Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Coronavirus: The Thread

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 22nd Oct 2021, 16:25
  #17521 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,131
Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Pity you have to put your political stance on everything. It is a prejudice.
Seems the natural instinct of the government ( not calling them 'Tories' because some clearly use this as a derogatory term to encourage suspension of normal decency and fairness) at the outset was to grin and bear it and tough it out. News from northern Italy promptly scuppered that. So now the vaccination of the most vulnerable people, and the rest of us, makes that strategy at least feasible.
So not surprised that a government wishing to cap economic harm, and to get the NHS in a position to start the catch up, has reprised that position.
In their place I would too.
It would be nice to avoid the degeneration in discussion which so polluted the Brexit thread. Any chance you can at least try ?
The Gov't, you may be surprised to learn, are responsible for the electorates well being in whatever context is applicable. In this instance, it is health. Whilst the vaccine rollout was a success, this cannot be directly attributed to the Gov't. far more to those who developed the vaccine and the logistics of it being delivered.

In every other respect, criticism of the Gov't is valid when it comes to Covid and how the pandemic was handled by them. Whether you like it or not, Covid and the Gov't are inextricably linked.
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 04:09
  #17522 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
Is the booster jab going to be an ongoing six monthly requirement forever? Asking for a friend who has some spare cash to invest.
I have been told by a medical researcher involved in trials here in australia that they are expecting it to be annually in the same way you get flu shot, probably actually a combined shot for both of them
rattman is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 06:01
  #17523 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Japan
Posts: 863
Yesterday the governors of the hardest-hit areas of Japan (new-infection numbers have suddenly been dropping to close to zero) announced in a joint statement that they would be easing opening hours for restaurants etc., from the end of this month, but November will be set as a test period in order to decide how to treat the year-end festive season.
jolihokistix is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 10:01
  #17524 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,131
We are fortunate to have global contributors.

For Mike Snow therefore, who is in a position to comment directly, how does this report relate to your own perception please ?

Covid: Romania's health system torn apart by pandemic - BBC News
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 10:21
  #17525 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Westnoreastsouth
Posts: 1,418
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Covid and the Chinese Gov't are inextricably linked.
Fixed it for ya KnC
longer ron is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 10:38
  #17526 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,274
Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
Fixed it for ya KnC
And your evidence for this claim is???

I buy the idea possibility that regional governors may have taken too long to fess up to the situation but the idea that somehow the west's, and the USA's new bogey man China were complicit causing or spreading the pandemic is just more right-wing nonsense, mostly pedalled by extremists within the US Republican party.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 11:21
  #17527 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 1,513
Originally Posted by rattman View Post
I have been told by a medical researcher involved in trials here in australia that they are expecting it to be annually in the same way you get flu shot, probably actually a combined shot for both of them
Sounds like the researcher is on a nice earner. If this is going to be mandatory and on-going forever then why not just dump something in the water supply.
cattletruck is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 12:10
  #17528 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kristiansand
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
And your evidence for this claim is???

I buy the idea possibility that regional governors may have taken too long to fess up to the situation but the idea that somehow the west's, and the USA's new bogey man China were complicit causing or spreading the pandemic is just more right-wing nonsense, mostly pedalled by extremists within the US Republican party.
Possibly not, but the PRC certainly took advantage of the virus to spew out some fear. Initially there was their cover up/denial then they swung the other way transmitting images of people falling dead in the streets. No matter how bad it has been in the West, we’ve not experienced that sort of severity so clearly a shabby attempt at propaganda which unhelpful and of no benefit at all to the world community.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/30/...nd-preventable


Last edited by annakm; 23rd Oct 2021 at 13:36.
annakm is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 12:20
  #17529 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 457
Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
Sounds like the researcher is on a nice earner. If this is going to be mandatory and on-going forever then why not just dump something in the water supply.
Because persuading people to inject themselves with tap water will be a bit tricky.
Ninthace is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 13:47
  #17530 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Westnoreastsouth
Posts: 1,418
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
And your evidence for this claim is???

I buy the idea possibility that regional governors may have taken too long to fess up to the situation but the idea that somehow the west's, and the USA's new bogey man China were complicit causing or spreading the pandemic is just more right-wing nonsense, mostly pedalled by extremists within the US Republican party.
ATN - if you think that the chinese guvmint did not initially do a cover up you are truly naive or perhaps reading left wing nonsense
longer ron is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 13:54
  #17531 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,274
Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
ATN - if you think that the chinese guvmint did not initially do a cover up you are truly naive or perhaps reading left wing nonsense
Neither, I strongly recommend not reading right wing nonsense either. They are as bad as each other.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 14:24
  #17532 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Westnoreastsouth
Posts: 1,418
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Neither, I strongly recommend not reading right wing nonsense either. They are as bad as each other.
Well you must be naive if you believe that the chinese guvmint are open and honest LOL
I agree about the press - I read neither L or R wing press
longer ron is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 14:38
  #17533 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,274
Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
Well you must be naive if you believe that the chinese guvmint are open and honest LOL
I agree about the press - I read neither L or R wing press
Is there a government that is?
ATNotts is online now  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 19:16
  #17534 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
We are fortunate to have global contributors.

For Mike Snow therefore, who is in a position to comment directly, how does this report relate to your own perception please ?

Covid: Romania's health system torn apart by pandemic - BBC News
Well, for the most part, the article is accurate. The only thing they failed to mention is that people are finally waking up, and are queuing for vaccinations, establishing new vaccination records every day. These were the queues today in one of our large cities:



One of the main causes for the current situation is that, until recently, the main governing party was too busy with its internal elections for a new leader, and mostly ignored the Delta wave. The trust in government and politicians in general is at an all-time low. So, even when they tell people to do the right thing and get vaccinated, people don't trust them.

And in the summer the politicians were saying the opposite thing, that the vaccinations stopped the virus, and we are ready for any future waves, even when it became clear there was exponential growth after Delta took hold, and it wasn’t clear how high the Delta wave will peak. Instead of being cautious, the authorities kept relaxing the remaining restrictions, despite the low vaccination numbers.

And earlier in the winter and spring, when the vaccinations started, instead of focusing on those most at risk, old people and those with various preconditions, they started vaccinating what they called “the essentials”, including the police, the army, secret services, and their relatives, many of which were young people. That was at a time there weren’t enough vaccines in EU, so that was the limiting factor slowing the vaccinations.

When the vaccinations opened for my age group, I had to drive to a city 500 km away from home, along with my brother and my mother, to get the vaccine we wanted: 2 doses of Moderna, because near home all the slots in the vaccination schedule were reserved for "the essentials".

By the time vaccination was open for everyone, the disinformation campaigns and the fact that the Alpha variant wave was slowing down discouraged many people that initially wanted to get vaccinated. Right now, only about 20% of the people aged 80+ are vaccinated. For those between 50 and 80 years old, the situation is slightly better. Up to 42% vaccinated.

The disinformation campaigns against the vaccines have been very successful. The TV stations gave ample time to the anti-vaccine nuts, and the council that had the responsibility to penalize the media for peddling disinformation did nothing. Probably because the politicians didn’t want to antagonize the media. To top it off, the Romanian Orthodox Church oscillated between being neutral and being outright anti-vaccine. Some influence from the Russian Orthodox Church might have been the reason for that. Recently the Church started telling people to listen to the doctors. But they still refrain from explicitly telling people to get vaccinated.

The education is one reason for the current situation, many Romanians are functionally illiterate. And many educated people, about 20% of the population, have already left the country in the last 30 years, making the situation worse. One ICU doctor was in disbelief that one of her patients, an 80-year-old woman, told her she didn’t get vaccinated because she heard rumors the vaccine would make her sterile. But it’s not just the education. Many other countries where the education is much more of a problem, had more successful vaccination campaigns. It was a perfect storm.

In the last few months, me and some of my friends started strongly considering leaving the country as well, as we lost any hope the political situation will improve. There doesn’t seem to be anything to be optimistic about for the future, the most corrupt politicians are currently in control of the country, and unfortunately the opinion polls indicate they’ll win the next elections as well.

Anyway, if we ignore a few small Caribbean islands, Romania had the largest number of deaths per million for the last 2 weeks, and we are finally seeing some signs the Delta wave peaked here. But it will probably take a few months before the situation in the hospitals will return to some kind of normalcy. This is how the number of deaths per million looks compared to some large countries:


And the real number of deaths is probably much higher, because the excess deaths during the pandemic have been about two times higher than the official numbers for COVID deaths. The Economist has some models estimating the real number of deaths, based mostly on the excess deaths to COVID deaths ratio, and according to them currently only Serbia comes even close to Romania for the gravity of the situation. This is how it looks on a map:




Yes, that red blob in the middle consists of Romania and Serbia. Source: https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...aths-estimates You might need to create a free account to access it.
MikeSnow is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 21:25
  #17535 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Bristol,UK
Posts: 225
Mike Snow, thank you for such a detailed report. I can only hope that the situation improves for your country.
In the UK the problem is not the functionally illiterate, it is people who think they know better than the experts.
under_exposed is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 21:35
  #17536 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Oz
Posts: 258
Originally Posted by under_exposed View Post
Mike Snow, thank you for such a detailed report. I can only hope that the situation improves for your country.
In the UK the problem is not the functionally illiterate, it is people who think they know better than the experts.
BBC Radio 5 tonight. The Steven Nolan show. Has an incredibly passionate interview with a high level doctor (Philip Lee?) who makes a very similar statement. His outspoken contempt for the way this pandemic has been handled, especially by Johnson etc is very refreshing. Worth a listen on BBC Sounds.
HOVIS is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 22:54
  #17537 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 13,361
Originally Posted by HOVIS View Post
BBC Radio 5 tonight. The Steven Nolan show. Has an incredibly passionate interview with a high level doctor (Philip Lee?) who makes a very similar statement. His outspoken contempt for the way this pandemic has been handled, especially by Johnson etc is very refreshing. Worth a listen on BBC Sounds.
Presumably Phillip Lee, former Lib Dem MP for Bracknell, who has previously been outspoken about the Government's handling of the pandemic.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 23:12
  #17538 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 457
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Presumably Phillip Lee, former Lib Dem MP for Bracknell, who has previously been outspoken about the Government's handling of the pandemic.
One man’s “outspoken” is another man’s “critical”.
Ninthace is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2021, 09:53
  #17539 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 1,513
I guess we are now at that stage where business can go back to being business again.

From https://islandtimes.org/bewildering-...roduction/?amp

Federal Health Minister Greg Hunt confirmed this morning the government would not renew its contract with CSL beyond the 51 million doses the company had already promised to deliver.
Australia could have been a supplier of AZ for the local region to help poorer neighbouring countries that have limited resources for acquiring vaccines. But it looks like Pfizer is the politician's kick back of choice, perhaps because AZ being free had no kickback to offer.
cattletruck is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2021, 10:31
  #17540 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Under a gooseberry bush
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by cattletruck View Post
I guess we are now at that stage where business can go back to being business again.

From https://islandtimes.org/bewildering-...roduction/?amp



Australia could have been a supplier of AZ for the local region to help poorer neighbouring countries that have limited resources for acquiring vaccines. But it looks like Pfizer is the politician's kick back of choice, perhaps because AZ being free had no kickback to offer.
You've possibly got a point there.

The U.K. seems to be using Pfizer for its booster shots, irrespective of which vaccine you had first time around. I appreciate there has been some observational benefit from mixing the types, but those that received Pfizer first don’t seem to be getting AZ - although maybe someone can confirm this?

Or maybe the U.K. just has a job lot of Pfizer that needed using before its expiry?


Incidentally, if we end up with another Christmas lockdown, I will be bearing this in mind:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58993387


I know my own family pretty well too, so therefore by JRM’s logic, I won’t need to mask up and can mix freely with them too despite government rules.

BWSBoy6 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.