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China syndrome Mk 2

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China syndrome Mk 2

Old 5th May 2020, 16:59
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"They are exceptional adept at stealthy manipulation, and have decades of experience of doing this with their own population."

yeah - really subtle - like Tienanmen Square.............

That's a long time ago, for the past decade or two they have been getting a great deal better, and more subtle, at it.
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Old 5th May 2020, 17:04
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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How is China going to be in an extremely strong position? I would think they’ll be one of the most impacted.

My IPad is acting up, pre Covid I had planned on getting a new one. Not now. My wife is a teacher, she is teaching from home now, distance learning as they call it. Her school has given her a laptop to complete her lessons. It meets the needs of the work she is required to push out to her students, it however hasn’t all the functions she’d like. After looking at the budget, we’re going to pass on getting a new PC that would due to cost. This is but two decisions in one household to defer purchases of equipment that quite possibly would have been built in China. Multiply that out by hundreds of millions of households worldwide worried about the bottom line, the end result is not good for nations that are reliant on manufacturing.

To be sure this will unevenly impact other nations as well. I just don’t see reason to suspect the Chinese will come out in a strong position.
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Old 5th May 2020, 17:09
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown View Post
I don't think sanctions will be enough. It certainly won't satisfy the Hawke's in various capitals.

Whatever happens i am of the opinion, some serious ass kicking is needed.

As pointed out above, they couldn't have wrecked more havoc if they had used the worst weapons.

Wet market? Where's the proof?
So where do you think the Virus originated from and why? What concrete, absolute proof do you have?

Do you honestly think, if it originated from China, that it was released purposely? Have you any proof?

Serious ass kicking. Iím really interested in what form this takes and what are the consequences.
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Old 5th May 2020, 17:38
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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People like me don't have much money; state pension and that's it. I want utilitarian stuff; such as motorbike, smartphone, computer, various tools. Over many years, Chinese often meets my needs. Forget sanctions, forget boycott.
On the other hand some nations can get seriously fleeced by Chinese failing to deliver what seemed to be promised. For example sugar cane factory, Skeldon, Guyana.
But what is new,,,?....Buyer beware....?
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Old 5th May 2020, 17:50
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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There is an old apocryphal quote out there, allegedly from Lenin (or Stalin, or Marx, or Mao, or somebody): "When the time comes to hang all the Capitalists, a Capitalist will sell us the rope."

'Way back when Deng Xioaping began his economic reforms (c. 1990), I began rewording that as "When the time comes to hang all the Capitalists, we Communists will sell the Capitalists the rope."

No one forced western companies to move their manufacturing or their sales to China. It was a classic Capitalist free-market choice, in pursuit of reduced labor costs, a bigger market, and increased profits. So long as those incentives remain, and so long as the body-politic (politicians and those who vote for them) do the bidding of the investor-class, there will be little change.
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Old 5th May 2020, 18:12
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
I wonder how many people realise that their Volvo is actually made by a Chinese owned subsidiary of Geely Holdings?
And major components of Jaguar Land Rover products are made in China, they own your new Nuclear power stations, and considering the UK government is being just as dishonest about the virus in the UK as China was in China, those in glass houses etc....
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Old 5th May 2020, 19:26
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc View Post
And major components of Jaguar Land Rover products are made in China, they own your new Nuclear power stations, and considering the UK government is being just as dishonest about the virus in the UK as China was in China, those in glass houses etc....
Except here, if you speak out against the regime or the way things are being handled, you donít tend to meet with an unfortunate accident or disappear.
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Old 5th May 2020, 20:08
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
Except here, if you speak out against the regime or the way things are being handled, you donít tend to meet with an unfortunate accident or disappear.
Good point and well made. NHS staff do get sacked though.
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Old 6th May 2020, 02:27
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Fortunately, manufacturers in China are quite flexible with their "Made in (insert name here)" stamps.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3703124

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...shipped-to-u-s

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Old 6th May 2020, 08:56
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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And with fake E marks on everything they make, regardless of any standards or safety checks.
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Old 6th May 2020, 09:05
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
And with fake E marks on everything they make, regardless of any standards or safety checks.

Very true, some Chinese made stuff is simply lethal, and much of the really dodgy stuff is sold via Amazon and ebay, who seemingly do very little, if anything, to prevent dangerous goods being sold.

I bought a battery charger from ebay a few years ago, and was a bit concerned about the odd feel of the mains cable, it seemed a bit too flexible, with a very thin outer insulation layer. I took the thing apart and it was a horror show. The cable was the least of the problems with it, as not only were the line and neutral connections crossed internally, the line was directly connected to the battery negative lead! It's pure luck that I decided to unscrew it and have a look inside before powering it up.

This thing had several other faults, like no protective earth connection to the exposed conductive parts (the wire was just floating free internally), no fuse in the moulded, fake, UK 13 A plug, a mains lead that had very thin conductors that were some sort of copper-coated springy metal, not sure what, inadequate internal insulation, etc. The thing was smashed up and skipped, to stop anyone ever being tempted to use it.
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Old 6th May 2020, 09:08
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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I see the narrative from The Donald is taking hold.

The bloke who suggested injecting disinfectant, remember that? You now believe him when he tells you that its all China's fault?

Well done.
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Old 6th May 2020, 09:14
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
I see the narrative from The Donald is taking hold.

The bloke who suggested injecting disinfectant, remember that? You now believe him when he tells you that its all China's fault?

Well done.
i think we probably all agree, itís not the fact it most likely originated in China, itís the cover ups and the denials of the seriousness that have fuelled the anti Chinese backlash.
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Old 6th May 2020, 10:17
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Kremmen View Post
When this awful farrago has all but disappeared and the public inquiry is in place, will it be time to take stock ? I refer particularly to reparations. Somewhere, someone, somehow must show that, the carelessness that perhaps fostered the release of the virus must be paid for. The question is how?

As an individual who, from time to time buys from China, I have concerns about product quality. With Taiwanese made products I have no such concerns. So, for me, personally, the question is answered.

Whether there is any appetite on the part of governments to impose sanctions, I very much doubt. The interests of 'realpolitik' will probably have their way.
Why does there need to be any reparations at all? This was a natural disaster so to speak. You wouldnít expect reparations if a volcano had erupted.

Different countries around the world have taken different paths, and some may be better than others but only with the knowledge of hindsight.

Just chalk it up as a life experience and move on as best you can.

Last edited by highflyer40; 6th May 2020 at 10:28.
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Old 6th May 2020, 10:31
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dan_Brown View Post
Exactly! The general public won't get the whole truth, from any Govenment. Is anyone deluded to the extent they believe anything the authorities in China put out? You know, that lot of gangsters who gunned down, how many 10k of their own people in day??
Whether there was any cover up or not, it wouldnít have made any difference. Outside of Asia nobody wanted to listen. Even once the whole situation became clear western nations still covered their eyes and pretended nothing was happening.

Itís just todayís society. Someone has to be to blame for everything, and you can be sure it would never be yourself.
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Old 6th May 2020, 10:33
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
i think we probably all agree, it’s not the fact it most likely originated in China, it’s the cover ups and the denials of the seriousness that have fuelled the anti Chinese backlash.
Do you have solid evidence (not "sources say") from an independent source that confirms any of those accusations?

Here's a joint statement from some of the world's top public health scientists published in one of the world's pre-eminent medical science journals (The Lancet) stating that Chinese Public Health officials and scientists have been transparent in sharing their research and effective with their containment measures.
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Old 6th May 2020, 10:57
  #37 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
Why does there need to be any reparations at all? This was a natural disaster so to speak. You wouldnít expect reparations if a volcano had erupted.

Different countries around the world have taken different paths, and some may be better than others but only with the knowledge of hindsight.

Just chalk it up as a life experience and move on as best you can.
An idle thought crossed my mind that there might be questions of negligence. Add to that if you like, an individual quest for revenge by those who have seen their businesses and careers go up in smoke and witnessed the unkind deaths of their closest and maybe, just maybe you will understand that some, even the many, will look for some kind of recompense. It is human nature.
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Old 6th May 2020, 11:22
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
And with fake E marks on everything they make, regardless of any standards or safety checks.
There used to be a running joke amongst importers that the CE mark stood for China export. Conversations typically went along the lines: "You want CE mark on product? No problem!"
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Old 6th May 2020, 11:27
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
Whether there was any cover up or not, it wouldnít have made any difference. Outside of Asia nobody wanted to listen. Even once the whole situation became clear western nations still covered their eyes and pretended nothing was happening.

Itís just todayís society. Someone has to be to blame for everything, and you can be sure it would never be yourself.
Very true. Many people on social media thought the whole situation in China was highly amusing, like they had it coming to them and that something like that could never happen here.
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Old 6th May 2020, 11:34
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Kremmen View Post
Add to that if you like, an individual quest for revenge
The last time the Western (read US) world had a similar "quest for revenge" and lashed out at any target after a traumatic event even if the culpability of who they were attacking was negligible for that traumatic event it lead to two wars, one pointless and one endless that cascaded an entire region into war and mayhem, negatively affecting the lives of tens of millions. If a similar "quest for revenge" is exacted against China it will probably negatively affect the lives of billions.

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