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Black lives donít really matter London March.

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Black lives donít really matter London March.

Old 6th Jun 2020, 14:04
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Black lives donít really matter London March.

So the claim is that black lives matter except the idiots on the London march are not social distancing and seem happy to catch and infect family members and members of their own communities. This despite the higher risk of death to the black communities. What they are actually saying is black lives donít matter. Rant over.

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Old 6th Jun 2020, 14:19
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Perhaps unlike you they see the issue as so important that it’s worth the risk? Not one I’d take personally, but then I’m not black and so don’t have to put up with the sh1t they do on a regular basis.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 14:23
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Well not everyone protesting is black, but I get the drift.

Actually all lives matter, whatever shade you might be. I don't think a lot of the protestors get that either.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 14:55
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Originally Posted by Saintsman View Post
Actually all lives matter, whatever shade you might be. I don't think a lot of the protestors get that either.
That vacuous phrase really infuriates me.

Of course all lives matter. No-one dispute that. But the issue here and now is that black lives are clearly valued less than white lives and that is the thing that needs to change. It's unbelievably arrogant for a white person living a relatively privileged life to object to people fighting for their basic human rights by saying 'oo, what about me, I matter too'.

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Old 6th Jun 2020, 14:57
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Well, SOME black lives matter - but if you happen to be a black man tying to defend a pawn shop against a load of "protesters" them your life doesn't matter.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 14:57
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
That vacuous phrase really infuriates me.

Of course all lives matter. No-one dispute that. But the issue here and now is that black lives are clearly valued less than white lives and that is the thing that needs to change. It's unbelievably arrogant for a white person living a relatively privileged life to object to people fighting for their basic human rights by saying 'oo, what about me, I matter too'.
Plus one ^
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 15:14
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What issue, within the UK, is so great that it is worth deliberately spreading a disease that will kill people for?

I can understand the frustration and sense of powerlessness some feel when watching events unfold across the USA, but do these protesters really think that threatening the lives of innocent people here in the UK, many of whom will be from the BAME section of our society, who are known to be more susceptible to severe illness and death from this disease, is in any way reasonable behaviour?

I guess the real problem is that protesters like this just don't think at all, and have zero ability to even begin to understand the impact of their senseless behaviour. Perhaps a bit of viral genome tracking to connect protesters to people who later die, and then making their names public, so they, and all their friends, know that they have acted to harm and kill people, might get the message across.

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Old 6th Jun 2020, 15:19
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Originally Posted by UniFoxOs View Post
Well, SOME black lives matter - but if you happen to be a black man tying to defend a pawn shop against a load of "protesters" them your life doesn't matter.
How does the fact that a tiny number of criminals - as far as I could see mostly white criminals - took advantage of disruption to commit disgusting crimes, change the basic issue?
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 15:27
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
So the claim is that black lives matter except the idiots on the London march are not social distancing and seem happy to catch and infect family members and members of their own communities. This despite the higher risk of death to the black communities. What they are actually saying is black lives donít matter. Rant over.

Good grief, all of a sudden PPRuNe's great and good are concerned about the lives of the oppressed.

Would it help if I added a little word to the end of the slogan?

Black Lives Matter TOO!

If you really don't understand why people are taking this risk to highlight that some are treated differently because their skin is a different colour, you're either part of the problem or a fool.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 15:32
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
If you really don't understand why people are taking this risk to highlight that some are treated differently because their skin is a different colour, you're either part of the problem or a fool.
Or, to coin a phrase, guilty of seeing things only in black and white ...
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 15:45
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
That vacuous phrase really infuriates me.

Of course all lives matter. No-one dispute that. But the issue here and now is that black lives are clearly valued less than white lives and that is the thing that needs to change. It's unbelievably arrogant for a white person living a relatively privileged life to object to people fighting for their basic human rights by saying 'oo, what about me, I matter too'.
I suppose you are going to tell me next that only white people are racist. Nowhere did I state ĎWhat about meí. My point was there are more people in this world who are not black (and I donít mean white). To think that it is only black people who are victims is just as arrogant.

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Old 6th Jun 2020, 15:48
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Good grief, all of a sudden PPRuNe's great and good are concerned about the lives of the oppressed.

Would it help if I added a little word to the end of the slogan?

Black Lives Matter TOO!

If you really don't understand why people are taking this risk to highlight that some are treated differently because their skin is a different colour, you're either part of the problem or a fool.
For the umpteenth time, where have all these protestors been over the past 30 years or so when black lives in the hundreds, month after month after month, weíre taken by other black lives, did they not matter then, if not, why not?

A murder has been committed, one life took another, the perpetrator has been arrested, charged and is awaiting trial.

Now you can color that however you wish.



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Old 6th Jun 2020, 15:52
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Originally Posted by Saintsman View Post
I suppose you are going to tell me next that only white people are racist. Nowhere did I state ĎWhat about meí. My point was there are more people in this world who are not black (and I donít mean white). To think that it is only black people who are victims is just as arrogant.

Nobody, and I mean nobody has suggested that it is ONLY black lives that matter. Or that ONLY black people are victims.

Except of course those who refuse to accept the point and insist on deflecting the argument .

It is a fact that black people are treated differently because of the colour of their skin. Get it?
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 15:55
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I will not comment on the above, just for those who cannot stay silent in front of such a appaling situation, you can join an on-line stream, wherever you are. I was going to once more march in Norwich tomorrow, respecting social distancing but it has now been cancelled and replaced by
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/black-l...irus-1-6682403
so you are welcome to let your voice heard... in the comfort of your favorite armchair. All Black Lives Matter.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 16:12
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Originally Posted by fltlt View Post
For the umpteenth time, where have all these protestors been over the past 30 years or so when black lives in the hundreds, month after month after month, weíre taken by other black lives, did they not matter then, if not, why not?

A murder has been committed, one life took another, the perpetrator has been arrested, charged and is awaiting trial.

Now you can color that however you wish.
I know exactly how to colour it but you know it anyway.
People get murdered every day. But they don't get murdered necessarily purely because they have a black skin. When a black man kills another black man I somehow doubt that its because he has been brought up to hate the other man because his skin is black!

Are you beginning to understand yet?

When that poor excuse for a policeman knelt on Mr Floyd's neck, he wasn't restraining a human being, he was killing an inferior, he cared not a jot for the man's life...because he was black. Not because he was a criminal (and a minor one at that if at all) , but because his skin was a different colour and therefore in his eyes inferior.

Oh, and I'm pretty damn sure that if mobile phone cameras hadn't been around this would never have come to light, Mr Floyd would have been just another 'accidently died in police custody while resisting arrest' statistic!

It's despicable. You know, I know it, everybody knows it.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 16:13
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Nobody, and I mean nobody has suggested that it is ONLY black lives that matter. Or that ONLY black people are victims.

Except of course those who refuse to accept the point and insist on deflecting the argument .

It is a fact that black people are treated differently because of the colour of their skin. Get it?
I'd suggest that 'it is a fact that some black people are treated differently because of the colour of their skin.'
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 16:20
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Nobody, and I mean nobody has suggested that it is ONLY black lives that matter. Or that ONLY black people are victims.

Except of course those who refuse to accept the point and insist on deflecting the argument .

It is a fact that black people are treated differently because of the colour of their skin. Get it?
Then I would suggest that as a person who I presume is not black, take a stroll through South LA, or perhaps certain parts of any large American city, you will get to experience the difference skin color makes.
If the blacks, Mexicans, Chinese, Vietnamese Gangs donít get you or each other for just being white/red/yellow/pink with red bands and there, you will learn about skin color.

There is prejudice amongst all humans, whatever color, pretty sure itís been there since we first walked upright, gee them things across that hill look different than us.

Doesn't justify the killing.

Whats happening now is no different than what has happened for decades, will anything change because of it, maybe, hopefully, but looking at the track record of the past, lip service will be paid, committees will be formed, reports feet thick will be filed, and then.........
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 17:59
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Originally Posted by stevef View Post
I'd suggest that 'it is a fact that some black people are treated differently because of the colour of their skin.'
I grew up in a part of the country that was pretty much exclusively white. The first black chap I ever met was when I started work. He came from Antigua, and was a laugh a minute. We became good friends, he found me a bedsit close to where he lived in Shepherds Bush (same landlord) and we often went out socially. This was in the early 1970's, and maybe I was a bit naive, but I was incredibly shocked by the discrimination he faced on a daily basis. Some of it was subtle, like the time we were both queuing in the bank, he was in front of me in the queue and the cashier just ignored him and tried to serve me instead. Some was less subtle, like calling at a filling station (before self-service) where he'd ask me to get out of the car and get the attendant, as otherwise we'd be waiting all evening, as the attendant would just refuse to serve him because he was black. In the lab where we worked we had a tea lady that came around with a trolley morning and afternoon. Not only would she refuse to make him tea, but she'd make pointed racist insults all the time. I remember her coming back after being off sick for a few days, and the first thing she said, when someone asked how she was, was that she'd only been sick "because of all the blackies, bringing in their germs".

Open discrimination here in the UK was just a fact of life then. It was common for pubs and B&Bs to have signs outside saying "No Blacks" (and also often "No Irish"). The odd thing is that Tom invited me to stay with his brother and sister-in-law, in New York. The pair of us managed to get indulgence flights to Washington over and back, taking the Greyhound up to New York,and whilst over in the US it was noticeable that he, and his brother, received a lot less racism than he had to deal with every day in the UK. Maybe because that was because his brother was a police officer, so may have been known locally, but I'm inclined to think that New York, even then, was more multicultural and less inherently racist than the UK.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 18:46
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
I grew up in a part of the country that was pretty much exclusively white. The first black chap I ever met was when I started work. He came from Antigua, and was a laugh a minute. We became good friends, he found me a bedsit close to where he lived in Shepherds Bush (same landlord) and we often went out socially. This was in the early 1970's, and maybe I was a bit naive, but I was incredibly shocked by the discrimination he faced on a daily basis. Some of it was subtle, like the time we were both queuing in the bank, he was in front of me in the queue and the cashier just ignored him and tried to serve me instead. Some was less subtle, like calling at a filling station (before self-service) where he'd ask me to get out of the car and get the attendant, as otherwise we'd be waiting all evening, as the attendant would just refuse to serve him because he was black. In the lab where we worked we had a tea lady that came around with a trolley morning and afternoon. Not only would she refuse to make him tea, but she'd make pointed racist insults all the time. I remember her coming back after being off sick for a few days, and the first thing she said, when someone asked how she was, was that she'd only been sick "because of all the blackies, bringing in their germs".

Open discrimination here in the UK was just a fact of life then. It was common for pubs and B&Bs to have signs outside saying "No Blacks" (and also often "No Irish"). The odd thing is that Tom invited me to stay with his brother and sister-in-law, in New York. The pair of us managed to get indulgence flights to Washington over and back, taking the Greyhound up to New York,and whilst over in the US it was noticeable that he, and his brother, received a lot less racism than he had to deal with every day in the UK. Maybe because that was because his brother was a police officer, so may have been known locally, but I'm inclined to think that New York, even then, was more multicultural and less inherently racist than the UK.
VP959,

Sorry but I just have to take issue with the latter part of your otherwise thoughtful and interesting post. I am not sure of the period that you are discussing in the UK but it would appear to be the early to mid sixties, as the sort of notices and discrimination you mention has long been made illegal. The more informal racism of being ignored in a queue and not served tea are however far more likely to have occurred quite a bit later.
I live and work in London and New York, (well up until about mid March I did!) and have to take issue with your rose tinted spectacles view of the Big Apple. I love New York almost as much as I love London, but I have to say quite categorically that there is nowhere in the US that is anywhere near as successfully culturally and racially diverse as London, nowhere.
You will still see racial segregation everywhere in the US, including New York. It is a country that was racially segregated by law as recently as 1968, and there are still areas where a black person treads in fear.

I have quite a few black US friends who have either settled in or visited the UK, and they are all so overwhelmed by the fact that the UK in general, and London in particular, is so racially diverse and it just never seems to be a problem. I have one friend in particular, a black guy, an ex US Marine whom I had to sit down with on his second day in London when he asked me where were the areas of London that, as a black guy, he should avoid? He was amazed, and initially disbelieving, when I told him that there was nowhere in London where he should fear to tread. He was later totally amazed by the fact that he could indeed wander around London and not have to worry about where he walked. He used to be a Washington DC resident, and he was adamant that that was simply not the case there. He told me of an occasion in DC where he was taking a short cut through a quite affluent neighbourhood, and he was stopped by a Police patrol car, asked where he was going, and on replying that he was simply taking a short cut, was told in no uncertain manner that he was not welcome in these local streets and that they could not be responsible for what may happen to him if he kept on heading in the direction he was. He was told to turn round and go back the way he came. Now that sounds totally fanciful until you recall the white woman calling the Police after a Black guy told her to put her dog on a lead, or the white executive who called the Police on a group of black guys using his corporate gym, or the black unarmed woman shot dead through the dooor of her car by a white Policeman.

You just do not see the mix of black and white that is so common in the UK, and particulaly in London, in the US. It is a much more segregated society and that is both an awful shame, and the reason for the whole Black Lives matter protest movement.

I have been in or around the Law for 44 years after leaving the RAF, and while there was a huge systemic problem in the Met Police for a long time until it was rooted out following the Stephen Lawrence case, it is SO much better now but equally there is still an awfully long way to go until we have a truly equal society.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 18:57
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Originally Posted by alicopter View Post
When I read comments like this I realise how high the mountain to climb is. I cannot say much as my "source" has signed Her Majesty's secrets act but as a"recruiting officer" for a Government Agency employing scientists from all over the World (well, before Brexit anyway...) I can tell you that a talented researcher working in this structure, with black skin, who, I can say with certainty has never drawn a knife or a gun in his/her life did give in his/her resignation letter "cultural differences" as a motive and we all know what he/she meant....... His/her unfair treatment... our BIG loss...
Unfortunately PPRuNe the mountain has always been high, we tend to react only to major, unfortunately revolting actions, a little progress is made, money is spread around to ease the pain. then it all just fades into the background noise until the next time, rinse and repeat.
How does one focus the minds of those currently expressing outrage, demanding something be done, for the long term, to actually remain engaged.
I have no idea.
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