Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Coronavirus: The Thread

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 20th Jul 2021, 16:00
  #16501 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,124
Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
I have no wish to prove anything. Not happy with the way the public are being manipulated and our freedoms being torn away from us for not good reason. Yes, these things are being done by Govt Ministers.
Listen to Lord Sumption....
Not sure where you live. Wonder if you have even visited this part of the world. ?? The North of England has been my home for over 40 years.
No Whist or Tombola where I will be on Saturday night....!!
You could say I'm vaguely familiar with your part of the world....coming from Manchester !.

76 eh ?..the oldest swinger in town then !

Finally, just ignore the 128000+ reasons...your life will be so much simpler that way.
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 20th Jul 2021, 16:31
  #16502 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 352
Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
..........................
No Whist or Tombola where I will be on Saturday night....!!
The Wheel Tappers and Shunters must have really gone down the nick then! That and Bingo used to be the high spot of a Saturday night out. Plus a pint or two of Yates & Jackson
Ninthace is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2021, 16:42
  #16503 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolton ENGLAND
Age: 76
Posts: 963
Thank you for you witticisms....appreciated!!! """128000+ reasons """ ??? Yes, I do look for a simple life..!!
Planemike is online now  
Old 20th Jul 2021, 16:44
  #16504 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,159
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i...lion-dplkc5fpn

India’s Covid death toll may be more than 4 million

India’s death toll during the pandemic exceeded 4 million, ten times the official count, according to a new report.

The study, published by the Centre for Global Development and Harvard University, found that the pandemic could be the worst human tragedy in India’s modern history, with the true death toll “likely to be in the several millions, not hundreds of thousands”…..

The new report used three data sources to calculate India’s excess deaths — the gap between recorded and expected deaths — during the pandemic up to June 21.

Researchers extrapolated data from the civil registration system that records births and deaths across seven states, accounting for half of India’s population. This was combined with data from two nationwide antibody tests and set against global fatality rates in different age groups.

Finally, the study looked at a survey of consumers conducted across thousands of Indian households three times a year, which also records whether a family member has died in the past four months.


The researchers, who included Arvind Subramanian, India’s former chief economic adviser, cautioned that Covid-19 deaths in the seven states may not be the same across the whole of India, since healthcare standards vary significantly between states and between urban and rural areas. The study also conceded that not all excess deaths would have been caused by Covid-19.

However, the report concluded that “actual deaths during the Covid pandemic are likely to have been an order of magnitude greater than the official count”. A death toll of 4 million or higher represents “arguably India’s worst human tragedy since partition and independence [in 1947]” the study said.

While it was India’s catastrophic second wave that captured global attention this year, with pictures of mass funeral pyres, oxygen shortages at Delhi hospitals and bodies in the Ganges, the study found that the country’s first wave had been “more lethal than is popularly believed”.

“Because it was spread out in time and space, unlike the sudden and concentrated surge of the second wave, mortality in the first wave appeared moderate. But even the CRS [civil registration of deaths] data suggest that up to 2 million might have died in that period,” the report found.

“In fact, not grasping the scale of the tragedy in real time in the first wave may have bred the collective complacency that led to the horrors of the second wave.”…..

With India’s vaccination drive still struggling with supply shortages, the country is braced for a third wave of infections in the weeks ahead.
ORAC is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2021, 17:08
  #16505 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,124
Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
Thank you for you witticisms....appreciated!!! """128000+ reasons """ ??? Yes, I do look for a simple life..!!
Have you given yourself a lifetime achievement award in this respect ?

Presumably this figure doesn't register with you.
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 20th Jul 2021, 18:51
  #16506 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 352
Coronavirus doctor's diary: Unvaccinated patients with many regrets

Ninthace is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2021, 19:00
  #16507 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolton ENGLAND
Age: 76
Posts: 963
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Have you given yourself a lifetime achievement award in this respect ?

Presumably this figure doesn't register with you.
Ha Ha.....!!! I award myself a drink now and again.....!! Not a life time but it does repeat...!!
I think I may recognise the figure......used to frighten, mislead and cajole the population....
Ninthace....People have choice.... They can chose to exercise it. Choices can and often do have consequences..

Last edited by Planemike; 20th Jul 2021 at 19:11.
Planemike is online now  
Old 20th Jul 2021, 21:00
  #16508 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 61
Posts: 891
Planemike
If due to not having a vaccine shot, you end up being hospitalized, I trust that you will make the point to the person who's bed you are in, who maybe suffering from anything form Kidney stones to Cancer that it was your freedom of choice that meant you took up that bed space. That freedom of choice that meant they had an uncomfortable night, or indeed may depart the plant upon which we all live, but your freedom of choice is so important. If you feel that is acceptable then that explains a lot about you, and indeed the new "Ingurland" which is so abhorrent to many both on here, and in the wider world. Grow up, I am amazed you have reached 76 years of age with that attitude with many, or indeed any friends.

Kind regards
mr mc
Mr Mac is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2021, 21:19
  #16509 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,159
No drop in the availability of vaccines, no drop in the number if vaccinations sites or publicity, millions of 8-30 year olds still unvaccinated.

Number of first vaccinations today. - just over 36,000 as opposed to the record of over 850,000….
ORAC is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2021, 21:29
  #16510 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 352
Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
Ha Ha.....!!! I award myself a drink now and again.....!! Not a life time but it does repeat...!!
I think I may recognise the figure......used to frighten, mislead and cajole the population....
Ninthace....People have choice.... They can chose to exercise it. Choices can and often do have consequences..
"Choices can and often do have consequences" A trite phrase but follow it through to those consequences. The choices we make can have an impact not only on ourselves but also on others, both those near to us and on society in general. An informed choice knows of the consequences of an action and is prepared to accept them whereas an uninformed choice, made out of ignorance, arrogance or both, is made without real thought for the consequences. What you call bullying or propaganda I would characterise as part of an attempt by the authorities to make our choices more informed.

To some extent I can see a person may worry that a vaccine is unsafe but in this case there is overwhelming evidence that this is not so. These fears can be discussed and allayed. Needle phobia is understandable too. Others think they are in some way immune, which is arrant nonsense, and can be addressed by education. Then there are those that just refuse to be vaccinated, Amongst these, are those that are unaware of, or have not given thought to, the possible consequences and can probably be reached by reasoning. Finally, there are those that realise the possible consequences of refusal and seem not to care. This is a mindset I cannot grasp as it seems, on the face of it, to be utterly self centred.

By your comments, you seem to fall in this final group even though you did not have the courage to follow it through in your own case. Can I invite you to tell us why someone would refuse vaccination, given the possible impact of that decision has on them, their family, their employer and the health and welfare services? I know it is a person's right to refuse a vaccination but as I said, it is a point of view I just cannot understand. Why are the consequences of a person's death, a protracted hospital stay or extended debilitating illness are so unimportant that they should not takes steps to mitigate them if offered?
Ninthace is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2021, 04:53
  #16511 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,159
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...-out-of-steam-

Could the third wave be running out of steam?

Will we get to 100,000 new Covid infections a day, as Sajid Javid has suggested, or even to 200,000 a day as Professor Neil Ferguson has floated?

Until Saturday, new cases were galloping upwards at such a rate that such an outcome seemed assured. But in the last couple of days there has been a dramatic falling off in new cases: from 54,674 reported on Saturday, to 48,161 on Sunday and 39,950 on Monday. Those are for the UK – for England the corresponding figures are 50,955, 44,777 and 34,657.

Each of these figures were higher than the same day the week before. And of course, we also have to be wary of the weekend effect – although that tends to affect reported deaths more than infection numbers. But there was no drop-off in reported infections over the previous weekend nor for the three weekends prior to that – on the contrary, infections rose between Saturday and Monday on each occasion.

Could the third wave of infections be running out of steam? That is certainly the suggestion of the Covid Symptom Study conducted by King’s College London, in association with health app ‘Zoe’. Indeed, it suggests that the third wave may even have peaked a little while ago.

The data collected by the study suggests that the average number of daily symptomatic infections in the week to 10 July fell slightly from 33,118 – down from 33,723 the previous week.

What is especially interesting is the changing composition of new infections.

The average daily number of symptomatic cases among unvaccinated people was 17,581, down 22 per cent on the previous week. The number of cases among partly or fully vaccinated people, by contrast, rose by 40 per cent over the same period. This could suggest that the third wave is spreading upwards among age groups – the upper of which have higher levels of vaccination.

But it also suggests that the third wave is beginning to run out of unvaccinated people to infect. That is a promising sign as the vaccines have shown themselves to be extremely good at preventing serious cases of the disease. If cases among unvaccinated people really are falling sharply we can expect a rapid decline in hospitalisations in the coming days.

There is no sign in the government figures that this is happening yet, but then there is a lag in the figures for hospitalisations. The latest figure published for daily hospital admissions is for 13 July, when they hit a new high – for the third wave – of 742.


There are, as ever, caveats. The Covid Symptom Tracker doesn’t pick up every case – it is an estimate based on a sample of people who are using the Zoe app. Moreover, as its name suggests, it is only picking up symptomatic cases – it gives no clue as to the spread of asymptomatic cases, which have been so important in the spread of Covid.

Nevertheless, with the PHE figures also showing a sharp decline over the past three days, there may be reason to hope that the third wave is now peaking. Next week’s data should confirm this or show it to be wrong.
ORAC is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2021, 05:10
  #16512 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,159
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/g...ckle-qnzjk6rrt

GPs sending vaccine doses back as demand slows to a trickle

Unused vaccine doses are being sent back by GPs as demand for jabs slows to a fraction of recent levels.

Doses that are nearing their expiry date are being returned to NHS England in an effort to ensure they are used, as vaccine centres increasingly amass excess supplies. Recent days have seen some of the lowest numbers getting first jabs on record, with the daily average now lower than at any point since the start of the programme……

Scientific advisers believe the country is reaching the limits of demand and ministers are urging younger people to get jabbed. There are three million unvaccinated adults under 30 and officials believe many could be persuaded to come forward given that over 90 per cent have expressed a willingness to have jabs.

However, health chiefs are more pessimistic about millions of over-40s who have not been vaccinated after multiple attempts were made by GPs to contact them and persuade them to accept jabs.

NHS bosses are planning more campaigns to encourage younger people to come forward and will send more pop-up units to parks and shopping centres to make it easier to get jabs.

However, despite Boris Johnson saying vaccination will become compulsory for nightclubs, there are no plans to send vaccination teams to the dancefloor. Vaccine chiefs fear that giving jabs before people drink heavily and take drugs is unlikely to be a good idea…..

Professor Paul Hunter, of the University of East Anglia, said that Britain was “getting close” to the end of demand, but said he was “amazed we’ve got uptake as high as we have” — with 88 per cent of adults having had at least one dose of vaccine. This ranges from more than 95 per cent in the over-50s to 65 per cent in those aged 18 to 24.

Hunter said that there was “a whole raft of reasons” why young people were less enthusiastic. “Young men particularly have a ‘it’s not going to happen to me’ mentality. There is the real issue that in most people in that age group Covid isn’t going to be a big deal, although some will develop long Covid.

“Then of course they are more exposed to rubbish on the internet.”

He warned that as Covid was not going away “everyone on the planet who’s not had a vaccine will get Covid at some point. In the future most of those infections will be asymptomatic and the rest will be no more than the common cold.”

Hunter added: “We’ve still got to try to get people vaccinated in those age groups but it’s unrealistic to think we’ll get to [95 per cent]. When this started I would have been happy with 80 per cent one dose, so I’m amazed we’ve got it as high as we have.”

He argued that drying up of demand, combined with emerging evidence that the effectiveness of vaccines begins to wane over time, meant the government was right to open up now.

“If the rate of vaccinations falls off and if [effectiveness falls] we may be less protected than we are now in September.”…..
ORAC is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2021, 05:35
  #16513 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,159
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...oung-dmvp6g3f9

Spain fights two Covid variants amid rise of Beta cases in the young

Spain is battling a parallel rise of variants as the Beta strain cuts a swathe through young people who have not been vaccinated and threatens those who have already been jabbed.

The increase in cases of the Beta variant, which emerged in South Africa and is believed to be more resistant to vaccines than other variants, has raised fears that Spain may soon join France on the UK government’s “amber-plus” list for travellers.

This is still thought to be unlikely, however, as Grant Shapps, the transport secretary, is understood to have been angered at being bounced into adding France to the list. He won a commitment within government to ensure that there would be no further additions until August 2, the next review point of the traffic light travel system….

The rise of Beta, which accounts for almost one in five cases in some Spanish regions, has put other European nations on high alert. In Italy yesterday, where there have been no Beta cases in four weeks, experts said that its transmission appeared inevitable.

“Beta variant can cause serious infection in the vaccinated, so it will prevail over Delta, which has a higher transmission rate, when a community is vaccinated,” Andrea Crisanti, a microbiologist from Imperial College who is on secondment to the University of Padua in Italy, said……

Gisaid, a global research centre, found that 7 per cent of cases in Spain in the past month came from the Beta variant. That was twice the 3.5 per cent of total cases in France…

The surge has caused some regions of Spain to bring back restrictions, including curfews and limits on numbers in public and private gatherings. Verónica Casado , minister for health for the region of Castilla and Leon in central Spain, where the number of Beta variant infections has risen to 18.9 per cent of total cases, blamed the variant for the crisis….

South African research suggested that the AstraZeneca vaccine was less effective against the Beta variant. A study in the New England Journal of Medicine found that the AstraZeneca vaccine was 10 per cent effective against mild-to-moderate Beta infections.
ORAC is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2021, 06:26
  #16514 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,184
This is still thought to be unlikely, however, as Grant Shapps, the transport secretary, is understood to have been angered at being bounced into adding France to the list. He won a commitment….
Sounds like “Says Mr Shapps,..” who I gather is generally regarded as about as having been about useful as a chocolate fireguard when it comes to representing the interests of the industry.
wiggy is online now  
Old 21st Jul 2021, 06:42
  #16515 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 6,026
Originally Posted by stevef View Post
Excuse me for stating the obvious but the behaviour of young people in nightclubs is hardly comparable with the actions of people attending conventions, seminars and lectures.

Night clubs: poor ventilation, very close or intimate proximity with hundreds of other patrons on the dance floor, deep shoulder-to-shoulder queues at the bar, sweat-to-hard-surface contamination after touching facial areas, raised airborne transmission due to singing, shouting or speaking loudly over music levels and the catalyst of alcohol to remove safety inhibitions.

I'd have thought it unlikely that the same conditions and conduct would exist in an auditorium or assembly hall.
Weren't some of the earliest cases in Europe linked back to a conference in Munich (?)
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 21st Jul 2021, 07:54
  #16516 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,249
Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Weren't some of the earliest cases in Europe linked back to a conference in Munich (?)
If I recall correctly it was actually a corporate visit by Chinese agents / suppliers to a German automotive company (Webasto??) that brought the virus to Germany, or at least where the first cases were identified. Of course the real driver back in March 2020 was ski holidaymakers catching the virus in Italy and latterly Austria and driving it back over the border to Germany and beyond.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 21st Jul 2021, 08:16
  #16517 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolton ENGLAND
Age: 76
Posts: 963
Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
Planemike
If due to not having a vaccine shot, you end up being hospitalized, I trust that you will make the point to the person who's bed you are in, who maybe suffering from anything form Kidney stones to Cancer that it was your freedom of choice that meant you took up that bed space. That freedom of choice that meant they had an uncomfortable night, or indeed may depart the plant upon which we all live, but your freedom of choice is so important. If you feel that is acceptable then that explains a lot about you, and indeed the new "Ingurland" which is so abhorrent to many both on here, and in the wider world. Grow up, I am amazed you have reached 76 years of age with that attitude with many, or indeed any friends.

Kind regards
mr mc
Mr Mac.....Good morning,
Pleased to say I do have friends. I have succumbed to Govt propaganda and subjected myself to the AZ vaccine. Did I need it..??
I am honestly not sure. I do defend other people's right to choose not to be vaccinated....their life, their choice. How can MrMac or
Planemike know their reasons.... Grow up...??? 76...need I say more???
Planemike is online now  
Old 21st Jul 2021, 08:35
  #16518 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,124
Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
Mr Mac.....Good morning,
Pleased to say I do have friends. I have succumbed to Govt propaganda and subjected myself to the AZ vaccine. Did I need it..??
I am honestly not sure. I do defend other people's right to choose not to be vaccinated....their life, their choice. How can MrMac or
Planemike know their reasons.... Grow up...??? 76...need I say more???
Not really, You've already spoken with more than sufficient clarity.
Krystal n chips is online now  
Old 21st Jul 2021, 09:37
  #16519 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 352
Originally Posted by Planemike View Post
Mr Mac.....Good morning,
Pleased to say I do have friends. I have succumbed to Govt propaganda and subjected myself to the AZ vaccine. Did I need it..??
I am honestly not sure. I do defend other people's right to choose not to be vaccinated....their life, their choice. How can MrMac or
Planemike know their reasons.... Grow up...??? 76...need I say more???
No, your posts have demonstrated Green's Law perfectly. Not the fluid dynamics version however, more the the one contained within the subset of Murphy's Laws.
Ninthace is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2021, 10:33
  #16520 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 77
Posts: 398
Probably best not to encourage him.
Barksdale Boy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.