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US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel V3.0

Old 16th Aug 2020, 00:13
  #2201 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MarcK View Post
obgraham, do I detect a note of panic in your replies, lately? .
Not at all. But now that there is an actual candidate ticket, we on the right can get off the defensive and get to work to defeat them.

That's what an election campaign is all about, because, as we all recall, "elections have consequences".
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 01:31
  #2202 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Got any evidence from reputable sources to back that up?
The data’s spotty, but as a percentage of eligible voters the highest percentage in the last 100 years who turned out was for JFK in 1960, recently it has been for Obama in 2008, who got a higher turnout than his predecessor Bush Jr did.. Clinton in 1992 had a higher turnout than his predecessors Reagan or Bush Sr did. 2016 had a high turnout too, I guess that’s why the Democrat candidate received a few million more total votes.

As for midterms which usually in recent years seem to get about 40% turnout the 2018 midterms which have a strong Democrats majority in the house was 50%. The highest since the 1974 midterm which again delivered a big win to the Democrats.

So whilst not 100% accurate it does seem the more total people who vote in recent years seem to elect Democrats.

Now any reputable sources backing up your claim Democrats habitually manipulate election results?
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 02:14
  #2203 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not really into listicles, Dre, as I am posting on a web forum, not writing a thesis. Feel free to do it, though.

However, remind me which party has expended so much effort contesting Presidential elections in the last couple of decades. Hint: doesn't start with "R".
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 02:48
  #2204 (permalink)  
 
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It is notable that one party makes it more difficult for people to vote and one tries to make it easier. Some Republican senators are in states with a historically low turnout and indications that those who can't/won't vote wouldn't vote for them, so they have an interest in keeping the bar high.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 08:04
  #2205 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
I'm not really into listicles, Dre, as I am posting on a web forum, not writing a thesis. Feel free to do it, though.

However, remind me which party has expended so much effort contesting Presidential elections in the last couple of decades. Hint: doesn't start with "R".
Well you asked for sources for claims, I provided them....

Is it the “Grand Old Party”? The same party that appealed to the Supreme Court stop a recount to hand them an election in a 5-4 decision (despite two of those 5 justices having very close connections to the Bush campaign that should have seen them recuse themselves, and another who verbally stated she didn’t want a Democrat to win?).
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 08:26
  #2206 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Not at all. But now that there is an actual candidate ticket, we on the right can get off the defensive and get to work to defeat them.

That's what an election campaign is all about, because, as we all recall, "elections have consequences".
Sure do. Just look at the consequences for the US since the last election.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 14:43
  #2207 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Reality check here: while the Dems are running around like farmyard chickens, looking for who will lead them to the promised land, Trump is once again way out in front politically.


There is not a single eligible voter in the US who will not have the opportunity to turn in his vote. Except for made up stories in areas where Dems need a couple more votes.

Throw up a bunch (how many) extra impromptu drop boxes? Good Lord, what a mess that will be.
obgraham,
The Republicans in Georgia are working on this very problem. They were very pleased with their voting machine deliveries to precincts known to be voting mostly liberal but not having electrical outlets to plug the machines into. I am sure they will come up with something for absentee ballots this Fall.

BTW, you do understand there are different kinds of Postal Service drop boxes. There are those that are blue located around areas such as shopping malls where you can mail letters or mailing envelopes that have the proper postage affixed. Under Trump's Post Office minion, these are being carted off as evidenced by the truck load photographed in Oregon. Then in Ohio, there are white drop boxes for dropping of absentee ballots only, not regular mail. The white drop boxes are controlled by the Boards of Elections, not the Postal Service. Having more of them circumvents Trump's effort to minimize absentee voting by mail and that is where the cute ploy in Ohio comes into play: Republican LaRose asks Republican Attorney General Dave Yost if having more than one box per county is legal and Yost doesn't reply so then LaRose decides it is too late to have more than one per County. Trump is happy, our wimpy Republican Governor is happy, just don't call it "Voter Suppression", Conservatives don't do that, do they? Someday, obgraham, you will figure out how politics work on both sides of the aisle in the United States...






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Old 16th Aug 2020, 14:54
  #2208 (permalink)  
 
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Don't you just hate drop boxes that are too far away from your car, causing you to open a door into a paint chip zone and drop your stuff on the ground

Or at the wrong height for your Lamborhini and you have to stand on your seat


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Old 16th Aug 2020, 14:56
  #2209 (permalink)  
 
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Like you said, TD, and like we have here in Washington, ballot drop boxes are not under the purview of the USPS.

But, Trump, so there is that.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 14:59
  #2210 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
Sure do. Just look at the consequences for the US since the last election.
Sometimes the outcome is the way you see it should be, and sometimes it is not. Perhaps you prefer the China/Cuba/Russia methods.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 15:03
  #2211 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
I'm not really into listicles, Dre, as I am posting on a web forum, not writing a thesis. Feel free to do it, though.

However, remind me which party has expended so much effort contesting Presidential elections in the last couple of decades. Hint: doesn't start with "R".
obgraham,
If you're not familiar with dancing it takes two to Tango, also true in United States politics. Was contesting Nixon's second term worthwhile? Sure was.
Was contesting George W. Bush's "Florida hanging chad" election worth contesting? Sure was.
Do you think if Trump loses reelection come November he'll contest the election with his battery of lawyers licking their chops over the fees they will receive, win or lose? I know what my answer is, how about you?
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 15:09
  #2212 (permalink)  

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Deliberately making it more difficult for folks to vote in case you lose?
Ballots lying uncounted in warehouses?

That is the sort of thing we take for granted in Africa.

Are we now seeing the Africanization of America?

Amandla!

Mac
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 16:10
  #2213 (permalink)  
 
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Was contesting Nixon's second term worthwhile?
What are you on about? Nixon won the popular vote 60-40, and the Electoral vote 520-17.

These days, yes, the Dems would find some grounds for a lawsuit.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 16:17
  #2214 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
What are you on about? Nixon won the popular vote 60-40, and the Electoral vote 520-17.

These days, yes, the Dems would find some grounds for a lawsuit.
It was contested in Congress, Nixon read the tea leaves and resigned the Presidency, saying:
"In the past days, however, it has become evident to me that I no longer have a strong enough political base in the Congress to justify continuing that effort," Mr. Nixon said. He went on to say, But "as President, I must put the interests of America first."
The effort he spoke of was the impending impeachment process in Congress. With the exception of his involvement in Watergate, Nixon did much good during his tenure in office.

Last edited by Turbine D; 16th Aug 2020 at 16:54. Reason: added sentences
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 16:24
  #2215 (permalink)  
 
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obgraham,

On a different note, a NY Times Magazine article about the cherry industry in Washington State that might be of interest to you...Hopefully you will be able to open this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/12/m...mes%20Magazine

TD
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 16:54
  #2216 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
obgraham,

On a different note, a NY Times Magazine article about the cherry industry in Washington State that might be of interest to you...Hopefully you will be able to open this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/12/m...mes%20Magazine

TD
The fruit industry relies on immigrant labor, TD. Is that news to you? Apparently NYT just discovered that fact. And of course the article does not mention the rapidly increasing number of Hispanic owned and operated orchards in the area. Mexicsn immigrants learn within a pretty short time that agriculture in America is a lot better way to eventual prosperity than it is in Mexico. (something that immigrant groups have learned for two centuries or so.)

This year's crop is down in quality and volume, due to a strange crop virus, requiring a number of orchards to be cut down.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 18:23
  #2217 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
obgraham,
The Republicans in Georgia are working on this very problem. They were very pleased with their voting machine deliveries to precincts known to be voting mostly liberal but not having electrical outlets to plug the machines into. I am sure they will come up with something for absentee ballots this Fall.

BTW, you do understand there are different kinds of Postal Service drop boxes. There are those that are blue located around areas such as shopping malls where you can mail letters or mailing envelopes that have the proper postage affixed. Under Trump's Post Office minion, these are being carted off as evidenced by the truck load photographed in Oregon. Then in Ohio, there are white drop boxes for dropping of absentee ballots only, not regular mail. The white drop boxes are controlled by the Boards of Elections, not the Postal Service. Having more of them circumvents Trump's effort to minimize absentee voting by mail and that is where the cute ploy in Ohio comes into play: Republican LaRose asks Republican Attorney General Dave Yost if having more than one box per county is legal and Yost doesn't reply so then LaRose decides it is too late to have more than one per County. Trump is happy, our wimpy Republican Governor is happy, just don't call it "Voter Suppression", Conservatives don't do that, do they? Someday, obgraham, you will figure out how politics work on both sides of the aisle in the United States...





Sorry to burst your bubble on the venerable blue mail box conspiracy, out here in the sticks we have “local” post offices, no mail delivery, you have the old fashioned PO Box.

For as long as I can remember there was the lonely blue box stood stoically outside.
Over the last decade or so it suffered graffiti, what one could only describe as numerous sledge hammer blows, everything from sticky stuff to human excrement inserted through its opening, at least two occasions when it went AWOL, half a dozen fires internally, until at long last the powers that be figured out it wasn’t cost effective to keep replacing them, nor the man hours required to open, sort, clean and send whatever was in it.
The mailbox areas, which used to open pretty much all the time, are now locked down outside business hours, vandalism prevails.
The blue box has been replaced by two letter box flaps inside, one labeled local, one out of town.
Cost cutting wherever they can.
Nowadays a lot of mail, especially rural, is picked up at the local sorting facility by UPS/FedEx, transported by same, then dropped off at the destination Post Office.


Thanks to the web, mail as we used to know it, is teetering on the edge of darkness, only thing I receive nowadays are flyers, which make the short trip from box to trashcan, and judging by the contents of same, everybody else does the same thing.
I often wonder how long the postal service can survive.

Perhaps divide the country into three geographic areas, Amazon, UPS and FedEx each take one, pick up the ballot boxes and deliver them to wherever, got to be way more efficient than USPS.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 19:22
  #2218 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
The fruit industry relies on immigrant labor, TD. Is that news to you? Apparently NYT just discovered that fact. And of course the article does not mention the rapidly increasing number of Hispanic owned and operated orchards in the area. Mexicsn immigrants learn within a pretty short time that agriculture in America is a lot better way to eventual prosperity than it is in Mexico. (something that immigrant groups have learned for two centuries or so.)

This year's crop is down in quality and volume, due to a strange crop virus, requiring a number of orchards to be cut down.
obgraham,
I tried to be nice and send you an article about the cherry industry in your State. I didn't ask for a lecture about immigrant Mexican workers of which some are buy cherry orchards. And then you respond with a ing belittling question directed at me. You can take your s**t superiority frame of mind to somebody else...

Should I believe you about cutting down trees in cherry orchards or believe this update?

https://mailchi.mp/39ccb3f4ff29/nw-c...5?e=077fba02e9

TD

Last edited by Turbine D; 16th Aug 2020 at 19:36.
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Old 16th Aug 2020, 22:18
  #2219 (permalink)  
 
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It's called the "little cherry virus", TD, and our local cherry farmers are concerned as it is their livelihood. To be honest I don't give a sh$t whether you believe me or not.

Find something else to be perpetually outraged by. Your side's candidates, perhaps.

Ver.2
All right. Maybe I over-reacted. I read the article (which I hadn't before, as it is behind the NYT paywall, so there is that. I found it informative, yes, but in my opinion repeated the old urban myth about agriculture: that rich old (likely white) farmers get rich off the backs of (browner) immigrant workers. Just not true.

Agriculture is a difficult way to earn a living, especially if you prefer not to sell out your business to a mega-corp. I've looked after, and personally know, a number of fruit orchardists in my area. Every single one of them is concerned about the welfare of their workers. Every one of them would prefer to hire local citizens to pick their crops, but young traditional Americans refuse to do that type of work. For any wage.

Meanwhile, the orchardist takes huge financial risks, and then has to market his product either himself (nearly impossible) or through a farmer cooperative. To a consumer who wants to pay almost nothing for the product.

The idea that they get rich by abusing their workers beggars belief.

Last edited by obgraham; 16th Aug 2020 at 22:58. Reason: After 2nd thought, expanded.
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Old 17th Aug 2020, 00:46
  #2220 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/16/polit...ust/index.html

Tightening up somewhat.
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