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Black lives don’t really matter London March.

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Black lives don’t really matter London March.

Old 10th Jun 2020, 18:39
  #241 (permalink)  
 
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"White men can't jump" 1992 - I find it so difficult living in this country that people can still stream this film today.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 19:01
  #242 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
I look forward to the USA re-naming its capital.
Well gramps, get lost.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 21:21
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Africa_Squadron
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 22:04
  #244 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Can’t read the Spectator article or won’t? It’s in the Coffee Shop part if the site, so shouldn’t be behind a firewall. However I will indulge you with an extract....

....But while Fawcett is mostly celebrated today for the campaign for women’s suffrage, less well-known is her ardent support of the British Empire. Fawcett was such a fan of Empire, that in 1901 she was commissioned by the government to lead an investigation into British concentration camps in South Africa during the second Boer war, after high mortality rates and appalling conditions were reported there.

The camps had been created after the British began conducting a scorched earth policy during the war, which involved burning down villages, homes and crops to root out a guerrilla campaign. As a result tens of thousands of men, women and children were displaced and forcibly moved into the camps.

When she arrived, Fawcett thought the camps were deeply necessary for the war, and her eventual report said the commission had a ‘generally favourable’ view of them. She also suggested that many of the deaths were caused by the ‘unsanitary habits’ of the Boers. Around 28,000 Boers died in the camps.

But if the Boers were unfairly maligned by Fawcett, at least they were mentioned in her eventual report. When she returned to England, Fawcett said that she had investigated ‘every camp’ in the country. In fact, she failed to visit a single camp which held Black Africans, nor did her report address the conditions in which they were held. In total, an estimated 14,000 to 25,000 Africans are thought to have died in the camps that Fawcett ignored.

Fawcett didn’t have much thought for the participation of Black Africans in society after the war either. In 1899, she wrote that after the settlement of the war,

‘I hope we are too deeply pledged to the principle of equal privileges for all white races to abandon it.’

In short, Fawcett is exactly the kind of person you would expect Sadiq Khan’s statue-toppling commission to take aim at. Or perhaps the London mayor will suddenly understand the value of historical nuance when it comes to his own pet project…
Winston was quite openly racist and a fan of eugenics,nuanced indeed!
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 23:54
  #245 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by StAn gelo View Post
Trump town
Or as it is therefore likely as not to become known, Trumpton!

FB
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 02:54
  #246 (permalink)  
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Whether he was a saint or a hardened criminal is irrelevant to the main issue here.
I imagine that within a few moments of the initial arrest, the Officers would have know his previous record.
Thia knowledge may have had an influence on how the police reacted.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 03:20
  #247 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
I do find the 8m 46s memorial tribute to be absolutely crass.

From https://greatgameindia.com/george-floyd-criminal/

Quote:
George Floyd’s Criminal Past
  • George Floyd moved to Minneapolis in 2014 after being released from prison in Houston, Texas following an arrest for aggravated robbery
  • On May 25, 2020, Floyd was arrested for passing a counterfeit $20 bill at a grocery store in Minneapolis
  • He was under the influence of fentanyl and methamphetamine at the time of arrest
  • Floyd has more than a decade-old criminal history at the time of the arrest and went to jail for atleast 5 times
  • George Floyd was the ringleader of a violent home invasion
  • He plead guilty to entering a woman’s home, pointing a gun at her stomach and searching the home for drugs and money, according to court records
  • Floyd was sentenced to 10 months in state jail for possession of cocaine in a December 2005 arrest
  • He had previously been sentenced to eight months for the same offense, stemming from an October 2002 arrest
  • Floyd was arrested in 2002 for criminal trespassing and served 30 days in jail
  • He had another stint for a theft in August 1998

I also find crass that the local rags in countries far, far away from America are pulling up similar stories out of their archives for a #MeToo moment as well.

If this kind of narrative continues then I suspect BLM will backfire big time.
I believe the woman involved was pregnant at the time. Which is why 'Saint' George pointed the gun where he did.

And that little list is of the crime he was convicted of, not the rest of his activities. Not exactly a role model. If the local police knew him there will be more to come out. There will be more video and more facts. Mr Floyd was not a nice man. He will go on trial along with the police officers. He will not come out of this well.
Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
So it's OK for him to be murdered in the street?

And what's more, this is a typical story of someone who finds themselves locked into a completely ******-up legal system than crosses generations.

Whether he was a saint or a hardened criminal is irrelevant to the main issue here.
He was not a saint. He was a hardened criminal. That is the issue.

Last edited by Islandlad; 11th Jun 2020 at 03:42.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 03:26
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by woptb View Post
Winston was quite openly racist and a fan of eugenics,nuanced indeed!
We are all men of our time. It makes us both strong and weak. He took the fight to evil. Was he perfect? No.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 05:36
  #249 (permalink)  
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Brighton charging to the front to show its values.

Brighton, of course, has always prided (sic) itself on its vibrant diverse middle-aged white community..... (94% white)

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1850...ames-reviewed/

Black Lives Matter: Brighton street names to be reviewed

All street names are to be reviewed in Brighton and Hove in light of the Black Lives Matter movement.

The leader of the council has said it will be reviewing all plaques, monuments, statues and street names to ensure they “reflect the city’s values”......

“We will talk with the council’s BME Workers Forum, our local Bame communities and historians to ensure we fully understand the history of our statues and street names and we’ll work collaboratively to commission new street art installations which celebrate the Black community. I would like people to contact me directly if they are aware of any statues, monuments, street or building names which cause them concern.“

“We’re also aware of two plaques that have been identified on a website for removal. These are on private property. We’ll be contacting the owners to ask them to consider their appropriateness.”

This comes as a petition is created to add a sign to the Queen Victoria statue explaining the impact of the British Empire.........

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Old 11th Jun 2020, 06:13
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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It will be interesting to see how far the "defund the police" project trundles down the line. It seems impossible to imagine anything other than violent anarchy across the city of Minnesota. I understand the city council are looking at some kind of community project, to see what makes everyone feel safe?!?!? Interesting that such a notion should be given serious consideration by elected officials, coinciding with moves to remove all statues of Sir Robert Peel over here.
Is this a stride rather than a step toward the collapse of Western Civilization?

FB
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 06:43
  #251 (permalink)  
 
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Bad news for fans of King Charles II.




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Old 11th Jun 2020, 07:24
  #252 (permalink)  
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https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-...lives-18394250

The 10 London statues that Black Lives Matter want removed - including Nelson's Column
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 08:33
  #253 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
We are all men of our time. It makes us both strong and weak. He took the fight to evil. Was he perfect? No.
It doesn't take away from the fact that he was quite openly racist and a fan of eugenics, something which is not taught in school at all. He praised Hitler as well on various occasions. So you can see why some people are upset, surely? Also often forgotten is how Churchill after the war ended up quite a hated figure in the UK, with a Labour government sweeping to power and setting up the NHS. But all of this is very uncomfortable knowledge for a lot of people.

Last edited by vlieger; 11th Jun 2020 at 08:59.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 09:02
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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There are some people who think that the cop is guilty of murder, even though he hasn't been to court and no verdict given.

Whilst he was obviously involved in the death, I suspect that his lawyers are going to plead that he is unlikely to get a fair trial and may never be convicted.

I also wonder that if it did go to trial and he was found not guilty, there are an awful lot of people who will not accept the verdict and will cause even more trouble than we are seeing now.


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Old 11th Jun 2020, 09:03
  #255 (permalink)  
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Vileger,

It just shows how little people know of the past and their politics.

The leader of the Labour Party at the time was George Lansbury, a committed pacifist who pronounced a Hitler as “ one of the great men of our times”. Within his own party Chamberlain lead a faction who wanted to sign a treaty with him and supported the policy of appeasement. Churchill opposed both.

It should be remembered that, in the mid-1930s Hitler was widely admired for pulling Germany out of hyperinflation and saving it from Communism.

As for eugenics, again, until the excesses and abuses of the Nazi’s the policy was widely accepted and admired - one of the greatest exponents was the USA, and especially California. The discovery of genetics and its use to produce better varieties of crops and animals made it logical to assume it would be beneficial to persuade society to do the same with people - the abuses with the poor, the needy, the impaired being revealed later.

So don’t blame Churchill unless you want everyone to burn all relics of their grandparents and destroy all history before 2000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lansbury

https://www.thearticle.com/jeremy-co...e-labour-party

https://www.nature.com/scitable/foru...ent-123919444/


“The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.”

L.P. Hartley, The Go-Between
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 09:14
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
I believe the woman involved was pregnant at the time. Which is why 'Saint' George pointed the gun where he did.

And that little list is of the crime he was convicted of, not the rest of his activities. Not exactly a role model. If the local police knew him there will be more to come out. There will be more video and more facts. Mr Floyd was not a nice man. He will go on trial along with the police officers. He will not come out of this well.

He was not a saint. He was a hardened criminal. That is the issue.
If you think that is the issue then you have absolutely no understanding of what happens every day.

For example, if George Floyd 'pled guilty' that would tell you that his case was never brought to trial (like 97% of such cases) and he was offered a standard plea bargain.

Now, you probably think plea bargains are used in special cases to get criminals to give evidence on each other. In fact, plea bargains are offered routinely and the VAST majority are simple blackmail. The accused is told that f they plead guilty they will get something like 3 years, but if they refuse and maintain their innocence, they will be held on remand for years (unless they can pay large bonds which are way beyond the means of most) and if found guilty at a trial they face many times more years in jail. Given the crazy high conviction rates and the long delays before trial, poor (black) people invariably plead guilty. It has been rightly said that this aspect of the American system favors the guilty rich over the innocent poor.

On release from prison you are now a convicted felon and practically unemployable and excluded from most assistance. What life choices do you then have?

And if you still think 'I would never plead guilty to a crime I was innocent of', take a look at the story of Kalief Browder. This poor kid had the guts to maintain his innocence, and look at what happened to him. Subsequent evidence strongly suggests that he was indeed innocent.

Can you not see how this sort of sustained targeting of the black population is the problem?

It does not matter if Floyd was a saint or a mass murderer. Unless you believe it's OK for the police to kill a man without process, in broad daylight, then this should be keeping you awake at night.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 09:28
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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“To kill a man, without process, in broad daylight, then this should be keeping you awake at night.”

Maybe the murder of PC Keith Blakelock should keep you awake at night?

”The rioters removed Blakelock's protective helmet, which was never found. The pathologist, David Bowen, found 54 holes in Blakelock's overalls, and 40 stabbing or slashing injuries, eight of them to his head, caused by a weapon such as a machete, axe or sword. A six-inch-long knife was buried in his neck up to the hilt. His body was covered in marks from having been kicked or stamped on. His hands and arms were badly cut, and he had lost several fingers trying to defend himself. There were 14 stab wounds on his back, one on the back of his right thigh, and six on his face. Stabbing injuries to his armpits had penetrated his lungs. His head had been turned to one side and his jawbone smashed by a blow that left a six-inch gash across the right side of his head. Bowen said the force of this blow had been "almost as if to sever his head", which gave rise to the view that an attempt had been made to decapitate him.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Keith_Blakelock



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Old 11th Jun 2020, 09:33
  #258 (permalink)  
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It doesn't take away from the fact that he was quite openly racist and a fan of eugenics, something which is not taught in school at all. He praised Hitler as well on various occasions. So you can see why some people are upset, surely? Also often forgotten is how Churchill after the war ended up quite a hated figure in the UK, with a Labour government sweeping to power and setting up the NHS. But all of this is very uncomfortable knowledge for a lot of people.
Yes Churchill was so hated that the Labour government were given one short spell of government before being thrown out and replaced by the 'hated' Churchill and a Conservative government. The only people that genuinely hated Churchill were the communists who waged a campaign in 1945 that Churchill was a 'warmonger' and would lead Britain straight back into another war with Russia, although such a thing was both militarily and economically impossible the doubters and undecided were swayed and put Atlee in in 1945, to their obvious regret.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 09:38
  #259 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vlieger View Post
It doesn't take away from the fact that he was quite openly racist and a fan of eugenics, something which is not taught in school at all. He praised Hitler as well on various occasions. So you can see why some people are upset, surely? Also often forgotten is how Churchill after the war ended up quite a hated figure in the UK, with a Labour government sweeping to power and setting up the NHS. But all of this is very uncomfortable knowledge for a lot of people.
He may have been all of these things, I don't know my history well enough to give an opinion. I do know that just tearing down monuments and removing all traces of him would not help people to understand him for all that he was, good and bad. I don't believe that such a cleansing would diminish his standing but would instead save people from having to consider the "very uncomfortable truth".

People can only form a complete view of his character if they are presented with the full story.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 09:40
  #260 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
“To kill a man, without process, in broad daylight, then this should be keeping you awake at night.”

Maybe the murder of PC Keith Blakelock should keep you awake at night?

”The rioters removed Blakelock's protective helmet, which was never found. The pathologist, David Bowen, found 54 holes in Blakelock's overalls, and 40 stabbing or slashing injuries, eight of them to his head, caused by a weapon such as a machete, axe or sword. A six-inch-long knife was buried in his neck up to the hilt. His body was covered in marks from having been kicked or stamped on. His hands and arms were badly cut, and he had lost several fingers trying to defend himself. There were 14 stab wounds on his back, one on the back of his right thigh, and six on his face. Stabbing injuries to his armpits had penetrated his lungs. His head had been turned to one side and his jawbone smashed by a blow that left a six-inch gash across the right side of his head. Bowen said the force of this blow had been "almost as if to sever his head", which gave rise to the view that an attempt had been made to decapitate him.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Keith_Blakelock

Eh? Of course it does. That was a horrific murder. You think I have sympathy for the murders of PC Blakelock because I have no sympathy for the murderers of George Floyd??? This makes no sense. I am however asking you to understand the insidious way that systematic racism traps entire communities into a deadly spiral from which only the few outstandingly brave and outstandingly lucky can escape.
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