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With the world distracted, who's going to try what?

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With the world distracted, who's going to try what?

Old 16th Mar 2020, 16:11
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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And both conditions will usually fail for old people encountered outside their homes.
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Old 16th Mar 2020, 16:18
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
And both conditions will usually fail for old people encountered outside their homes.
Agreed, but that has nothing at all to do with only having been in the UK for less than 15 days.

All it takes is for the appropriate official to believe that someone (anyone) MAY be infected for them to be forcibly isolated:

Isolation of persons suspected to be infected with Coronavirus

8.—(1) This regulation applies where Condition A or B (set out in regulation 4) is met in relation to a person (“P”).

(2) The Secretary of State or a registered public health consultant may require P to be kept in isolation, if the Secretary of State or, as the case may be, registered public health consultant —

(a)has reasonable grounds to believe that P is, or may be, infected or contaminated with Coronavirus; and

(b)considers that it is necessary and proportionate to do so in order to reduce or remove the risk of P infecting or contaminating others.

(3) Where a registered public health consultant has reasonable grounds to believe that P is, or may be, infected or contaminated with Coronavirus, the registered public health consultant may detain P pending the decision of the Secretary of State or, as the case may be, registered public health consultant under paragraph (2).

(4) Where paragraph (2) applies, the Secretary of State or, as the case may be, registered public health consultant may impose on or in relation to P one or more screening requirements.

(5) Where a special restriction or requirement is imposed under this regulation, the person imposing the restriction or requirement must express it to be contingent on the incidence or transmission of Coronavirus constituting a serious and imminent threat to public health as referred to in regulation 3.

(6) Paragraph (1) does not affect the exercise of any powers by virtue of regulation 5(1)(c).
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Old 16th Mar 2020, 20:01
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Turbine, I accept most of what you say, although if things continue on the present path for another six months, a declaration of martial law may not be out of the question (I really hope I'm wrong, but my rather pessimistic crystal ball on this over the last six weeks has proved remarkably and frighteningly accurate ).
However, I'm not a Republican, nor did I vote for Trump - I'm an independent and absolutely refuse to align with any political party. In fact, the politicians currently running Washington state have effectively disenfranchised me (along with ~30% of Washington state voters who identify as independents) from voting in the primaries by requiring a public declaration of a party affiliation in order to vote in the primary (go ahead, ask me how I feel about that ). I'm rather surprised such a requirement is even legal (it's a very recent change), but the Washington state AG is a worthless political hack who's too busy filing lawsuits against Trump to be bothered with actually doing the job of Attorney General .
Didn't mean to imply you were a Republican. I thought I was being careful in saying, "Sounds to me like a Republican getting nervous. Bad idea, not a logical step or right thing to do and it's not going to happen." But I guess I wasn't careful enough, I'm sorry about that.

I am not a member of any Party, I just vote for the person that I feel will do the best job in a particular elected position. In the primary elections In Ohio you have to declare which party's ballot you want to receive R, D or I. It was done for a good reason.

I did vote for Mike DeWine, a Republican as Governor. I am not disappointed. He did an admirable job in Dayton to keep the aftermath of the mass shooting in the entertainment district from mushrooming out of control as well as consoling the victim's families. He has been very proactive in guiding the state through the Coronavirus pandemic. He positioned a knowledgable medical doctor as Director of Ohio Department of Health. The previous Governor put his political cronies in that position. Neither of the two he positioned were medical doctors or knew anything about leading a health department. Everything DeWine has done has been to keep as many citizens safe as possible. Politically, Ohio is a Republican controlled state in the suburbs and rural areas and Democrat controlled in the major cities. He has managed to work with both factions constructively.


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Old 16th Mar 2020, 21:34
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Turbine D, read you 5 by here in Zinzinnati! Governor DeWine acquits himself very well. It is obvious that he cares for the people of Ohio rather than political subsets of constituents.

- Ed

Last edited by cavuman1; 19th Mar 2020 at 17:29. Reason: Spelling
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Old 17th Mar 2020, 09:39
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Agreed, but that has nothing at all to do with only having been in the UK for less than 15 days.

All it takes is for the appropriate official to believe that someone (anyone) MAY be infected for them to be forcibly isolated:
It has to be a reasonable belief. It is not uncommon for the courts to find that even secretaries of state have acted on an unreasonable belief. Now, people who have just arrived in the UK have no such defence - the Secretary of State and his agents may lawfully act on the belief that everyone who has just entered the UK may be carrying Covid-19 - just as is effectively happening in some countries.

Let me give a concrete example. One can't place Diane Abbott under house arrest just because she is a diabetic.
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Old 17th Mar 2020, 14:19
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Richard W View Post
It has to be a reasonable belief. It is not uncommon for the courts to find that even secretaries of state have acted on an unreasonable belief. Now, people who have just arrived in the UK have no such defence - the Secretary of State and his agents may lawfully act on the belief that everyone who has just entered the UK may be carrying Covid-19 - just as is effectively happening in some countries.

Let me give a concrete example. One can't place Diane Abbott under house arrest just because she is a diabetic.

First off the legislation makes no reference to "house arrest" anywhere in it, as far as I can see.

What is clear is that as long as there are reasonable grounds to believe that someone MAY be either infected by, OR contaminated with, the virus then they can be detained. It has effectively granted a power of arrest for a new offence, suspicion of being infected with this virus, or suspicion of being contaminated with it.

I'm sure that when Matt Hancock signed this into law a month ago he probably didn't envision it being put to widespread use, nevertheless this SI does provide a legitimate way to detain people for what seems to be a new potential offence.

We all know that the police need reasonable suspicion to arrest people, or force them to do some things (like take a breath test), but equally it's pretty common knowledge that grounds can always be found after the event. Having been randomly stopped for a roadside breath test, by a group of officers who had set up a random breath testing station in a lay-by a few years ago, I'm well aware of just how easy it is to have "reasonable suspicion". I was stopped and asked to give a breath test. I asked why, and was told that it was late on a Friday night and they were aware that it was pay day and it was likely that people had been out drinking. I asked for the specific grounds for giving me a breath test (i.e. their reasonable suspicion that I may have been drinking) and was told that they didn't need it, and that if I refused I'd be arrested. As it happens I hadn't had a drop to drink, so took the test, rather than have an argument, but it illustrates how powers can be abused.
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Old 17th Mar 2020, 15:53
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by towrope View Post
My money is on the US elections - Cheeto Mussolini will either suspend the presidential election or declare it invalid if/when he gets clobbered. Either way I can't see him leaving the White House voluntarily. Of course at this rate he may be leaving feet first if he comes down with COVID-19.
Guess we’re further into the hysteria than thought, the nutcases that used to operate in the background are emerging from the shadows.
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Old 17th Mar 2020, 20:01
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
First off the legislation makes no reference to "house arrest" anywhere in it, as far as I can see.
Article 2, option (b) in the definition of isolation:
“isolation” in relation to a person means the separation of that person from any other person in in such a manner as to prevent infection or contamination (with Coronavirus)—
(a) at a facility designated, by notice published on www.gov.uk, for the purposes of these Regulations by the Secretary of State;
(b) in that person’s home;
(c) in a hospital; or
(d) at another suitable place;
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 00:33
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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No one.

Everyone, NK, Putin, Iran,etc, knows that if they do anything they shouldn't do they will be clobbered immediately, with no sympathy from anyone anywhere. The clobbering will be with maximum force and no kid gloves.

Reason: Everyone is fighting a far more dangerous problem that will affect the entire world for decades to come and have no time to bother with diplomatic niceties or measured steps. The affected nations will send in the troops with a mandate to get it done and over as quickly as possible, and no one will care what they may have done to the naughty one(s).

Plomong
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 14:39
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Plomong,

Who will do the "clobbering?"

Who will decide that any activity is that of someone "trying it on?"

"Troops" can catch a virus too you know.
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 15:46
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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"Troops" can catch a virus too you know.
Cyber warfare?
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 19:31
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
He was going to do that anyway.
My question is: will this get the opposition stirred up enough that they ponder the lead plebiscite?
"At least it is stable", the news commentary gave some comfort after announcing the vote was 380 to nil and 40 abstaining...
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 23:29
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Plomong,

Who will do the "clobbering?"

Who will decide that any activity is that of someone "trying it on?"

"Troops" can catch a virus too you know.
Sorry Sergeant, I cant play war today, I have the flu.

Fight on and understand the military values mission accomplishment over troop welfare.
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 03:28
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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The rich progressive globalist caste of the EU and affiliated supranational ideologists, will regroup (as EU or as something else) and resurface offering order and governance to a devastated Europe, whose elected governments where overthrown, sorry overblown by a crisis derived from a pandemic, and replaced by emergency administrations run by experts with WHO-affiliation. The sovereign as in "one man one vote" will not be a concept represented in that offer.

Last edited by Krautwald; 19th Mar 2020 at 03:38.
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 13:41
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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West Coat,

Fine, but that still does not explain who will decide when somebody is "trying it on" and thus generate this notional clobbering.

I think the world's military are going to be far too busy to worry about such nonsense.
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 23:23
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Guess we’re further into the hysteria than thought, the nutcases that used to operate in the background are emerging from the shadows.
Well not exactly, and that wasn't very nice of you. Just speculating on what the craven idiot would consider. After all he is a Mussolini at heart.

Fortunately the 20th Amendment to the US Constitution has the line of succession clearly spelled out. If no election, the Pres & VP are out on Jan 21st regardless and those in the Senate & House whose terms are up are out Jan 3rd.

Have a look at this article from Wikipedia for more info.
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Old 20th Mar 2020, 01:11
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by towrope View Post
Well not exactly, and that wasn't very nice of you. Just speculating on what the craven idiot would consider. After all he is a Mussolini at heart.

Fortunately the 20th Amendment to the US Constitution has the line of succession clearly spelled out. If no election, the Pres & VP are out on Jan 21st regardless and those in the Senate & House whose terms are up are out Jan 3rd.

Have a look at this article from Wikipedia for more info.
Take issue with my post then insult the President. Yeah, he’s fair game, then again so are you and others who post on JB.
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Old 20th Mar 2020, 01:12
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
West Coat,

Fine, but that still does not explain who will decide when somebody is "trying it on" and thus generate this notional clobbering.

I think the world's military are going to be far too busy to worry about such nonsense.
Not sure I understand your intent.
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Old 20th Mar 2020, 05:15
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krautwald View Post
The rich progressive globalist caste of the EU and affiliated supranational ideologists, will regroup (as EU or as something else) and resurface offering order and governance to a devastated Europe, whose elected governments where overthrown, sorry overblown by a crisis derived from a pandemic, and replaced by emergency administrations run by experts with WHO-affiliation. The sovereign as in "one man one vote" will not be a concept represented in that offer.
Nice idea to think about while self isolating, but it is the reverse of the truth. Each 'EU' country has acted independently and closed their own border. Not much sign of central control from Brussels.

The closer to the EU the country seems to be, the more independently they seem to be acting. France. Freedom of movement? Not at the moment. Not even within; let alone across national borders.

Ironically the only state with country free movement across borders is the UK; with a continuation of freedom of movement across the UK-Eire border.

From a BBC report:'The European Commission is planning to ban all non-essential travel to the European Union after more countries within the bloc closed their borders to try to limit the spread of coronavirus.

Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said she would ask leaders to implement the measures on Tuesday.

"The less travel, the more we can contain the virus," she said.

Meanwhile, tough new measures in France restricting movement from the home are coming into effect on Tuesday.'
So the EU is way behind and powerless.
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Old 20th Mar 2020, 06:56
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Hearing from Germany that they are talking emergency government of experts. Other countries are having such expert figures getting ready, too, built up by progressive media. In all countries, it a scientist with ties to pharma&finance&WHO, that people are willing to turn to in despair. This may mean the beginning of a corporate/privat money power grab with no elections for whatever time these experts deem medically appropriate. In the far background, state vs. corporatism things going on as well, like a German court undertaking an emergency case hearing where they (finally) declared the massive worldwide revenue tax fraud illegal and prosecutable, just before the lock down. There is a corporate power grab going on in the background, and the lines may be unclear even WITHIN governments now. They are trying to put the same people in charge that where not prosecuted after 2007/8. Again. Everybody stay safe, stay healthy for now but don't be blind to what is happening to your country.

If you can see what I mean, please spread it, too many people don't get it.

Last edited by Krautwald; 20th Mar 2020 at 07:45.
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