrations, and then the snipers in Dallas, were certainly a symptom of a problem that was not yet resolved. In the the time between then and now, not yet resolved.
Opportunities missed, yeah, or perhaps worse, opportunity spurned.
And if the opportunity to improve isn't taken now, then can we can expect something like this to happen again? Yes, I think so. Not a matter of if, but when.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 18:07
  #395 (permalink)  
 
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Fox News and Laura Ingraham just keep on giving!

White privilege

Last edited by Revnetwork; 4th Jun 2020 at 19:14.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 18:54
  #396 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Orange future View Post
I have attached a video interview with a Baltimore cop who discusses the need to make up the numbers in arrests, the only metric employed in most police departments.
You've given me a topic for conversation with my old retired deputy chief friend next time I see him.
If "how many arrests we made" is a metric, is that metric derived from the City Council's, or the Mayors, measurement of PD performance?
Or, is that an internal metric measuring something ( Something like "I made this many arrests, so no, I can't abide a reduction of 20 officers next fiscal year" - that sort of thing).
(Won't go on a rant about good metrics versus bad metrics).
I'll be interested to see how that kind of metric is used from both perspectives, and I think he'll have a good insight. He spent a couple of years being the poor sod stuck with the budget battles with the city.

As an outsider, I'd say if your metric is "fewer arrests this quarter" my gut reaction would be "good, crime activity went down, right?" (Which may also be a false conclusion).

Of course the cynic in me wonders at using such a metric for political purposes: "Hey, lookee at us, more arrests! We are not soft on crime, vote for me, re elect me ..."
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 19:25
  #397 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
That tipping point was always going to be reached. It’s been on a path to that tipping point for decades. It was only a matter of time. If it wasn’t a pandemic it would’ve been a recession, a war, whatever but it’s been coming for a while, and once this round of protests are over the underlying conditions will still exist.

Yes, time to bring back the four horsemen
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 21:45
  #398 (permalink)  
 
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I see the White House is being fortified with big concrete blocks. I can hear somebody scream "But they're climbable, bring some of the beautifull sections from the wall at the Mexican border". A good idea actually. Enclose the White House with these and then throw away the key.
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 21:48
  #399 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brakes on View Post
I see the White House is being fortified with big concrete blocks. I can hear somebody scream "But they're climbable, bring some of the beautifull sections from the wall at the Mexican border". A good idea actually. Enclose the White House with these and then throw away the key.
Hell, the way things are going the Mexicans will finish the wall themselves!
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Old 4th Jun 2020, 21:59
  #400 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fltlt View Post
Hell, the way things are going the Mexicans will finish the wall themselves!
Indeed, crowdfunding as we speak.
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