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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 17th May 2021, 10:35
  #15521 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 921
I personally know tens of people who have had Covid of which only a couple have died, but plenty with ongoing health problems. I know of many more who have been infected and died. The more infectious recent variants seem to infect entire families, so Slowjet I guess you might really not have met anyone. But it does sound strange, roughly where do you live? Then again people were not exactly incentivised to crow about it till now when at least here in Germany you can get some advantages if you have had it or been vaccinated.
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Old 17th May 2021, 13:02
  #15522 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 323
Some people are flying to Amber listed destinations. Why is this permitted?
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Old 17th May 2021, 13:09
  #15523 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
Some people are flying to Amber listed destinations. Why is this permitted?
The ban on foreign travel has ended, so there's nothing to stop them, other than the inconvenience of home-quarantining on their return, which of course they will all follow religiously!!
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Old 17th May 2021, 17:07
  #15524 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Budapest
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Originally Posted by MikeSnow View Post

Regarding the earlier discussions about vaccinations in Hungary, I've been following the progress of vaccinations in EU countries for some time, and what struck me as unusual is that Hungary was both in the top countries by vaccinations per capita (currently only behind Malta), and by number of daily deaths per capita (currenly only behind Croatia). Not sure what the exact reason might be. My guess would be that some of the vaccines used in Hungary are not very effective.
I think you may mean Czechia, rather than Croatia.

Moving on, with regards to vaccine efficacy, Serbia has used a similar mix of vaccines as Hungary (including the Russian & Chinese varieties) & yet has a much lower death rate than Hungary?
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Old 17th May 2021, 19:54
  #15525 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 20
No, I mean Croatia. They had the most deaths per capita in EU over the last 7 days at the time I made that post. Now they dropped down a bit, and they are in second position:

The death rates for the last 7 days in the EU:

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...ST~CYP~LUX~MLT

And the vaccination levels:

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...ST~CYP~LUX~MLT
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Old 17th May 2021, 20:25
  #15526 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bucharest
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Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Moving on, with regards to vaccine efficacy, Serbia has used a similar mix of vaccines as Hungary (including the Russian & Chinese varieties) & yet has a much lower death rate than Hungary?
Yeah, that's why I said I'm not sure. It might be a combination of factors. And regarding Serbia, they might be underreporting the number of COVID deaths by a large factor, like many other countries. For example, I know for sure Romania does. We had 51,000 excess deaths between April 1st 2020 and March 31st 2021. But officially there were only 24,000 COVID-19 deaths in the same interval, so less than half. The government recently discovered another 7,000 that were miscategorized, bringing the number to 31,000, but it's still not even close to that 51,000 excess. Taking those excess deaths, and assuming most of them were caused by COVID-19, Romania would have been the worst affected country in the World at that time.
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Old 18th May 2021, 07:23
  #15527 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Only occasionally above FL50
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Originally Posted by slowjet View Post
Don't : Some didn't leave, they were booted out. No site rules broken but one declared "Demented" for daring to look at and express non-preferred views.

Dannyboy39 : Your post 15493. Agreed. But in over a year, I didn't get the virus. If I did and was asymptomatic, I am horrified at the thought that I might have infected others more vulnerable. But, here's the ting : I know of no-one who got it, or passed it on, and if unknowingly passed it on, got to hear of it later. IT just leaves me wondering. Is that allowed ?
According to official statistics, there have been almost 4.5 million confirmed cases of Covid in the U.K. Thatís more than one case for every 15 in the population. It seems almost inconceivable that any of us canít know someone who has suffered from Covid. Iím sure most of us will know at least a few people who have died of it. There may be valid reasons for not getting vaccinated but claiming that you donít know anyone who has had it must be one of the very weakest excuses.
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Old 18th May 2021, 07:34
  #15528 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bedford, UK
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I think that owing to the distribution of infections that may not be quite as clear as the average implies. I don't know anyone who has had covid with symptoms; extended families or acquaintances.
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Old 18th May 2021, 09:32
  #15529 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
I think that owing to the distribution of infections that may not be quite as clear as the average implies. I don't know anyone who has had covid with symptoms; extended families or acquaintances.
Iím sure that is true. But amongst my acquaintances- predominantly white, middle class but spread all over England - I think I would be hard pressed to find anyone that didnít know someone that had had symptomatic Covid. And most will know personally of someone who has died with it, if not of it.
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Old 18th May 2021, 09:41
  #15530 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
I think that owing to the distribution of infections that may not be quite as clear as the average implies. I don't know anyone who has had covid with symptoms; extended families or acquaintances.
I think you may be right to some extent. Any viral infection spreads more quickly when people are living and working in close proximity, and so even though the general proportion of infections has been pretty uniform across the urban UK, within the council areas on which the case number statistics are based there are "better" and "worse" areas in terms of housing and affluence. The less well off areas tend to be much worse than the well healed ones. Taking the area that I live in as an example, the council ward in which we live, and council wards immediately surrounding us have always had fewer cases than those to the north, and close to the university. Overall the figures for the council area here have been higher than the national average, but many of the cases have been in small pockets.

I suppose it depends how wide your circle of friends and acquaintances spreads, both geographically and socially. It certainly isn't a reason for being a "covid denier".
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Old 18th May 2021, 10:03
  #15531 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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ATN

I enjoyed your ironic slip: 'well healed".
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Old 18th May 2021, 10:24
  #15532 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Andrew: I came back in here after easing out in June expressing disappointment at the "hamsterwheel" and mud-slinging. I remain very disappointed.I make no "excuse" for my desire to take a good, long, cool-headed look at what has been going on.

You say one in fifteen got it. To me, that means 14 didn't.

Stats manipulation has been very misleading and, again, I simply ask "why?". Looking at diagnosis of the disease throws up all the old questions again. And, of those who got it , not a lot of weight is given to the huge numbers who recovered..

In touch with an overseas resident, he told me that some months ago, his Ministry of Health stopped adding the term "had underlying health issues". Very few covid diagnosed cases were leading to death where the patient did not have underlying health issues.So, why stop telling us ?

Finally, the entire travel Industry, yesterday, told Hancock to stop scare mongering. MH tells lifts the travel ban but tells us not to go anywhere, in one breath.

I guess, the entire travel industry are both thick and stupid. So am I for just.......asking & looking.......







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Old 18th May 2021, 10:47
  #15533 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Slowjet

You're clearly correct in your statistical conclusion, and the way in which statistics have been used (or indeed abused) by the government and media has most certainly created a great deal of the fear that now exists in the population as regards loosening up of covid restrictions. However, it is apparent from the various studies that are ongoing across the UK, and doubtless in other nations too, that a great many, perhaps as many as 33% of all the people who become infected are asymptomatic, whilst apparently still able to pass the virus on to other, who may have a very bad symptomatic illness that could, and probably has in many instances killed people. So the true figure for people infected in the UK might be nearer 4 in 15 than 1 in 15 of the population. That is still a small number, 11 in 15 having succumbed to infection, either symptomatic or asymptomatic.

The elephant in the room is not the number of people who get infected, but the consequent numbers that wind up occupying hospital beds, wither on a general (covid) ward or in ITU and the resulting delays in people needing treatment for serious illnesses such as cancer and heart disease. The government is presently [email protected] itself over the potential for the "Indian variant" causing a new spike in hospitalisations, even though, despite all the surge testing that is going on across the UK, the daily new case rates continue to bump along at 2,000 or so, and as Hancock pointed out yesterday the people in hospital with Covid is Bolton are overwhelming those who were eligible for a vaccination but for whatever reason chose not to take it when it was offered. If the Indian variant is as potentially infectious as is being claimed, assuming testing resources haven't been diverted from other parts of the UK to facilitate localised surge testing, they may be fretting unnecessarily; that will become clear in a couple of weeks.

Personally I'm not inclined to fly at the moment. Not because I am worried about catching Covid-19, but simply because I'm not happy wearing a face covering for the 5-6 hours duration that will likely be required for a short haul flight. My choice. I feel that government was probably over cautious with its opening up of leisure travel. The Balearics have much lower rates than parts of the European mainland, in fact when last I saw a figure, about on a par with the UK and Portugal, and although I haven't seen figures, I would bet many of the Greek islands are in similarly good positions. However to suggest putting countries such as USA, Canada, France, Belgium, The Nertherlands or Germany on the green list is clearly, at this moment not really a goer. Look again in 2 weeks time and things could be very different. The numbers are going in the right direction is all those countries.
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Old 18th May 2021, 10:48
  #15534 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by Barksdale Boy View Post
ATN

I enjoyed your ironic slip: 'well healed".
You really wouldn't think I got an "O" level in English language would you?? (Back in the days when an "O" level was an achievement!!) I blame computers.
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Old 18th May 2021, 10:53
  #15535 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 969
I assume the UK Gov have been looking at what happened in India during their election and thinking of what could happen here if we all drop our guard come June, especially given this variant's reported transmissability and impact on younger people. Not unreasonable IMO.
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Old 18th May 2021, 11:05
  #15536 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
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Personally I'm not inclined to fly at the moment.
Aside from the faff and stress of having to get tested prior to and after travelling, there's all the attendant buggeration of having to wear a mask when travelling or inside venues, restaurants having limited capacity (or not, depending how seriously the restaurant owner and authorities are taking this) etc etc. I feel it won't be anything like a relaxing experience.
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Old 18th May 2021, 13:19
  #15537 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
I assume the UK Gov have been looking at what happened in India during their election and thinking of what could happen here if we all drop our guard come June, especially given this variant's reported transmissability and impact on younger people. Not unreasonable IMO.
Iím afraid Iíve spent the last 14 months saving others peopleís lives. Itís time I got my own life back.
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Old 18th May 2021, 15:04
  #15538 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Norfolk
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Passengers arriving at Heathrow from both red listed and other listed countries end up in the same immigration queue according to the Daily Wail.
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Old 18th May 2021, 15:15
  #15539 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
Passengers arriving at Heathrow from both red listed and other listed countries end up in the same immigration queue according to the Daily Wail.
Doh!

Nobody could have predicted this...said absolutely no-one.
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Old 18th May 2021, 15:25
  #15540 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
Passengers arriving at Heathrow from both red listed and other listed countries end up in the same immigration queue according to the Daily Wail.
That has been flagged up in various papers for months...

e.g. The Metro on 15th Feb

From today, anybody arriving in England from a Ďred listí country will be required to quarantine in a Government-approved hotel for a period of 10 days. But Heathrow Airport has said there are currently no protocols in place to segregate passengers amid long queues at Border Control
AFAIK there has never been any segregation at Heathrow, not last year when the travel corridors were up and running and not now when we've got the Red/Amber/Green list.

As to why, probably best ask the Home Office/Border though I suspect it's another one of those issues HMG don't want to get involved with and are quite happy for the airport management or even the airlines to take the blame.
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