wiggy

Drawing comparisons between Australia vs. UK is this regard is a bit like apples vs. oranges.

The reason is what ORAC and others said.... like it or not the UK is very adjacent to and connected logistically to mainland Europe - it's very little if anything to do with the average Brits wallet.

Large amounts goods (not just food, things like components for the manufacturing industry go to and fro across the channel, much of it carried on "trucks" that are driven on and then at the other side driven off the various channel ferries/the vehicle carrying carriages of the channel tunnel system...stop that traffic, or even just stop the drivers, and you've cut that supply line.

There are also a large number of people who by virtue of their work, perhaps in industries with offices across Europe, or who are in engineering type work such as customer support will travel into/out of the UK on almost a daily basis....( FWIW London- Paris is 350 km, by comparison what's Perth - Singapore? Perth -Sydney? about 4000 km?))....stop that travel instantly and whole industries will struggle overnight.

Sure, but the entire population of WA, is what, 2.8million?

Population of London is about 9 million, the UK 67 million'ish..apples and oranges etc.

VP959

Got a letter from the NHS yesterday, followed by a phone call from my GP this morning, to go in and have my first jab, so the system seems to be working well here for the over-65 age group. I get the first jab next Wednesday at a vaccination centre set up in a nearby hall, with an unusual appointment time of 09:18. I get the feeling they must be running the appointments to a pretty tight schedule, based on that timing.

I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the way the vaccination programme has been managed. Our GP has been posting regular (as in every two or three days) vaccination updates out to all patients since December. Heck of a difference to the way our previous GPs surgery used to operate.

wowzz

Mark Woolhouse, professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the University of Edinburgh, told the Science and Technology Committee: "Over the summer we were treated to all this on the television news and pictures of crowded beaches, and there was an outcry about this.

"There were no outbreaks linked to crowded beaches - there's never been a Covid-19 outbreak linked to a beach ever, anywhere in the world, to the best of my knowledge."

LowNSlow

The case fatality rate appears to be starting to become more consistent:

Greece - 3.6%
Italy - 3.4%
Belgium - 2.9%
UK - 2.9%
Germany - 2.8%
Poland - 2.6%
France - 2.3%
Spain - 2.1%
Slovenia - 2.1%
Portugal - 1.9%
Ireland - 1.9%
USA - 1.8%

LTNman

Not sure which vaccine was given but a friend who is a Covid nurse and was vaccinated around 7 or 8 weeks ago has now caught Covid and has passed it on to her husband. A reality check I suppose when people think a vaccination also protects others as it is less transmissible.

LowNSlow

LTNman; unfortunately vaccination reduces the risk of catching and transmitting a virus, it doesn't prevent it.

Uplinker

Has it though? I ask out of genuine curiosity, not for an argument.

Are all the ICU beds in the country occupied, and what about the extra emergency hospitals that have been provided? Mrs Uplinker received an appointment after just a few days and went to hospital for a medical check, (not Covid related). So the hospital there was accepting outpatients, and they were not maxed-out by any means.

If there was a major toxic gas leak, or a 911 sized atrocity, would the Government say "keep away from hospital, protect the NHS"?

About 1 in every 660 people have so far died - one presumes of Covid, though they actually say: "died within 28 days of a positive Covid test", which does not necessarily mean they died of Covid.

I would hope that the 100,000 poor souls who have died have been thoroughly investigated to find which type of people are vulnerable to Covid. Is it the old, the unfit, the unhealthy, those with poor nutrition, those with underlying medical issues? I hope all the victims' DNA has been taken and analysis is ongoing to find any patterns or similarities. Five people in my extended family have had Covid - two elderly, three young. All have survived, and none needed hospitalisation.

Peter H

I'll be interested in how your timing works out.

I allowed for public-transport glitches and turned up about 45min early. Checked with the carpark attendants, joined queue, and had my shot within 5-10min. One of the attendants was checking-in somebody who was an hour late. I strongly got the impression that they were "advertising" slot times to ensure an even rate of arrivals, but were actually maintaining a very short queue by having ample vaccinators on hand. Worked like a dream and social distancing effortlessly achieved.

annakm

Thats a very good point raised.

The western nations appear to have been particularly badly hit because of the high rates of obesity and diabetes.

There was an interesting interview on the BBC yesterday. The newsreader was discussing the case of Jo Whiley who as a fit 55 year old has been offered the vaccine ahead of her 53 year old sister with learning difficulties and whether that was morally right. She went on to quote the statistic that 6/10 fatalities from Covid have been disabled individuals. The expert interviewee pointed out that in this context, disability also covers heart disease, pulmonary issues, kidney failure etc etc - not just special educational needs. I thought that put quite a different slant on the whole picture as reporting seems to imply that SEN individuals as a group have been almost singled out and disregarded by the vaccine program.

longer ron

Hope it all goes ok for you VP
I got a phone call in the morning on Sat 6th of Feb inviting me to attend a newly opened mass vacc centre in a city 17 miles away (which we have studiously avoided for 12 months) but I said to the caller that because the weather forecast for the next week was atrocious that I would not be driving anywhere so she put me down as unable to travel LOL - anyway I put cheeky face on and said that because I live a 5 min walk from both of our town health centres - if there was ever any spare vaccs just to call me and I would be there within 10 mins.
I got the call on monday this week - the day before my OH's birthday - I had just started wrapping presents (last minute moi ?) and the phone rings - ''can you come down right now ?'' - that was 1515 and I was changed,walked down there - walked into surgery and the nurse was waiting - straight into her lair and I was home by 1545.
It was very quick as you surmise - some necessary and common sense questions - a wee sharp scratch/jab and it was all over.
I got the AZ vaccine,bit of a sore upper arm and mild 'manflu' symptoms yesterday,I was in bed by 2200 last night which is unheard of and could not manage more than one glass of vino - so you know it was proper manflu

PR0PWASH

Not what Im talking about, how about all the plane loads jetting here and there for a bit of sun all packed in metal tubes for hours ?(and dont forget you can get that in Tennereach right through autumn) and of course the Ski-crowd...mistakes were made for sure

occasional

You seem to have missed the more widely significant observation.
"There's been very, very little evidence that any transmission outdoors is happening in the UK."

It is seeming more and more likely that most of Europe has missed a trick when dealing with Covid.

ORAC

It’s not the skiing, it’s the Apres-Ski.

Its not the beach, it’s the crowded hotel buffets, the bars, the clubs and the discos - and of course the bedrooms.

There was more than enough evidence of British, German and other holiday makers bringing back various variants from Spain, Croatia and other summer resorts.

Douglas Bahada

We have abandoned decades of Western science by our and other governments in favour of a distinctly unscientific (in Western terms) response to the Covid pandemic. For all the the Government’s protestations about ‘following the science’, this is exactly what they have not been doing. This is the rational approach we should have taken rather than a Chinese Communist Party version of science adopted by the WHO in 2020 and then foisted on the Western world.

It’s the one Sweden essentially adopted and which, up until 2019, was the World Health Organisation’s recommendation.

This Western version would have acknowledged, like a 0.2 fatality rate over a longer period time and lower for under 70s, an acceptance that coronavirus was ‘within the envelope of severe flu’, and practical elements like promoting community immunity, protecting the susceptible but avoiding collateral damage. It would, have taken unintended consequences into account; on the basis of 40 years research on masks it would not have put in draconian polices that undermined liberty and individual autonomy.

Rapid antigen technology (not PCR tests) would take people out of the system who were infectious very fast. Building fever type, ICU hospital capacity and prioritising emergency ICU cross-training of medical staff as well introducing proven treatments and prioritising public health (Vit D etc) are identified as key aspects to this approach. Yet we saw little to none of this.

This ignored years of tried and tested Western science in favour of a Chinese Communist Party version of science that hinged on lockdown and which, inter alia, completely ignored the age differential of Covid’s impact. While its advocates ‘screeched’ against any comparisons with flu they failed to acknowledge the fact that covid simply was not significant risk to younger sections of the population

As the government and its advisors turned their backs on decades of cumulative knowledge, on possible treatments and tailored responses all sidelined in favour of one sledgehammer lockdown policy that removed our freedoms, exposed the vulnerable elderly was, as you will see, all on the basis of a single piece of data from China.


enjoy.

vlieger

There is so much wrong with the above post, where do you even start?

VP959

Massively understating the true CFR for starters? There's now a load of evidence, from multiple sources, showing that the CFR is between ~2% and ~3%, not 0.2%.

There are some people who would clearly rather believe false and misleading propaganda than demonstrable facts.

wowzz

And the "ski crowd" incident you refer to, has been totally debunked, and shown to be media hyperbole.

wowzz

If that was the case, why did CV19 cases not increase significantly in late August and early September ?

Douglas Bahada

Well I like to keep an open mind and consider another view point to the official narative. Lets face it SAGE have been accused of inflating their numbers and using selective graphs. Lets not get started on Professor Fergusons' modelling. I am afraid that some on this forum approach alternate views with a "stone him" type of religious fervour. I certainly want to get out more. You chaps can stay at home.

VP959

Way back in the summer I repeatedly suggested that Covid-19 might follow a similar pattern as other viral respiratory diseases, like influenza, that virtually disappear in summer, only to come back with a vengeance in the winter. I still strongly believe that there is an underlying seasonal effect, and that the big dip we saw here during the summer was as much to do with the warmer weather as it was to do with the earlier lockdown measures.

It's pretty hard to separate out cause and effect when dealing with something like this, where there are loads of factors impacting on disease prevalence at any one time.