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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 5th Aug 2021, 11:02
  #16861 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
No after who we may want,,,,politics is driving the current Government's policies rather than the science.
Would that be the US or UK government?
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 11:04
  #16862 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Danny Boy,

I cannot ascribe a motive to all of this....but fully agree the travel policy, and immigration law enforcement of the current administration is a disaster....which also had direct implications of ignoring the science of Covid prevention.

So much of what has been done is being done for strictly political reasons and not for the direct benefit of the public at large.

We can differ on the political part but the healthcare and response to the pandemic but at the end of the day....we are seeing a gross failure of the Federal /government to fairly and properly address the many problems itself has caused.

Then, we see Government using Big Tech and the media to buttress its actions and depriving the Public of the truth of what is happening and we all are being adversely affected.

No after who we may want,,,,politics is driving the current Government's policies rather than the science.
Interested to know what you are using as your science source. You decry Fox and the MSM so what reputable source is your information coming from?
Surely the seeds of your current problems were sewn, watered and fertilised by your previous administration, notably the Whitehouse itself and the GOP, Fox etc are keeping up the good work? Please, if you want a prolonged argument, take it to the US politics thread
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 11:20
  #16863 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Then, we see Government using Big Tech and the media to buttress its actions and depriving the Public of the truth of what is happening and we all are being adversely affected.
It's all a massive conspiracy, right?
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 14:02
  #16864 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
The "science" seems to be telling us that vaccines are not very effective for the Delta Variant...
I'm reminded of an old WW1 cartoon


The vaccines give substation protection against catching severe covid. They also provide significant protection of catching any infection, and substantially reduce the R number of a vaccinated group/population.

Re vaccine take-up, I'm reminded of the old ethnic moral story which ends:
Back to the synagogue.................. "My God, why have you forsaken me?? I've lost my business, my house, my car and my wife and children are starving. I don't often ask you for help and I have always been a good servant to you. Why won't you just let me win the lotto this one time so I can get my life back in order???".

Suddenly there is a blinding flash of light as the heavens open and Jacob is confronted by the voice of GOD himself:

"JACOB, MEET ME HALF WAY ON THIS ONE, BUY A ******* TICKET".

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Old 5th Aug 2021, 14:12
  #16865 (permalink)  
 
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If you know a a better 'ole

How about gargling with a mixture of hydroxychloroquine and bleach and swallowing a live light bulb? I heard it from the very highest authority so it must be science.

What happened to scarf lady by the way?
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 15:04
  #16866 (permalink)  
 
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Some of you may find this BBC Radio 4 programme of interest

Karen Stenner and the authoritarian predisposition https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000y7sq
Political psychologist and behavioural economist Karen Stenner, author of The Authoritarian Dynamic, explains how research shows a third of humanity is predisposed to authoritarianism. She tells Helen what happens when this predisposition is activated by feelings of threat - and what liberal democracy can do to respond to the challenges this raises.

Certainly anything that aids cross-cultural communication and understanding would help at the moment.

Last edited by Peter H; 5th Aug 2021 at 15:30.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 15:35
  #16867 (permalink)  
 
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I guess its science if you believe it and find it credible, and "science" if you don't.

And of course, Dr Fauci is either a scientist or a "scientist", depending on which side of the fence you sit.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 15:39
  #16868 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
What happened to scarf lady by the way?
Its probably the only time I've ever see someone compel, with literally every fibre of their body, for the Earth to open up and swallow them whole. Truly amazing to witness.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 15:56
  #16869 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
Its probably the only time I've ever see someone compel, with literally every fibre of their body, for the Earth to open up and swallow them whole. Truly amazing to witness.
What a shame neither she nor Dr Fauci ever had the courage to stand up at any point and just say "Sir, you are a raving idiot and have no idea what you are a talking about". God it would have been good!
Mind you there have been times, that I have lacked the courage too, though apparently it did not go unnoticed. After one major meeting with a vey grown up I was advised that sighing, throwing my pen down and looking at ceiling, could be construed as a lack of support for a damn silly idea.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 20:44
  #16870 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
What happened to scarf lady by the way?
Dr. Birx. Yes, that was excruciating.

But the leader bowled on unperturbed: “I am The President and you are fake news“ That taught the Press Corps not to expect any level of seriousness and accountability.

The UK has also had (has) its own fool in charge who impeded a grown-up response to the virus. And nearly killed himself in the process.
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 06:07
  #16871 (permalink)  
 
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Please, if you want a prolonged argument, take it to the US politics thread.
Is this the UK Covid Thread?

Last time I checked Covid is a worldwide problem....not just in the UK.

While traveling today doing a 700 mile trip by carI was held captive to National Public Radio (NPR) all day and listened to that source of news and discussion about Covid in the USA....and the several NPR Expert contributors mirrored many of my observations about the problems that have been self inflicted by the Federal Government and Local Governments....delays in the bureaucrats in incorporating new information and data, the lack of a Full Approval of the Vaccines (something they say. may happen Today (Friday), the effect that approval will have on Government and Private Enterprise mandatory measures that are seeing much resistance currently, the effect of Constitutional Law re those Mandates, the powers of the President re Executive Orders, and many other topics. Much of the discussion had to do with Moderna's report that they might have to produce a Booster come the Fall as there are signs the effectiveness seems to be decreasing after five to six months. Some of what they had to say was exactly as in some of the CDC information I have linked in earlier posts which should come as no surprise as even by your standards the US CDC must qualify as a legitimate source.

One example of the effects of bureaucracy in this situation is discussed in this Filing where the US DHS is challenging the CDC and an injunction.

The question that the Judge shall have to decide is what does the Law have to say on this conflict between two executive branch organizations.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/0...eclaration.pdf



Unless I am mistaken....many of the topics being discussed today are applicable to the UK and the EU as we are having to deal with the Delta Variant and no doubt will probably be dealing with more variants in the future.

Last edited by SASless; 6th Aug 2021 at 06:26.
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 07:42
  #16872 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Last time I checked Covid is a worldwide problem....not just in the UK.
Yes, it is, which is why others and myself pointed out that your argument about immigrants at the US southern border was best posted in the US politics thread as it isn't driving COVID infections around the world.
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 07:48
  #16873 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
I guess its science if you believe it and find it credible, and "science" if you don't.

And of course, Dr Fauci is either a scientist or a "scientist", depending on which side of the fence you sit.
I agree, but would add a caveat - it's not just believing in science, but understanding it. I suspect many believe in science, but simply don't understand what it is and how it works, and if it doesn't work the way they believe it should, then it's "science" or "scientists".
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 08:13
  #16874 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
After one major meeting with a vey grown up I was advised that sighing, throwing my pen down and looking at ceiling, could be construed as a lack of support for a damn silly idea.
You just tell them that you were trying to kill a very persistent fly and you missed with the pen. Works every time.
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 08:42
  #16875 (permalink)  
 
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Mixing and matching vaccines to control delta variant

From Luke Taylor in New Scientist. 7 August Edition.

A growing number of countries that have been depending on vaccines developed in China are losing faith that these alone can rein in the coronavirus as they face continued surges in infections and the spread of the more transmissible delta variant.

On 1 August, Cambodia became the latest nation to approve the use of a different vaccine as a booster shot. It will administer the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine as a third dose to bolster immune protection for those who have already received two doses of the Sinovac or Sinopharm vaccines.

In the past month, Bahrain, Indonesia, Thailand, Uruguay and the United Arab Emirates have all begun mixing and matching vaccines in a tactic known as heterologous vaccination in the hope of improving protection and stemming transmission.

Although China’s two leading vaccines have gained emergency approval from the World Health Organization, not much phase III trial data has been made public for either. The jabs from Sinopharm and Sinovac Biotech both use inactivated virus particles to provoke an immune response. This is a more traditional approach than the Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech mRNA vaccines, but has yielded worse results.

Studies of the Sinovac vaccine have produced disparate findings. A study of healthcare workers in Brazil found in January that it was just 50 per cent effective at preventing symptomatic cases of covid-19, well below the 94 per cent reported for the Moderna vaccine and 95 per cent for the Pfizer/BioNTech jab. Trials in Indonesia and Turkey, however, found that it was 65 per cent and 91 per cent effective, respectively.

The Sinopharm and Sinovac vaccines are a lifeline for many countries in Africa, Central and South America, and South-East Asia that have been beaten to supplies of other vaccines by richer nations. Together, the two vaccines are being used in more than 100 countries.

But there has been disappointment with the efficacy of these vaccines, which may be even lower against the delta variant. Figures on this are yet to be published, but in July, Israel’s health ministry reported that the efficacy of the Pfizer/BioNTech jab against delta infection may be as low as 39 per cent, although other studies have shown better results.


I would not be surprised if Sinopharm and Sinovac’s efficacy is as low as 30 per cent or even less against delta,” says Jin Dong-Yan, a virologist at the University of Hong Kong.

Sinovac has since recommended that a third dose of its vaccine be administered to boost protection, following a study which found that antibodies declined to below the level obtained from natural infection six months after a second dose.

Meanwhile, some countries in South-East Asia and Central and South America are continuing to face large outbreaks despite much of their population being double vaccinated. Chile locked down for over a month on 12 June to stem a deadly surge in cases, after having given both doses to 47.3 per cent of Chileans and a single dose to 61 per cent. Like Uruguay – also a regional leader in vaccination efforts that has faced large outbreaks – about three-quarters of shots administered there have been the Sinovac vaccine.

In Indonesia, where the delta variant is driving a record spike in deaths, 131 healthcare workers have died from covid-19 since June, according to the independent data group Lapor COVID-19. Most were vaccinated with the Sinovac shot. Indonesia is now rolling out Moderna shots to healthcare workers as a booster.

There are concerns that Chinese shots may be failing at home too. Outbreaks emerged in Guangzhou in June, and in late July in Nanjing. More than 57 per cent of China’s population has been fully vaccinated. The country is reportedly considering using mRNA boosters.

However, the Chinese vaccines remain a crucial line of defence against the pandemic worldwide. They might not be as effective at reducing transmission, but the Chinese vaccines continue to prevent hospitalisation and death, says Mauricio Nogueira, a virologist at the FAMERP medical school in São José do Rio Preto, Brazil.

Covid-19 mortalities in Uruguay were reduced by as much as 97 per cent with Sinovac vaccines. And in an experiment in Serrana, a city of 45,000 in Brazil, deaths decreased by 95 per cent when residents were inoculated with Sinovac.

“We need Chinese vaccines to keep saving lives,” says Nogueira. Heterologous vaccination is likely to become the most effective solution, he says, but for now, Chinese vaccines are vital for countries like Brazil, where only 19 per of the population is fully vaccinated.

When the global dearth of vaccines turns into a glut, aspirations should be raised though, says Dong-Yan. “If we actually want to bring an end to the pandemic, to offer better protection and eradicate the virus from the human population, then we need better vaccines,” he says. “And the reality is we can do better. We already have better vaccines.”
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 08:57
  #16876 (permalink)  
 
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Myocarditis more common after Covid infection than after vaccination.

One of the concerns people have about vaccines is reports of incidents of myocarditis after vaccination, particularly in younger males. The following article puts the risk into perspective.

HEART inflammation triggered by some covid-19 vaccines has been a concern, especially in younger people, but a preliminary study suggests that in those most affected, it is six times more likely to occur after a coronavirus infection than after vaccination.

In the past few months, some cases of this condition, known as myocarditis, have been recorded following the use of the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines. This has prompted concern particularly in the US and Israel, as these two countries have led the way in vaccinating younger people.

The reaction happens most often in men and boys aged under 30 after their second dose, and is usually seen within 10 days, says Alma Iacob at Imperial College London. But many health bodies around the world say the benefits of vaccination still outweigh the risks for most people.

Now a study in the US has analysed how often myocarditis occurs following infection with the coronavirus. Researchers analysed the records of healthcare organisations that cover a fifth of the US population. They found that, during the first 12 months of the pandemic, males aged 12 to 17 were most likely to develop myocarditis within three months of catching covid-19, at a rate of about 450 cases per million infections.

This compares with 67 cases of myocarditis per million males of the same age following their second dose of a Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna vaccine, according to figures from the US Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. Researchers added together cases after first and second doses to reach a total rate of 77 cases per million in this male age group triggered by vaccination, a sixth that seen after infection.

“If you’re focused on heart inflammation, the safer bet is to take the vaccine,” says Mendel Singer at Case Western Reserve University in Ohio, who helped carry out the study.

Signs of myocarditis include chest pain, breathlessness and palpitations. Symptoms range from so mild that they go unnoticed to severe, involving permanent heart damage or death. However, extreme forms are rare and no fatalities have been reported after vaccination in the US.

The causes of myocarditis are unclear. One idea is that it occurs when the immune system attacks the heart, but this hasn’t been proven. Neither is it known why it happens most often in younger males.
Mild cases are usually treated with over-the-counter anti-inflammatory drugs such as ibuprofen and most people recover within a few months, says Iacob. Other triggers of the condition include flu and the flu vaccine, some medications and some illegal drugs.The small risk of myocarditis after the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is one reason why the UK’s Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) hasn’t yet recommended this vaccine – the only one licensed for use in under-18s in the UK – for most children aged 12 and over. While countries such as Ireland and the US are letting teenagers get vaccinated, the JCVI said in July that only younger people who are highly vulnerable or living with someone with a weak immune system could have the jab.

Iacob says people who have been vaccinated or had covid-19 should be aware of possible symptoms of myocarditis, especially chest pain that is burning or sharp and worsens on changing position.

Clare Wilson, New Scientist, 7 August 21 Edition.

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Old 6th Aug 2021, 11:12
  #16877 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
While traveling today doing a 700 mile trip by carI was held captive to National Public Radio (NPR) all day and listened to that source of news and discussion about Covid in the USA....and the several NPR Expert contributors mirrored many of my observations about the problems that have been self inflicted by the Federal Government and Local Governments....delays in the bureaucrats in incorporating new information and data, the lack of a Full Approval of the Vaccines (something they say. may happen Today (Friday), the effect that approval will have on Government and Private Enterprise mandatory measures that are seeing much resistance currently, the effect of Constitutional Law re those Mandates, the powers of the President re Executive Orders, and many other topics. Much of the discussion had to do with Moderna's report that they might have to produce a Booster come the Fall as there are signs the effectiveness seems to be decreasing after five to six months. Some of what they had to say was exactly as in some of the CDC information I have linked in earlier posts which should come as no surprise as even by your standards the US CDC must qualify as a legitimate source.
This is just a word salad, and I don't think NPR held you captive. You could have just turned your radio off or listened to something else. I also suggest toning down a little bit with the random capitalization of words. It makes you look like a kook.

Last edited by Hokulea; 6th Aug 2021 at 11:24.
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 11:29
  #16878 (permalink)  
 
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CDC information does really put it into perspective as well, 8,9 million vaccinations for kids 12 to 17 years old, just 397 cases of myocarditis, none of them fatal. After all, myocarditis is actually treatable and there can be monitoring for it. And as pointed out above, it is much more common if they do get Covid instead.

In the end everyone will get a certain amount of immunity, the only choice is if it is via vaccination or catching Covid-19 the "natural" way.
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 11:30
  #16879 (permalink)  
 
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The following is offered without comment ... any such would be superfluous ...
- from the Beeb's newspage
The president of the UK's upcoming climate change conference is under fire for reportedly travelling to more than 30 countries in seven months.

The Daily Mail said seven of the places visited by Alok Sharma were also on the Covid red list - but he used an exemption available to ministers to not have to quarantine on his return.
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 11:35
  #16880 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
The following is offered without comment ... any such would be superfluous ...
- from the Beeb's newspage
The president of the UK's upcoming climate change conference is under fire for reportedly travelling to more than 30 countries in seven months.

The Daily Mail said seven of the places visited by Alok Sharma were also on the Covid red list - but he used an exemption available to ministers to not have to quarantine on his return.
Behaviour not dissimilar to Dr Liam Fox when he was trade minister, lots of overseas junkets with very little to show for them, all at the tax payers expense. Difference is that during his time gallivanting around the world at least the rest of us plebs weren't effective prohibited from doing so. Were it that Sharma's wife / partner went with him on any of those trips to "red" countries I'd be extremely miffed. Barnard Castle all over again; are any particularly good opticians in these "red list" countries?
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