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Wood and coal. While understandable, this is going to come as a shock to many.

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Wood and coal. While understandable, this is going to come as a shock to many.

Old 25th Feb 2020, 10:51
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Wood and coal. While understandable, this is going to come as a shock to many.

I'm feeling miserable in a rented bungalow. Plans to find a suitable do-upper probably won't happen in this lifetime. I've even donated my beloved woodwork bench to a boat restoration lady. But always, in the back of my mind, I dream of the fireside I enjoyed for decades in my Frinton home. My neighbours loved a fire too, and we were all expert at not making heavy lingering smoke. But our skills would have gone unrewarded I fear. No Brownie points for crafted fires.

My wood stayed in a covered area for at least a year. Very hot and airy in the summer. Then it came into the boilerhouse for a month before being used. Even then, I'd get a banger or two. Carpet buning smells would see us rushing about with appropriate implements. Classical pattern; decades and still couldn't spot the burns.

My mate in Ireland buys kiln dried. He loves his fires. So does his cat. He should be okay.

I used to get the fire going about sundown and mix small coal bits with the wood. I'd concentrate the fire into a tiny core and soon get it up to white heat. Well, bright orange. Only for minutes did I let noticeable smoke leave the chimney. Hmmm, the amount of soot I got was . . . a lot.

Anyway, academic now. The new owner of the house remarked how well the fire would draw. Sigh. It was the heart of the home.

But joy, my vindictive side has me gloating that no one else will be able to have one. Ha ha ha ha . . . departs chortling inanely into the smog.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-515818...B8e4ery9fs61lM
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 11:11
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This BMJ paper from a while ago is worth a read: https://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.e8446


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Old 25th Feb 2020, 11:41
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In the Yorkshire house we have 2nr Charnwood stoves, along with 2nr Bunkers outside with approx 3 tons of smoke less coal in, and we burn these most evenings and weekends, though usually only one lit at a time unless we have a house full. As the house is at 1100ft height we tend to burn fires from Oct - April and have even been known to lite them on wet days in the summer !! The house has LPG heating but the Ranges give a better heat plus, you can roast Chestnuts and toast Crumpets !. The Munich flat has a very fancy log burning Swedish stove, but to be honest as it is on the top floor and in the Altstadt ie the city centre, it never seems to get that cold, and the logs are now 2 years old both by the fire, and in the lock up in the basement.
The new regs only effect coal and green timber, so who ever bought your house could continue to burn smokeless or kiln dried timber. We have some timber, but do not find you get the same calorific heat as smokeless so its more for the look of things. I would suggest that it may be more of a problem in old mining areas as old people used to get free / subsidised coal or something like post retirement.

Kind regards
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 13:12
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They have been allowing the smokeless zone regs to be ignored for years. It is a town/ city problem. Out here in the countryside it's no issue. We have no gas so burn mostly wood and smokeless. The proposed regs seem to refer to what I consider kindling.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 17:54
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
They have been allowing the smokeless zone regs to be ignored for years. It is a town/ city problem. Out here in the countryside it's no issue. We have no gas so burn mostly wood and smokeless. The proposed regs seem to refer to what I consider kindling.
I'm not so sure about the kindling, but you are right this pollution is an issue for concentrated conurbations; out in the rural districts getting heating fuel is much more of a problem. This rissole of an 'idea' will just increase fuel poverty.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 18:11
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The pollution is the same wherever you are - it's just the townies are closer together - so don't expect a different set of rules..........
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 18:21
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The problem is ... the next step. TOTAL ban and only electric heating, for which the authorities do not have enough generating power especially given that everyone should drive electric cars. We are driven by muppets.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 18:57
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FWIW we have an all-electric house, and I drive an electric car. We pay ~48/month for electricity, less than we paid just for gas to heat our old house. Easy enough to do, just needs some care and attention to design.

We live in the country, but in a deep valley. Whenever we get still, cold, weather the whole village is blanketed with thick smog from half a dozen houses in the village that still use wood stoves. This often happens at night, and we wake up in a house that stinks of smoke. It's at the stage now where some in the village are getting very annoyed at the selfish actions of the few that insist on smoking the rest of us like kippers, with no regard for the health impact of their actions. Daft thing is that it's cheaper to burn smokeless fuel, given the price of logs around here.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 19:05
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
FWIW we have an all-electric house, and I drive an electric car. We pay ~48/month for electricity, less than we paid just for gas to heat our old house. Easy enough to do, just needs some care and attention to design.

Electricity that comes from Drax power station that used to burn coal from down the road and now burns wood pellets shipped all the way from America..

I'm sure somehow that is saving the planet but..
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 20:05
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Originally Posted by cashash View Post
Electricity that comes from Drax power station that used to burn coal from down the road and now burns wood pellets shipped all the way from America..

I'm sure somehow that is saving the planet but..
The Drax thing is just scandalous, and should never have been allowed, but there was a lot of political pressure to reduce the number of coal fired power stations, at around the time we closed down all our oil fired power stations. The only saving grace with Drax is that they use pretty good scrubbers, so their emissions are pretty low.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 20:06
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Electricity that comes from Drax power station
Heloo cashash

If you check the saintly VP959s location you will see he is so far from Drax that he could only receive a couple of electrons from Yorkshire. He has such powerful green credentials his neighbours call him "Greta"
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 20:23
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@VP959 - Is it true that on a cold day when you need to use the car heater you can only drive about one third of the distance that you'd drive on a warmer day?
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 20:30
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Originally Posted by packapoo View Post
@VP959 - Is it true that on a cold day when you need to use the car heater you can only drive about one third of the distance that you'd drive on a warmer day?
depends what coal your powering it with
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 21:22
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Originally Posted by packapoo View Post
@VP959 - Is it true that on a cold day when you need to use the car heater you can only drive about one third of the distance that you'd drive on a warmer day?
EV range drops a bit in cold weather, same as range drops (or MPG decreases, if you want to view it that way) with a petrol or diesel car. I've owned the Tesla since November last year, so only in winter, and the range has never been less than 270 miles. In theory, the official range is supposed to be 348 miles, but the official range is very like the official fuel consumption of petrol or diesel cars, a bit optimistic. My guess is that the summer range might be around 320 miles.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 21:47
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VP, what was the purchase cost of your fashionable vehicle?
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 21:59
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Sheesh 320 miles at best!?! I used to get 330 miles out of a tank of petrol in my 1988 Nissan Sunny on nothing but short journeys. I'm currently getting way more than double that out of my diesel i40. France & back on a tank. Refuel time under 10 minutes including queuing to pay for it. I don't see the electric revolution overtaking that in the next 12 months.

Looked into putting ground source or solar assist heating into my place & my mum's, given that both our houses have what most would consider to be huuuge gardens. On current technology, we'd need to double our ground space, even to put in vertical borehole systems going down at least 100ft/30m. The Holyrood Parish Council is proposing to outlaw gas central heating for all newbuilds by ten years hence (may be less now, haven't heard wee Jimmy K's minions latest bid to be greener than most in the past couple of hours). We're already getting short of power generating capacity as it is before everyone switches to high speed milk floats, and while it might be fine to switch to LED from incandescent and still get the same light output, you can't do that with heat, Watts is Watts.
Time for everyone to start knitting the big thick Arran jumpers again, coz it's going to get fair chilly folks.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 23:32
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It's easy to save the planet - we just need to adopt the North Korean model...



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Old 25th Feb 2020, 23:33
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Petrol heating in some light twins used to give me the screaming hab-dabs. Very rarely flew them but my sphincter still scrinches when I think of it.

This smoking people out business. My actor neighbour pal (back then) and MP (now) described himself as a great bonfire man. One night I awoke to the house full of smoke. We had a discussion about slow burning. I used to enjoy a fast blaze on a windy day, but the rules say after a certain time. WTmerryF is the logic in that?

One of the reasons I moved out of the last rental was that the Combi thing ported out of the back wall between a lovely kitchen picture window and the patio sliding doors. It seemed there was no chimney mod as the air goes in the surround to the fumes output. I mentioned this to Npower and they said they'd send the gas man round. He came, and blanked off my gas supply. The owner's plumber turned up shortly after my pleading call, spitting nails. He said, they're always doing that. Oh, my. I hate this renting business.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 23:37
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I've mentioned this before, but when I bought my Frinton house it was run on oil. I argued for the same deal my (previous owner) pal had enjoyed and finally got 500 loads for 35. Plus I got Green Shield stamps.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 23:44
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My private feeling is to spread your options where possible with backup systems, while the going is good.
Last summer in Chiba Japan they lost their electricity supply when a typhoon blew through at just the wrong angle. For weeks while the pylons were being rebuilt, they had no ability to charge their phones or to use credit, or debit cards, no air conditioning in sweltering heat both day and night, no cooking, no fridge/freezer, no baths and no lights.
EDITORIAL: Restoring power should not be the only goal amid Chiba blackout?The Asahi Shimbun

Those with solar collectors or portable generators for example were a step up from helpless.

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