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Black lives donít really matter London March.

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Black lives donít really matter London March.

Old 10th Jun 2020, 06:43
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
Certainly isn't, was common in the past, Vikings, Greece, Romans, Africans are just a few who took slaves. Example, Barbary pirates taking Irish slaves.

https://www.baltimore.ie/the-sack-of-baltimore
I was not going that far back. The 20th Century had its own horrors.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 06:58
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Another alternative, which has been done to other statue of historically controversial figures, is to relocate the statues from public squares into museums. When a statue is in a public place it could be viewed as a symbol of honour or pride, whereas in a museum it isn’t really there to be worshipped, but studied in a historical context.
A simpler - and arguably better - alternative is to leave such statues in situ, but to replace the original sycophantic/sanitised plaque with one bearing a realistic assessment of what the individual did, for the world to see and learn.

Here's a good (US) example:




New historical marker to clarify history of Nathan Bedford Forrest




Arguably, if Bristol Council had bitten the bullet a few years ago and had replaced the plaque on slave-trader Colston's statue ("one of the most virtuous and wise sons of their city") with the proposed replacement, said statue wouldn't now be sitting at the bottom of the harbour.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 07:02
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
A simpler - and arguably better - alternative is to leave such statues in situ, but to replace the original sycophantic/sanitised plaque with one bearing a realistic assessment of what the individual did, for the world to see and learn.
.
I liked Banksy's suggestion:


https://www.creativebloq.com/news/banksy-bristol-statue
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 07:59
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Politico:

Next in line: Students in Liverpool last night pushed university bosses into renaming Gladstone Hall, named after the four-time Liberal Prime Minister William Gladstone. Gladstone, of course, was not involved in the slave trade, but is accused by critics of being less than robust on the cause due to his father’s former slaveholdings.

As the Guardian’s Patrick Wintour notes, however, this is a much more nuanced case than some of the other historical figures being targeted, and liberal commentators such as the FT’s Rober Shrimley fears a major tactical error. Bim Afolami, one of the Tory Party’s most prominent black MPs, tweeted at the news: “This is all going completely nuts. When will this stop?”

Not yet, apparently: The Times and the Daily Mail both splash on a list of 60 or so statues now being targeted around the country, with the Mail offering overt echoes of Chairman Mao with a double-page spread warning readers of “Labour’s cultural revolution.”

The Times warns police are already braced for another highly challenging weekend, with far-right activists planning to “protect” iconic statues if Black Lives Matter protesters turn out again. “We have got the perfect storm ahead of us this weekend,” says Ken Marsh, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 08:02
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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I understand Gone With the Wind is next, HBO are reportedly removing it from their archives.

How about demolishing the pyramids too? Weren’t they built on the back of slave labour?
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 08:16
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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I am coming to the opinion that what is happening in the UK now has moved on from the original intent of supporting disgust at the brutal killing of a George Floyd by the police and there is some underlying movement un-related to the BLM movement with their own agenda in stirring things up and not helped by the media with their muck stirring headlines, I hope that common sense will prevail but doubt it and we will see how this pans out when the other side of the story are out protecting statues later on in the week., I will put forward the notion that the police will not be as tolerant of those who oppose the current trend of toppling statues.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 08:19
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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''Fellow Citizens, we cannot escape history......'

Abraham Lincoln
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 08:30
  #208 (permalink)  
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Perhaps those occupied with obscuring history should focus their limited intellect instead on the disgrace of modern slavery - and exactly who is responsible for that?
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 08:35
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 419 View Post
Are they allowed to use the term "white washing"? Doesn't that have racist connotations?

And on a similar note, I assume there will now be campaigns to abolish, as racist/discriminatory, of such organisations/events as The Association of Black Police Officers or The MOBO (Music of Black Origin) Awards?

No?.......................thought not.

Last edited by golfbananajam; 10th Jun 2020 at 08:36. Reason: typos corrected
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 08:38
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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"I am coming to the opinion that what is happening in the UK now has moved on from the original intent of supporting disgust at the brutal killing of a George Floyd by the police and there is some underlying movement un-related to the BLM movement
Are you really so out of touch with reality that you actually believed that these disturbances were about the killing of one individual? Possible, of course, but naive at best. At worst ? ... who can tell?
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 08:52
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
"I am coming to the opinion that what is happening in the UK now has moved on from the original intent of supporting disgust at the brutal killing of a George Floyd by the police and there is some underlying movement un-related to the BLM movement
Are you really so out of touch with reality that you actually believed that these disturbances were about the killing of one individual? Possible, of course, but naive at best. At worst ? ... who can tell?
Exactly. The BLM protests have been hijacked and exploited by a political group with a different agenda. Sadly, the participants donít seem to realise theyíre being exploited for someone elseís benefit - a bit ironic really as thatís not the first time, historically, itís happened!
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 08:52
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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I look forward to the USA re-naming its capital. Washington was a slave owner, and entirely unrepentant about it.

So what should the USA call its capital?
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 09:04
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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Trump Plaza
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 09:07
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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Is it me or are all this Statue destroying, viloent confrontations, having the opposite effect? Instead of feeling sorry for them and trying to bring about change, they are causing resentment against those doing it in their name...
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 09:11
  #215 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
"I am coming to the opinion that what is happening in the UK now has moved on from the original intent of supporting disgust at the brutal killing of a George Floyd by the police and there is some underlying movement un-related to the BLM movement
Are you really so out of touch with reality that you actually believed that these disturbances were about the killing of one individual? Possible, of course, but naive at best. At worst ? ... who can tell?
I know news media is lies/fake news and not considered 'news', however most had the following reasons for the protests:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/31/hundr...test-12783272/


His death has sparked Black Lives Matter protests across the globe, with more than 1,600 people arrested across 22 cities in America. In London today, crowds of people held signs reading ‘Justice for George’ and ‘Rest in Power’ as they headed to Trafalgar Square.
It has morphed into something else over and above the original intent of justice for George and other black people suffering from current police and others brutality and from oppressing black people and that change is by trying to remove history regarding slavery and historically perceived/actual racism within film, media & society which will make no difference to the current situation, so your comment could be considered as naÔve, missing the point somewhat, or at worse ? ,,,,, but my post like yours is opinion which we are all entitled to voice, does not make you or myself anymore right or wrong than the others.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 09:13
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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Here goes...

I will attempt to offer some thoughts on the matter.

I see the BBC is doing its best today to drag up any examples it can find of our own ĎGeorge Floydí moment.

Rapper Wretch 32's father Tasered by London police https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52988251

Are we now to assume that, because someone is black, they could not have been guilty?

Police, obviously in a state of increased arousal, turn up for a drugs raid, challenge a man to stop and state they are armed with a taser, the man continues to come at them and they tasered him.

They didnít taser him because he was black. They did it because of the situation.

I include this story as a conversation piece.

Now, I see on this thread we have the usual extremes of opinion. Left minded people accuse everyone else of being racist. Right minded people accuse everyone else of being traitors to their country.

The reality is that there are a fair few horrible racist people in the UK and a fair few who probably donít realise they are actually racist.

By branding everyone as racist you will get nowhere.

I wholeheartedly support the right of people of colour to hold a peaceful demonstration to highlight an issue that, in the UK, does still exist but to nothing like the same degree it exists in the USA (before anyone says ďyouíre a Brit what do you know?Ē, consider I have visited 32 US States and worked and traveled extensively there). I do not support the violence and vandalism that was carried out.

Annoyingly a lot of the vandalism may has been carried out by white people. Which begs the question of what they were doing there? They may think it shows solidarity but I say show your support in other ways.

My personal view is that the number one job to attend to in order to change the way black people are viewed is to tackle the culture of gangs and violence that is prevalent in London. This needs massive buy in from black role models (like our erstwhile rapper friend) to convince youths that gang culture is for losers.

Once gang culture is controlled and kids learn that they live in a country where they can have the same opportunities as everyone else, if they are prepared to work for it like everyone else, then we might see light at the end of the tunnel.

I am not in a position to effect wholesale change in the UK but what I can do is tell my children everyday that they should grow up to treat everyone as they wish to be treated, regardless of race/gender/ethnicity/sexuality etc.

I am not perfect in my views and as a white man brought up in a very white part of England I know I probably have a way to go. However, I firmly believe that everyone should be treated equally and my kids will grow up to think the same.

If anyone wishes to take issue with anything I have said then thatís up to you. But first consider that most people have very moderate views on the matter. By always focusing on the extreme views we lose sight of the fact that the vast majority of the UK sympathise with and understand the issues.

BV





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Old 10th Jun 2020, 09:32
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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I was never a big fan of Little Britain for what it's worth but removing it now is ridiculous - for one thing nobody's being forced to watch it for another I don't remember anyone complaining at the time. Once you establish the principle that programmes can be censored because one group or another are offended you might as well redact nearly all the classic British comedies. Where does it end?
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 10:07
  #218 (permalink)  
 
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If you are able to access the TV channel Talking Pictures, which features 'old' films (?vintage?) and TV programmes, a broadcast is often preceded by a statement that the views and situations in the next feature reflect the times in which the feature was made and may not necessarily be acceptable to those watching today. In a way it's a shame that such a statement needs to be made to warn those of a sensitive nature, but it does mean that one gets a view of 'what was ok in the past' and then can consider if the present day's state of acceptability is reasonable or even too 'snowflake' in comparison.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 10:10
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alsacienne View Post
If you are able to access the TV channel Talking Pictures, which features 'old' films (?vintage?) and TV programmes, a broadcast is often preceded by a statement that the views and situations in the next feature reflect the times in which the feature was made and may not necessarily be acceptable to those watching today. In a way it's a shame that such a statement needs to be made to warn those of a sensitive nature, but it does mean that one gets a view of 'what was ok in the past' and then can consider if the present day's state of acceptability is reasonable or even too 'snowflake' in comparison.
Totally agree, history has to be understood in context. It's such an elementary principle that nobody seems to be getting at the moment.
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Old 10th Jun 2020, 10:19
  #220 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly. The BLM protests have been hijacked and exploited by a political group
BLM is a political group - and one devoted to the destruction of capitalism as a route to equality.

The usual suspects of course use it as just another screen for the same politics consistently rejected by the voters. Hence the usual groups also dominating the protests and rioting outside Downing Street, chanting abuse at the PM etc.

Diesnt mean that there aren’t many sincere supporters - just be aware of those behind the scene and their motives.

https://www.slu.edu/arts-and-science...arfall2018.pdf

https://polsci.umass.edu/news/listen...lism-sid-issar

https://www.socialistalternative.org...atter-marxism/


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