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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 31st Jul 2021, 12:53
  #16761 (permalink)  
 
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The Head of the US CDC has done yet another flip flop after a gaff during a Television Interview on Covid and a Federal Mandate for vaccination.

Now she is saying there shall be no Federal Government Mandate for vaccination but that non-federal government agencies and the private sector will be leading that effort.

One of the problems encountered in the United States re Covid is so. much conflicting information or rapidly changing "policy statements" that contradict other comments.

Even the Mainstream media is seeing the problem and is beginning to report on it.
Prior to the Friday data release, the CDC’s communications on mask guidance also drew criticism from CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner, The New York Times, former Food and Drug Administration (FDA) commissioner Scott Gottlieb and journalist Glenn Greenwald.

"I think the guidance is right, but I think their messaging is awful," Reiner had said during an appearance on CNN.

The New York Times had referred to the CDC’s messaging as "confusing," and written that the agency had "both a polarization problem and a communication problem."

"You know there's a problem," Greenwald said, when "authority-revering CNN is starting to notice and say that the CDC's manic shifts in guidance don't seem to make sense."

Hokulea....In order for you to be able to insult me first requires that I have some respect for anything you have to say. Thus, your last post was just a waste of effort.


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Old 31st Jul 2021, 13:23
  #16762 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Hokulea....In order for you to be able to insult me first requires that I have some respect for anything you have to say. Thus, your last post was just a waste of effort.
So I take it you aren't going to show me where my thinking is questionable or just wrong as you claimed, right? Vaccinations aren't the answer and shutting down the US border between Mexico and the US will somehow stop a worldwide pandemic? I'm also very pleased that I haven't insulted you, rather, I pointed out a somewhat illogical position you've put yourself in.
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 21:48
  #16763 (permalink)  
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And so the pandemic ends and the annual epidemics begin - but not to the extent that precautions above those for flu are required.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...arn-scientists


UK can expect thousands of Covid deaths every year, warn scientists

Britain faces the prospect of thousands of annual Covid deaths for years to come, scientists have warned.

They say waves of cases are likely to sweep the country every winter as Covid-19 joins other seasonal viruses, including influenza, in taking its toll of elderly and infirm people. Every year, as cold weather forces people indoors, virus transmission will increase, case numbers will rise, and some of these will result in deaths.

The warning comes as Covid case numbers look likely to stabilise through the summer, but with researchers saying incidence could rise again in autumn as vaccination rates falter and schools return. This could lead to a fourth wave this winter – one that could become an annual occurrence for years to come.

We are going to see problems with Covid for a long time,” said Prof Adam Finn of Bristol University. “The virus has shown itself to be genetically more nimble than we expected, though not as much as the influenza virus. So I would envisage Covid being a continuing problem for some time, with annual death tolls reaching thousands and possibly tens of thousands.”

This view was backed by Prof James Naismith, director of the Rosalind Franklin Institute in Oxford. “We won’t see Covid-19 spread like wildfire again. There will be enough herd immunity in the population to ensure it will never kick off like that again.

“But everything will not be hunky dory. We will have waves of illness similar to flu, I think. And they will kill. The issue is: how many? That is difficult to assess but if you look at current Covid deaths, these are occurring at about 100 a day.

“So a wave that kills a few thousand seems a reasonable measure of what you might expect in a future winter wave. And then, you might get a bad wave one year and have the tens of thousands of deaths.”….

Most of those who will die will probably be the old and the seriously ill – the same set of people who have succumbed every winter to influenza and other respiratory diseases. It remains to be seen if Covid-19 will increase average fatality numbers or merely act as a new addition to the repertoire of illnesses that kill vulnerable people every year…..
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 22:20
  #16764 (permalink)  
 
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Well that’s a cheerful thought!
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 23:03
  #16765 (permalink)  
 
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The virus has shown itself to be genetically more nimble than we expected, though not as much as the influenza virus.
This view was backed by Prof James Naismith, director of the Rosalind Franklin Institute in Oxford. “We won’t see Covid-19 spread like wildfire again.
But everything will not be hunky dory. We will have waves of illness similar to flu, I think. And they will kill.
[QUOTE]Most of those who will die will probably be the old and the seriously ill – the same set of people who have succumbed every winter to influenza and other respiratory diseases. It remains to be seen if Covid-19 will increase average fatality numbers or merely act as a new addition to the repertoire of illnesses that kill vulnerable people every year…..[/QUOTE]


Gee....after a year and a half of Covid.....are we being told that Covid is just another flu like disease that does in the old and infirm?

Perhaps I am the Half Full Glass kind of guy instead of the Half Empty Glass crowd....but I see that as being relatively good news....were the naysayers that held the position of the quoted passages back in March or so all wrong or just being maligned by the Sky is falling crowd?

Certainly Covid and its derivative(s), bad as they are....are not as bad as some would have had us believe after all.

There are many ways to check out from this old World and now perhaps we can add yet another in the form of Covid and its follow-on whatever they might be called.

Yet we still live with the annual Flu seasons year after year.....along with other seasonal diseases....and chronic diseases like Malaria which still is a huge Killer of humanity after all the years it has been studied.







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Old 1st Aug 2021, 02:45
  #16766 (permalink)  
 
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That sounds like the counsel of despair.

The suggestion is that C-19 will be flu-lke in the sense of seasonal occurrence, not necessarily like flu in symptoms or lethality. Also it is as well as, not instead of. Fighting for every breath is not a way I would choose to “check out of this world”.

We do not live with flu or malaria out of choice, we have no option at present, though we are fighting hard and with some success. However, the fact remains, while respiratory diseases like flu and C-19 continue to circulate, they have the potential to mutate and do great harm.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 06:07
  #16767 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...dren-p3kwj2qrd

UK left on sidelines by jabs for children

Families in the UK are being left behind as other developed nations push ahead with vigorous child immunisation programmes.

America and many countries in Europe started vaccinating children from the age of 12 in June. They are increasingly saying that children must hold vaccine certificates to access cafés, restaurants and theatres.

For British children this is not an option because the vast majority are not allowed a jab until just before their 18th birthday. It means a gap is opening up that could disrupt the holidays of British families as travel restarts.

Malta insists anyone over the age of 12 who has not been fully vaccinated must quarantine for two weeks.

Italy from Friday will insist that everyone aged 12 and over has a green pass to visit swimming pools, museums and cinemas. The document will be required to eat inside a restaurant, but not outside.

France’s equivalent, the passe sanitaire, will be required for admission to restaurants — indoors and outside — art galleries, swimming pools and even campsites. The pass will be introduced on August 9 for adults and extended from September 30 to children aged 12 to 17.

Children are also affected by some of the schemes in 11 other European countries this summer.

In New York, Broadway theatres announced on Friday they will admit only audience members, including children down to the age of 12, who are wearing masks and have been double-vaccinated. Some New York venues, including the Metropolitan Opera and Carnegie Hall, will no longer allow children under 12 to attend performances because they have not been vaccinated.

The UK joint committee on vaccination and immunisation last month advised ministers that Covid jabs for healthy people should start no earlier than age 17 years and 9 months. Children with certain health conditions, or who live with immunocompromised relatives, can be vaccinated from the age of 12.

More than seven million children aged 12 to 17 in the US are now fully vaccinated and health authorities are considering extending eligibility down to the age of five.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 07:53
  #16768 (permalink)  
 
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“*France’s equivalent, the passe sanitaire, will be required for admission to restaurants — indoors and outside — art galleries, swimming pools and even campsites”

FWIW some campsites are already insisting on proof of vaccination or proof of a negative test result for all guests when they arrive.

In addition some of them, having coordinated with the local authorities, have testing on site and in a few areas mini vaccination centers have been set up on the bigger campsites with vaccinations available to anybody who is eligible (campsite workers and holidaymakers)

https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/sant...-xx-1626719474
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 08:33
  #16769 (permalink)  
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Much as the on-site vaccinations will help increase total numbers it won’t help protect either those receiving them or the other campers for the period of their holidays, the vaccine taking at least 14 days to build immunity in the recipient.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 08:42
  #16770 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Much as the on-site vaccinations will help increase total numbers it won’t help protect either those receiving them or the other campers for the period of their holidays, the vaccine taking at least 14 days to build immunity in the recipient.
Are our friends across the channel using a single jab system? Otherwise it takes 2 jabs. Which is achievable between le Grand Départ and La Rentrėe, Les Vacances are taken very seriously in France.
Each region has a prescribed time to go on holiday. There are 3 blocks from N to S and they set off at 2 week intervals for 3 weeks holiday. N goes first.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 08:47
  #16771 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
...
Gee....after a year and a half of Covid.....are we being told that Covid is just another flu like disease that does in the old and infirm?
...
You missed the for a highly vaccinated population bit.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 08:57
  #16772 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Much as the on-site vaccinations will help increase total numbers it won’t help protect either those receiving them or the other campers for the period of their holidays, the vaccine taking at least 14 days to build immunity in the recipient.
Maybe I explained it badly but you’ve missed the point of vaccinating on site - it’s not designed to confer immunity during the holiday.

There has been a drop off in the recently very good national vaccination rate as people prepared, went on their holidays, or basically couldn’t be ****** to get it done before the went on hols but thought they might get round to it in the autumn….

The aim of sticking a small temporary vaccination on a camp site, right under holidaymakers’ noses, is aimed at making it really really easy for those not previously inclined to start the process.

..and to answer Ninthace it’s generally two jabs if you’ve not previously has Covid… the aim of the (limited) campsite system is to get the reluctant people started and I think if you get a first jab on hols the medics also arrange the second RDV at a Centre local to the holidaymaker’s home.

It’s actually quite joined up and I’d assume the UK is doing similar at the likes of Butlins etc??
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 09:01
  #16773 (permalink)  
 
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What's the reasoning behind a QR-coded Covid passport being valid for only 30 days? I know it's automatically extended each time the holder logs on to the NHS website but I'm wondering why isn't it a one-off record.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 09:19
  #16774 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
It’s actually quite joined up and I’d assume the UK is doing similar at the likes of Butlins etc??
Only joined up in theory. I found that in France you can’t get anything done between mid June and the end of September. In mid June they are about to go on holiday so won’t start anything. In July and August, they are on holiday, and in September they are on strike to get the money to pay for the holiday No wonder getting vaccinated did not feature in their plans.

If only you could stop them from rioting, the best idea would have been to tell them they could not go on holiday unless they were vaccinated. That would get them close to 100% such is the sacred nature of July and August.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 09:30
  #16775 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
[QUOTE[b]]
Gee....after a year and a half of Covid.....are we being told that Covid is just another flu like disease that does in the old and infirm?

Perhaps I am the Half Full Glass kind of guy instead of the Half Empty Glass crowd....but I see that as being relatively good news....were the naysayers that held the position of the quoted passages back in March or so all wrong or just being maligned by the Sky is falling crowd?

Certainly Covid and its derivative(s), bad as they are....are not as bad as some would have had us believe after all
Maybe seeing the world divided into optimists and pessimists is part of the politicization of this disease.

Compare the number of annual influenza deaths (20 - 70k ish) with Covid-19 deaths (600,000k so far in a similar period) and the difference is clearly significant. No doubt that difference will largely disappear once a large proportion of people are vaccinated. But it is not a like-for-like comparison as most people are not vaccinated against common influenzas.

The measures taken have certainly meant that things are not likely to be as bad as respected epidemiologists predicted. But the predictions were based on non-vaccination populations that were not using disease control measures. Yep, it’s good news; but it wasn’t complacency that got us here.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 09:46
  #16776 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stevef View Post
What's the reasoning behind a QR-coded Covid passport being valid for only 30 days? I know it's automatically extended each time the holder logs on to the NHS website but I'm wondering why isn't it a one-off record.
It's reportedly an anti-fraud measure. Given that people have already been prosecuted for faking vaccination certificates, it seems a reasonable precaution.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 09:57
  #16777 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
Only joined up in theory. I found that in France you can’t get anything done between mid June and the end of September. In mid June they are about to go on holiday so won’t start anything. In July and August, they are on holiday, and in September they are on strike to get the money to pay for the holiday No wonder getting vaccinated did not feature in their plans.
Oh these days the Fisc and the like can certainly be joined and active in summer and FWIW I was talking to the local hospital last week and organized an appointment with one of the senior consultants there for later this month.

The summer hols are still a big thing in many industries (witness the standard bouchons on the various autoroutes yesterday) but I think the days when the whole country clocks off for two months have largely gone…we’ve certainly seen a big change in the almost couple of decades we’ve been here.

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Old 1st Aug 2021, 10:52
  #16778 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Oh these days the Fisc and the like can certainly be joined and active in summer and FWIW I was talking to the local hospital last week and organized an appointment with one of the senior consultants there for later this month.

The summer hols are still a big thing in many industries (witness the standard bouchons on the various autoroutes yesterday) but I think the days when the whole country clocks off for two months have largely gone…we’ve certainly seen a big change in the almost couple of decades we’ve been here.
Bet you still can't get a builder in July & August though.
Good to see bison futé is still going. The French have always thought it a good idea to stagger their departure and return, so long as it is the other guy that does it.
Tell me, is "faire le pont" still a thing?
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 11:03
  #16779 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ninthace View Post
Bet you still can't get a builder in July & August though.
Good to see bison futé is still going. The French have always thought it a good idea to stagger their departure and return, so long as it is the other guy that does it.
Tell me, is "faire le pont" still a thing?
Ah builders and associated trades… you’re right, you won’t..and yep, they’ll never get rid of faire le pont…..
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 11:15
  #16780 (permalink)  
 
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You will doubtless remember the days when all major supermarkets closed for lunch between 12 and at least 2? Last thread drift Q. When we lived there, there was no point in going to a small shop before Tuesday pm. To accommodate the 36hr week, they stayed shut on Mondays and opened late on Tuesdays to compensate for not being able to open late on Mondays, then almost immediately closed for lunch. Is that still true?
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