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Electric scooters.

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Electric scooters.

Old 19th May 2020, 05:33
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.........say if a pedestrian hasn't heard you approach and steps out in front..
A pedestrian would be on the footpath, so why would he ever step out in front of a scooter ? Oh ! yes, of course ! The scooter is being ridden illegally on the footpath.

As mechanically propelled vehicles electric scooters are illegal for public road use.
Why, aren't electric cars mechanically propelled too ? They have wheels and motors, they are effectively motor bikes, what's the difference ? Yes, they should be made to pay a road fund tax, carry third party ( at least ) insurance, licence plates fore and aft, wear a helmet. Why not, motorised bike - bi = two wheels.

Please explain why they are illegal on the road ?
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Old 19th May 2020, 07:09
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Originally Posted by ExSp33db1rd View Post
.

A pedestrian would be on the footpath, so why would he ever step out in front of a scooter ? Oh ! yes, of course ! The scooter is being ridden illegally on the footpath.



Why, aren't electric cars mechanically propelled too ? They have wheels and motors, they are effectively motor bikes, what's the difference ? Yes, they should be made to pay a road fund tax, carry third party ( at least ) insurance, licence plates fore and aft, wear a helmet. Why not, motorised bike - bi = two wheels.

Please explain why they are illegal on the road ?
You answered your own question. They currently donít require insurance, pay tax, or have any MOT requirements. Hence as they are a motorised vehicle they canít be used on public roads.
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Old 19th May 2020, 08:03
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
Not too many parked cars on 60MPH single lane country roads. Now cyclists on the other hand, they seem to be magically drawn to them!
Cyclists drawn to counrtry lanes, getting in the way of drivers wanting to go 60mph. Selfish bastards!

Meanwhile look at these anti-social cyclists in town. Not satisfied with a decent infrastructure, some are clearly riding OUTSIDE of this provision, side-by-side. Give them an inch and they’ll take a yard. The cheeky sods are even smiling, probably because they know they are in the wrong.




And no helmets or high vis clothing! Reckless, thoughtless, selfish.
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Old 19th May 2020, 08:12
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
Cyclists drawn to counrtry lanes, getting in the way of drivers wanting to go 60mph. Selfish bastards!

Meanwhile look at these anti-social cyclists in town. Not satisfied with a decent infrastructure, some are clearly riding OUTSIDE of this provision, side-by-side. Give them an inch and theyíll take a yard. The cheeky sods are even smiling, probably because they know they are in the wrong.




And no helmets or high vis clothing! Reckless, thoughtless, selfish.
Actually I see them riding in a red marked cycle lane. Good on them. If we had more cycle lanes I would ride on the road more. Obviously this is from the continent where they are geared up more for cyclists.

one further point. I donít see one Lycra clad Mentalist amongst them.
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Old 19th May 2020, 08:52
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
Actually I see them riding in a red marked cycle lane. Good on them. If we had more cycle lanes I would ride on the road more. Obviously this is from the continent where they are geared up more for cyclists.

one further point. I donít see one Lycra clad Mentalist amongst them.
Precisley. The fundamental problem the UK has is a lack of suitable infrastructure. This extends to the Lycra ďmentalistsĒ who will frequently average Speeds of more than 17mph unassisted. This is not a speed that can be shared with pedestrians. Nor are cyclists fast enough to be other than an impediment to traffic which could otherwise move freely. The problem is obviously lack of infrastructure. The UK also has smaller roads than most of the Northern countries across the Eastern Ditch. But it has followed the recent trend towards ever bigger cars and ever more cars without any plan or insight into why this might cause problems and be heading nowhere. But instead of talking about that and fixing the problem, the UK is always stuck of complaining about symptoms and not curing the cause of the illness.

Up to now there has been no national strategy with respect to cycling and light vehicle infrastructure. And many of the investments made have been token and not fit for purpose. The net result is continued underuse of much of the infrastructure that is there, with London being one of the few exceptions, because there the infrastructure there has been better designed and there is great need.

This thread was about electric scooters, but it didnít take long for a wholly predictable anti-cyclist discussion to creep in. Particularly in urban environments and short-distance commuting, cycling is so obviously a solution to many issues of poor health, congestion, pollution, inefficient energy use etc, that it should enjoy much more self-interested public support. But no, there is and always has been a strong latent antipathy amongst many Brits towards cycling and that is why most of our neighbourís across the Ditch have generally well-developed infrastructures whilst it has taken Covid to create the political will and move the political discussion on in the UK.

Jet Blast, hasnít caught up yet. Probably stuck in a car, seething at the cyclists who swerved through the traffic then ran the red light. You can take the googles off now; this part of the test is complete.
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Old 19th May 2020, 09:10
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
With the government stating they are planning to start trials with electric scooters I am looking at buying one.

There are plenty here in Brighton and the police take no notice. I did look at a bike, but living on the top floor of a building with a two person lift it wasn’t practicable. A folding scooter would allow me to travel the few miles along the cliff underpass avoiding the main road to meet my sisters outside for a chat and coffee whilst avoiding using the buses.

Brighton is also in the middle of planning a large expansion of bike lanes as well, which would it feasible to travel into the town centre.

Anyone admit to having one and any recommendations? Currently leaning towards the Xiaomi M365 Pro.

https://www.t3.com/features/best-electric-scooters
What evet you get, invest in a damned good pair of motorcycle gloves, you would be surprised how much damage you can inflict on your hands at low speed if you come off. and the natural reaction is to put them out to protect your fall.... An Ex Biker. I would also make electric bikes require registration and a licence, and be subject to the same penalties as motorists, points on licences etc, bike confiscation.
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Old 19th May 2020, 14:48
  #67 (permalink)  

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anyone remember the home made clackers we used to fit to our pedal bikes?
An old playing card secured with a clothes peg as I remember.
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Old 19th May 2020, 15:31
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yes, remember doing that, though the real clackers were renowned for breaking ones wrists,,,,




https://nostalgiacentral.com/pop-cul...sklick-klacks/
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Old 19th May 2020, 20:45
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From post #9, I find Fareastdrivers experience in China completely accurate. We called the electric scooters "whispering death".

In Ho Chi Minh city, the bikes are noisy and are kept off the foot paths by small steel hurdles placed at random points. You wouldn't be able to ride a kick along scooter along the paths anyway, they are a tad rough at he best of times.
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Old 20th May 2020, 06:16
  #70 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e...-ban-c2cz038m6

E-scooters restricted to 12.5mph under new rules

Electric scooters could be banned from pavements and limited to 12.5mph under plans to legalise them in Britain.

The Department for Transport has proposed that e-scooters be allowed on public roads and in cycle lanes for the first time but not on footpaths. A maximum speed of 12.5mph would put the devices roughly on a par with cyclists in built-up areas.

The proposals form part of a DfT consultation on trials of e-scooter rental schemes in large cities. Riders taking part in the trials would need to hold a provisional or full driving licence and the use of e-scooters would initially be restricted to people aged 16 or over. However, it is unlikely that a driving licence would be required beyond the trial period.

In the future, the DfT said, “we may look to amend the law to treat e-scooters” like electric bicycles, whose riders do not require a licence.......

UK trials, including in Coventry and Birmingham, were due to be launched next year but have been brought forward to next month as part of the government’s lockdown plans. A consultation said shared e-scooters “could be a fast and clean way to travel that eases the burden on the transport network and allows for social distancing”.

The DfT said the speed limit — in line with France, Germany and Denmark — was “appropriate” given that e-scooters would be used “in cycle lanes and tracks”. The consultation will seek views on a possible 15.5mph limit in line with electric bikes.

Local councils will retain powers to prohibit e-scooters from residential areas and to decide the number of rental schemes and where scooters may be parked, rather than allowing them to clutter pavements. The wearing of cycle helmets will not be compulsory.

The outcome of the trial consultation is likely to inform future legislation for the wider use of e-scooters in the UK.


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Old 20th May 2020, 07:42
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Seems a sensible set of rules to me. I can't see any need for licensing, but being speed limited and prohibited from use on footpaths and pavements seems wise.
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:27
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Seems a sensible set of rules to me. I can't see any need for licensing, but being speed limited and prohibited from use on footpaths and pavements seems wise.
How are you going to enforce the footpath rule? Another duty thrust onto the police I suppose.
Every Christmas children are given bicycles and told to ride them on the footpaths for their own safety, and that is already illegal. Will the same thing happen once the electric scooters are handed out by doting parents? "Look here officer I'm not having my kid on the road with all that traffic".

These are mechanically propelled vehicles. By all means make them legal, but they need exactly the same regulations as 50cc mopeds.
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:31
  #73 (permalink)  
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https://www.gov.uk/government/consul...-for-their-use

Open consultation

Legalising rental e-scooter trials: defining e-scooters and rules for their use
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:36
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
How are you going to enforce the footpath rule? Another duty thrust onto the police I suppose.
Every Christmas children are given bicycles and told to ride them on the footpaths for their own safety, and that is already illegal. Will the same thing happen once the electric scooters are handed out by doting parents? "Look here officer I'm not having my kid on the road with all that traffic".

These are mechanically propelled vehicles. By all means make them legal, but they need exactly the same regulations as 50cc mopeds.
The issue of policing is a good one, and likely to present a significant challenge. However, we don't require licences for either bicycles or electric bikes, and the latter are allowed to do 15.5mph, so it seems irational to try and insist on licenses for the riders of electric scooters restricted to 12.5mph.
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:48
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The issue of policing is a good one, and likely to present a significant challenge. However, we don't require licences for either bicycles or electric bikes, and the latter are allowed to do 15.5mph, so it seems irational to try and insist on licenses for the riders of electric scooters restricted to 12.5mph.
I'd look at electric bikes the same way - any vehicle with mechanical propulsion. Once you start drawing artificial lines between different amounts of power there will always be problems, particularly as technology develops.
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Old 20th May 2020, 09:59
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'd look at electric bikes the same way - any vehicle with mechanical propulsion. Once you start drawing artificial lines between different amounts of power there will always be problems, particularly as technology develops.
This is why electric bikes are power and speed limited, to a level that is comparable with the power output from normal bike rider. In practice, all legal electric bikes perform in pretty much the same way as a non-electric bike, if anything they are probably slower, as the mandatory power assist shut off at 15.5mph, plus the additional weight of the battery and motor, they tend to be hard work at anything over their maximum assist speed.

It's speed, rather than power, that poses the main safety concern, anyway, just from E = 1/2.m.v≤, so limiting the speed is far more effective than limiting power.
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Old 20th May 2020, 10:10
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It's speed, rather than power, that poses the main safety concern, anyway, just from E = 1/2.m.v≤, so limiting the speed is far more effective than limiting power.
The issue with e-scooters is that the power is limited by software, and almost all have hacks. Officially deplored by the companies, but it helps sales.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/6237...3358507786657/

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Old 20th May 2020, 10:13
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I think that all electric bikes, irrespective of their maximum speed should have to be registered and insured. It's possible to buy some that can do close to 30mph and I doubt if your average copper/council official would be able to tell the difference between this:


that is limited to 15.5mph
and this:


that can do in 28mph,
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Old 20th May 2020, 10:26
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I've long felt that all the sales of illegal electric bikes should be better policed, but it's rather like all the other dangerous tat that's freely available, no one seems to be bothered by it. It's pretty trivial to determine if an electric bike has power assist above 15.5mph. yet no one seems to be the slightest bit interested in trying to police this. The fact that it's an offence to ride an electric bike like the lower one above, seems not to cause the powers that be any concerns at all when it comes to them being imported and sold here. This is the real problem, that it's lawful to advertise and sell something here that is unlawful to use, quite why this situation is allowed to exist I don't know.
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Old 20th May 2020, 11:20
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Which all goes to illustrate the nonsense of arbitrary limits on power, however measured or applied.
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