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Black lives donít really matter London March.

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Black lives donít really matter London March.

Old 11th Jun 2020, 09:40
  #261 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vlieger View Post
It doesn't take away from the fact that he was quite openly racist and a fan of eugenics, something which is not taught in school at all.

A fan? What the he'll does that mean?

He praised Hitler as well on various occasions. So you can see why some people are upset, surely?
Everyone did. Hitler was popular until he started going on trips outside Germany.

Also often forgotten is how Churchill after the war ended up quite a hated figure in the UK, with a Labour government sweeping to power and setting up the NHS.
Churchill was hated by various people ALL the time. The NHS was in the planning during the coalition government.

But all of this is very uncomfortable knowledge for a lot of people.
It's history. Shoes and chairs are uncomfortable. The history of 1945 is history. But I'm not sure what this really has to do with BLM.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 09:46
  #262 (permalink)  
 
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Would the world have faced the same level of mass protests, violence and mass media coverage if this incident had been the death of a white criminal at the hands of black police officers, who had behaved as those officers allegedly did in Minneapolis?

I suspect not, which should give us cause to ask just who is being racist here.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 09:50
  #263 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
If you think that is the issue then you have absolutely no understanding of what happens every day.

For example, if George Floyd 'pled guilty' that would tell you that his case was never brought to trial (like 97% of such cases) and he was offered a standard plea bargain.

Now, you probably think plea bargains are used in special cases to get criminals to give evidence on each other. In fact, plea bargains are offered routinely and the VAST majority are simple blackmail. The accused is told that f they plead guilty they will get something like 3 years, but if they refuse and maintain their innocence, they will be held on remand for years (unless they can pay large bonds which are way beyond the means of most) and if found guilty at a trial they face many times more years in jail. Given the crazy high conviction rates and the long delays before trial, poor (black) people invariably plead guilty. It has been rightly said that this aspect of the American system favors the guilty rich over the innocent poor.

On release from prison you are now a convicted felon and practically unemployable and excluded from most assistance. What life choices do you then have?

And if you still think 'I would never plead guilty to a crime I was innocent of', take a look at the story of Kalief Browder. This poor kid had the guts to maintain his innocence, and look at what happened to him. Subsequent evidence strongly suggests that he was indeed innocent.

Can you not see how this sort of sustained targeting of the black population is the problem?

It does not matter if Floyd was a saint or a mass murderer. Unless you believe it's OK for the police to kill a man without process, in broad daylight, then this should be keeping you awake at night.
Lets wait for the trial. You can tell how I should think then.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 10:31
  #264 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Lets wait for the trial. You can tell how I should think then.
OK. But I am intrigued to know what new evidence you think might emerge that could change the picture?
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 11:06
  #265 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Would the world have faced the same level of mass protests, violence and mass media coverage if this incident had been the death of a white criminal at the hands of black police officers, who had behaved as those officers allegedly did in Minneapolis?

I suspect not, which should give us cause to ask just who is being racist here.
In a word - No. I suspect you know the reason why.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 11:09
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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I can see a situation in the pipeline where we're going to get rival groups fighting over these statues across the country. Seems like there are already people protecting the statue of Baden-Powell in Poole. Pandemic aside this such a bad situation for the country. Where is Boris in all this?
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 11:11
  #267 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by trident3A View Post
I can see a situation in the pipeline where we're going to get rival groups fighting over these statues across the country. Seems like there are already people protecting the statue of Baden-Powell in Poole. Pandemic aside this such a bad situation for the country. Where is Boris in all this?
Probably glad of the distraction from the mess he's made of handling the pandemic and the even bigger mess he's going to make of Brexit......
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 11:36
  #268 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
Eh? Of course it does. That was a horrific murder. You think I have sympathy for the murders of PC Blakelock because I have no sympathy for the murderers of George Floyd??? This makes no sense. I am however asking you to understand the insidious way that systematic racism traps entire communities into a deadly spiral from which only the few outstandingly brave and outstandingly lucky can escape.

My point being that not matter what your race is, I see no justification for the near decapitation of someone just doing their job. Brutality is completely unacceptable - full stop. PC Blakelock was killed for a) being a policeman and b) probably being white. We all need to stop making abhorrent behaviour into something political and deal with those culpable, whatever their race, with the appropriate severity.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 11:51
  #269 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
.... We all need to stop making abhorrent behaviour into something political and deal with those culpable, whatever their race, with the appropriate severity.
That's exactly where I think you are totally missing the point and exactly the where the nonsensical 'all lives matter' crowd cause fury among the BLM.

Of course no-one disagrees that abhorrent behavior is abhorrent, no sane person wants to see it continue. And certainly, there would not now be riots in the street if a white man had been killed while being restrained by police.

The reason there is now a mass uprising is simply that the protests are NOT about random abhorrent behaviour but about the systemic racism that leads to black people being systematically disadvantaged and many times more likely to die at the hands of the police that a white person. It's the very definition of not getting it to say all lives matter and this would not have happened if a white man had died or what about PC Blakelock.

Sure, no police force is perfect no matter who they are dealing with, but do you not understand that in the US a white person sees a cop as a protector while a black person sees a cop as a threat, and with very good reason? So that when a white person calls the cops on an innocent black person going about their daily lives, it is close to attempted murder ? That is the problem that the BLM movement is struggling to address.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 12:16
  #270 (permalink)  
 
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Is it systemic racism that is the cause of the apparent difference in the crime statistics for different UK racial groups?

The last detailed study showed that black people, for example, made up 2.7% of the population that was aged over 10, yet they make up 13.7% of the prison population. Is that difference because black people are more likely to commit crimes, more likely to be investigated for crimes, or just a statistical accident?

I guess I have to be careful, as probably even suggesting that there is any sort of statistical difference in crimes associated with race may well be seen as racist, even though it most definitely shouldn't be.

Frankly, I want a police service that treats everyone equally, and if it happens that one group within society commit more crimes, then so be it. It seems to me that the police are often pilloried for just doing their job, although equally I am pretty sure that the police have been racially biased in the past. I guess it is hard not to be, when some of the most obvious gang related crime is associated with one racial grouping, or when some of the most abhorrent child sex crimes are associated with another racial grouping. In many ways this is no different to the police viewing used car dealers as being associated with car crimes in the past, or the populations of some housing estates being seen as more likely to be involved in petty theft, or even centres for drug distribution. If the police lose the ability to target known criminal groups, irrespective of race, but based solely on crime intelligence, then they cannot do their job properly.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 12:52
  #271 (permalink)  
 
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Of course, being spat on, called maggot, puss and ghost must just be my memory playing tricks on me....
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 12:58
  #272 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...ue/ar-BB15kwJY

Protesters have pulled down a statute of Christopher Columbus outside the Minnesota State Capitol.

A rope was thrown around the 10ft bronze statue and the demonstrators then pulled the figure off its stone pedestal.

The protesters, including Dakota and Ojibwe Indians, said they consider Columbus as a symbol of genocide against Native Americans.
One does wonder if those Americans involved not from the tribes mentioned then handed over the deeds to their property and land they own to the people it was stolen from? Hmmmmmm, I suppose being PC does not extend that far.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 13:10
  #273 (permalink)  
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What life choices do you then have?
What life choices were made to end up in conflict with the authorities in the first place?
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 13:19
  #274 (permalink)  
 
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Protestors confront racist freight train. Yes, this is in the USA.

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Old 11th Jun 2020, 13:33
  #275 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WhatsaLizad? View Post
Protestors confront racist freight train. Yes, this is in the USA.
I fear we'll be seeing scenes like this soon in the UK unless the police regain control of the streets from this mob.

In brighter news, BC&P Council have abandoned their plans to remove the statue of Baden Powell today after a number of former scouts turned up to defend it.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 13:48
  #276 (permalink)  
 
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I just hope this lot doesn't figure out the massive pipeline system carrying gasoline just a few feet underground throughout the US and instead of TV's, show up with their jugs and containers at a deliberate breach and the inevitable result like in Nigeria. My apologies to comparing the citizens of another country to much of the behavior in the US at the moment.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 14:05
  #277 (permalink)  
 
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What's a "racist" freight train?
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 14:12
  #278 (permalink)  
 
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Had the US never had a black president or black attorneys or black surgeons or any black professionals, I would have a bit more sympathy but isn’t this down to attitude?

If you have read Michelle Obama’s autobiography, Becoming, she talks about the fact she was brought up an very disadvantaged area of Chicago in a low income household, with a disabled father who suffered with MS, but her parents valued and realised that education and commitment to work was the way out of the trap - she ended up as a lawyer. Rather than moaning and griping about how underprivileged they are - and this applies as much across the whole racial spectrum - part from just protesting vocally, what are people doing practically?

And I’m speaking as the grandchild of dirt poor Irish immigrants who came to the U.K. and, despite being educated, both did very menial work to improve their situation.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 14:19
  #279 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Is it systemic racism that is the cause of the apparent difference in the crime statistics for different UK racial groups?

The last detailed study showed that black people, for example, made up 2.7% of the population that was aged over 10, yet they make up 13.7% of the prison population. Is that difference because black people are more likely to commit crimes, more likely to be investigated for crimes, or just a statistical accident?

I guess I have to be careful, as probably even suggesting that there is any sort of statistical difference in crimes associated with race may well be seen as racist, even though it most definitely shouldn't be.

Frankly, I want a police service that treats everyone equally, and if it happens that one group within society commit more crimes, then so be it. It seems to me that the police are often pilloried for just doing their job, although equally I am pretty sure that the police have been racially biased in the past. I guess it is hard not to be, when some of the most obvious gang related crime is associated with one racial grouping, or when some of the most abhorrent child sex crimes are associated with another racial grouping. In many ways this is no different to the police viewing used car dealers as being associated with car crimes in the past, or the populations of some housing estates being seen as more likely to be involved in petty theft, or even centres for drug distribution. If the police lose the ability to target known criminal groups, irrespective of race, but based solely on crime intelligence, then they cannot do their job properly.
Not wish to contradict anything you have said, but there are other considerations besides race when analysing crime statistics. If for instance you considered which area the prisoners came from you would find that a higher percentage were from certain estates or postcodes, regardless of their race.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 14:21
  #280 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ture=emb_title[/QUOTE]

Quite frankly I would riot if I was quoted as looting off of a train. Despicable grammar.
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