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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 25th Jan 2021, 09:48
  #13401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
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Balance and fine overviews returning to this thread and cheers this ole hand.
Mikesnow; I think i got it (the point, not the virus) but are you saying that your numbers grossed up to 100%. Or, are you saying that they do not but the rest is a saline solution ? I did warn of my lowly status and struggled with hydraulics too but thanks for the effort. I remain worried about what else is in the vax and have heard some really scary stories worthy of my fave series of "Hammer House of Horrors" !
Charliegolf; Big larf & spilled me first cuppa. Quite right but I am scared & need a cuddle. Sleeve up, down, up..........dunno............... In the clinic, thinking about the first jab, I heard someone say " just a little prick coming" ! Sleeve back down & I ran for it.
Radgirl; Contact details for your fan club please.
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 09:56
  #13402 (permalink)  
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https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/exci...id-19-vaccine/

Excipients Information for AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccine


https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/exci...id-19-vaccine/

Excipients Information for Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 10:20
  #13403 (permalink)  
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https://order-order.com/2021/01/25/v...sunday-people/

JCVI Scientist on Single Dose Vaccination.

Professor Finn is the European Chair of the WHO.

https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-t...am-finn,-chair

Last edited by ORAC; 25th Jan 2021 at 10:49. Reason: Sp
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 10:29
  #13404 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
So I take it you didn't see the crowds of mainly young people queuing with absolutely zero social distancing in the entrance to places like Wagamamas to name but one? And the pictures of revellers out in the evenings, alcohol is one of Covid-19s best allies in spreading itself. You can sit there in total denial but with your eyes open, and an open mind it's blatantly obvious.

You what?, that's a complete twisting of the point in my post.
I'm not sure if it is a deliberate manipulation or just very poor reading comprehension on your part
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 10:30
  #13405 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Radgirl View Post
We do not know what facts the government has because they repeatedly invoke the Official Secrets Act....Until data is published I will continue to believe the one shot programme is unproven and scientifically unsound. You must come to your own conclusion.
The JCVI issued a special statement on this very issue. It took this layman about 1 minute to find via the government website.


https://app.box.com/s/iddfb4ppwkmtju...e/759357623956
A new variant of COVID-19 has been identified in the UK, which has been associated with an increase in COVID -19 cases. Given this, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) has considered options for increasing the short-term impact of the vaccination programme. When considering vaccination schedules JCVI often considers first principles, and regularly advises schedules which differ from the marketing authorisation.
.
....Using data for those cases observed between day 15 and 21, efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 was estimated at 89% (95% CI 52-97%), suggesting that short term protection from dose 1 is very high from day 14 after vaccination. Similar findings were seen with the Moderna mRNA vaccine out to 108 days after the first dose (see Annex A)....The level of protection gained from a single dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine was assessed in an exploratory analysis. Vaccine efficacy from 22 days post dose 1 was 73% (95% CI 48.79-85.76). High protection against hospitalisation was seen from 21 days after dose 1 until two weeks after the second dose, suggesting that a single dose of the AstraZeneca will provide high short-term protection against severe disease

....With most vaccines an extended interval between the prime and booster doses leads to a better immune response to the booster dose. There is evidence that a longer interval between the first and second doses promotes a stronger immune response with the AstraZeneca vaccine...

Conclusion Given the epidemiology of COVID-19 in the UK in late 2020 there is a need for rapid, high levels of vaccine uptake amongst vulnerable persons. The Committee supports a two-dose vaccine schedule for the Pfizer-BioNTech and AstraZeneca vaccines. Given the data available, and evidence from the use of many other vaccines, JCVI advises a maximum interval between the first and second doses of 12 weeks for both vaccines. It can be assumed that protection from the first dose will wane in the medium term, and the second dose will still be required to provide more durable protection. The Committee advises initially prioritising delivery of the first vaccine dose as this is highly likely to have a greater public health impact in the short term and reduce the number of preventable deaths from COVID-19.


That is not government spin it is the JCVI consensus statement (including those co-opted from the devolved administrations). Nor is it secret. The JCVI are:

Members: Prof Wei Shen Lim (Chair); Prof Anthony Harnden; Professor Jeremy Brown; Prof Simon Kroll; Dr Rebecca Cordery; Prof Matt Keeling; Dr Fiona Van der Klis; Prof Adam Finn; Prof Anthony Scott; Prof Rob Read; Dr Maggie Wearmouth; Dr Kevin Brown; Prof Maarten Postma

Co-opted members: Dr Jillian Johnston (NI); Dr Lorna Willocks (Scotland); Mrs Anne McGowan (Wales); Dr Julie Yates (England)

Medical Advisor: Prof Jonathan Van Tam
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 10:39
  #13406 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PR0PWASH View Post
You what?, that's a complete twisting of the point in my post.
I'm not sure if it is a deliberate manipulation or just very poor reading comprehension on your part
Perhaps you'd like to expand on what you actually meant, because I still read it as saying that it is ridiculous to equate venues serving alcohol with less safe behaviour. If that's not what you meant, I apologise as I misunderstood.
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 11:03
  #13407 (permalink)  
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More than 30 new vaccination centres join biggest NHS jab drive

The 33 new sites opening from Monday (25 January) are:
.
  • Bath and West Showground, Somerset
  • Bath Racecourse
  • Salisbury City Hall
  • Home Park – Plymouth Argyle FC
  • Stithians Showground, Truro, Cornwall
  • Westpoint Centre ltd, Devon
  • Peterborough City Care Centre
  • Harlow Leisurezone, Essex
  • Redgrave Children’s Centre, Luton
  • Gainsborough Sports Centre, Ipswich
  • Hornsey Central Neighbourhood Health Centre, Crouch End
  • Westfield Stratford City- old Ikea and Dwell retail unit
  • The Francis Crick Institute
  • Hawks Road Health Clinic, Kingston, London
  • Black Country Living Museum, Dudley
  • Peepul Centre, Leicester
  • Hall 1, Stoneleigh Park Agricultural Centre, Warwickshire
  • Derby Arena
  • Artix Centre, Bromsgrove
  • Royal Pavilion, Moulton Park, Nortants
  • Former Wickes Store, Mansfield
  • Telford International Centre
  • Daniel Platt Centre, Tunstall, Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire
  • FlyDSA Arena, Sheffield
  • Spectrum Community Health CIC, Wakefield
  • Sunderland Nightingale
  • Brighton Centre
  • Debenhams, Folkestone
  • Oxford Kassam Stadium
  • Southampton CCG Offices
  • Blackpool Winter Gardens
  • Lancaster Town Hall
  • Grafton Centre, Cambridge

The latest openings mean that vaccinations are now available from more than 1,300 NHS sites as part of the biggest immunisation drive in NHS history.
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 12:02
  #13408 (permalink)  
 
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It didn't take a whole article on the BBC News website to answer this:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-55668923

The answer is "Because I'm a self important, entitled, selfish young pr@t"
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 12:23
  #13409 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
No doubt you enjoyed a Scotch egg ( you may recall a certain Minister suggesting this was a "substantial meal " ) avec frites, tossed salad and Chateau de whatever name a marketing dept has dreamed up......strangely, we declined to participate possibly because, and this isn't from the Guardian you may be appalled to learn, the potential for spreading Covid was only too obvious.....

‘Eat Out to Help Out’ scheme drove new COVID-19 infections up by between 8 and 17%, new research finds. (warwick.ac.uk)
Thanks for the link. As far as I am concerned, this proves beyond all reasonable doubt (based on experience in the restaurants I visited - not a scotch egg to be seen) that social distancing, sanitising and masks do not work. As all locations I went to adhered to those principles in full. I guess I can ignore these measures from now on as, based on the information you have provided, they don't work.
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 12:39
  #13410 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by eal401 View Post
Thanks for the link. As far as I am concerned, this proves beyond all reasonable doubt (based on experience in the restaurants I visited - not a scotch egg to be seen) that social distancing, sanitising and masks do not work. As all locations I went to adhered to those principles in full. I guess I can ignore these measures from now on as, based on the information you have provided, they don't work.
OK, so what, based on your self indulgent experience and analysis thereafter, does work.....and why ?

Just as an aside, how do you feel about the Apollo moon landings ?
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 14:42
  #13411 (permalink)  
 
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In a survey of Covid vs Occupation released today, ONS shows restaurant & catering staff had the highest death rate of all at 119 per 100,000. Something obviously didn't work for them!
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 15:21
  #13412 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
In a survey of Covid vs Occupation released today, ONS shows restaurant & catering staff had the highest death rate of all at 119 per 100,000. Something obviously didn't work for them!
What it also suggests is that the hospitality sector is a major vector for infections, and that the clamp down on that sector, or at least the pubs and bars within that sector it completely justified, since those people working in the sector who got infected are unlikely just to have infected each other, and most likely became infected from customers, who in turn, in all probability infected other customers. I imagine that this data may ensure that pubs, bars and restaurants may be closed down for a long time beyond Easter.

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Old 25th Jan 2021, 15:22
  #13413 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
In a survey of Covid vs Occupation released today, ONS shows restaurant & catering staff had the highest death rate of all at 119 per 100,000. Something obviously didn't work for them!
A large part of the problem seems to be the widespread view that wearing a mask protects the wearer. It provides very little protection to the wearer, especially if worn for long periods of time and frequently touched/adjusted. Masks mainly protect others from the wearer, by catching droplets that might otherwise escape into the air.

The most significant risk factor in any indoor environment, is the length of time someone is exposed to the risk of infection. Staff working in bars and restaurants, for hours on end, day after day, will have spent long periods of time working in the same space as customers who would not have been wearing masks, so the risk of them getting infected was bound to be fairly high.
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 15:23
  #13414 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
In a survey of Covid vs Occupation released today, ONS shows restaurant & catering staff had the highest death rate of all at 119 per 100,000. Something obviously didn't work for them!
As, clearly the experts believed you couldn’t get Covid sitting down in a restaurant, only walking around, perhaps the serving staff should have been instructed to move around their establishments on their knees? That way, they would have been on the same height level as the consuming customers who were considered at the safe ‘altitude’
It never made sense to me that masks were required to prevent exhalation/inhalation of fine droplets yet you could open your mouth in a public area and put food in that may well have been exposed to airborne particles.

Does anyone else get the feeling the rules are being made up as it goes along rather than based on scientific fact?



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Old 25th Jan 2021, 15:27
  #13415 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed. It's all about aerosols. If your mask is trapping your exhalations it is reducing the risk to others. By the same score its absorbing moisture from your surroundings so if you are in a bar for any length of time the mask has sponged up the atmosphere and you'll take the damp rag home with you.
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 15:27
  #13416 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The most significant risk factor in any indoor environment, is the length of time someone is exposed to the risk of infection. Staff working in bars and restaurants, for hours on end, day after day, will have spent long periods of time working in the same space as customers who would not have been wearing masks, so the risk of them getting infected was bound to be fairly high.
But do you know what, if the government had made it clear right from the start of reopening pubs and bars that there was to be absolutely no bar service and that all customers must wear face covering at all times when moving around the premises then some of the carnage suffered by staff may well have been avoided. These processes were standard practice when I was in Germany last summer, and again in the autumn and on both trips they were enforced by the staff in all establishments that I visited; and there were more than a few.
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 16:01
  #13417 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
OK, so what, based on your self indulgent experience and analysis thereafter, does work.....and why ?

Just as an aside, how do you feel about the Apollo moon landings ?
All the locations I visited all had tables spaced out, all told you to sanitise hands on entry, all had single use or digital menus, all had staff wearing masks, in all the customer had to wear a mask when moving around.

As these are all the measures recommended by scientists - I merely suggested your argument actually undermines it all.

Self-indulgent? Supporting local businesses? OK...
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 16:24
  #13418 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by eal401 View Post
All the locations I visited all had tables spaced out, all told you to sanitise hands on entry, all had single use or digital menus, all had staff wearing masks, in all the customer had to wear a mask when moving around.
That's encouraging, but I guess it depends upon what kinds of establishment you frequent. City centre bars may well be rather less well managed than the obviously well run places you experienced. I know for a fact that even at a rural pub "regulars" were still be allowed to sit at the bar, and people were ordering from the bar, rather than having table service. Both are quite unacceptable since it increases the chances of infecting staff, forgetting for a moment customers.
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 16:45
  #13419 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Try opening the article in the Guardian. There, in the 2nd paragraph, you will find the "non-Guardian" link. And no, I am not going to do it for you!
@KelvinD... my bad, By "any link?", I meant any link between drunkenness and eating out in the post above and the survey reported in "The Guardian". I do take "The Guardian" seriously. In fact, it is the only newspaper (ok, with sister "The Observer" and "Liberation") I find "palatable"......
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Old 25th Jan 2021, 17:03
  #13420 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by eal401 View Post
All the locations I visited all had tables spaced out, all told you to sanitise hands on entry, all had single use or digital menus, all had staff wearing masks, in all the customer had to wear a mask when moving around.

As these are all the measures recommended by scientists - I merely suggested your argument actually undermines it all.

Self-indulgent? Supporting local businesses? OK...
Fair enough, we'll return to the moon landings later, but, in the interim, the contents of this link should keep you occupied ( feel free to support a local business by ordering a take-away )

After you've digested the contents of the link, feel free to explain why you feel you are correct and those quoted / referenced within are wrong....and what alternative course you feel would be better.....even Boris, grudgingly, as usual, almost admitted the scheme was flawed....

England Coronavirus Cases Rose in Eat Out to Help Out, New Study Says - Eater London
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