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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 13th Aug 2020, 20:08
  #9021 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Sparks will fly ...
oh please not! Not if we have a recurrence of the Beirut effect.
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 20:15
  #9022 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Looks like another sizeable workplace outbreak: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-53762233
The elephant in the room perhaps but any figures on the ethnic make up of the 299?
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 20:53
  #9023 (permalink)  
 
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“Just as the SEALs surmounted obstacles to bring Osama bin Laden to justice, so too would the Martin County School system find a way to provide parents with a meaningful choice of in-person instruction or continued distance learning.”
— Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 21:26
  #9024 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vat is Jetstream View Post
Well France and Holland are on the UK blacklist now. Just as KLC have started daily flights from AMS to our regional airports. Good old Grant strutting his sledgehammer. Yet we have a sandwich making facility for M&S still supplying when 10% of its staff have been positive to Covid. Keep Covid inhouse.
If that sledgehammer technique keeps Covid plagued Nations flights away why is that a bad thing?

Tip - dont buy M&S sandwiches. Simples.

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Old 13th Aug 2020, 22:04
  #9025 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vat is Jetstream View Post
Well France and Holland are on the UK blacklist now. Just as KLC have started daily flights from AMS to our regional airports. Good old Grant strutting his sledgehammer. Yet we have a sandwich making facility for M&S still supplying when 10% of its staff have been positive to Covid. Keep Covid inhouse.
Better late than never
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Old 13th Aug 2020, 23:22
  #9026 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
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I’m not sure whether this is more appropriate for the Darwin Thread but presumably these people feel their faith will protect them?

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...ornia-12046193
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 00:49
  #9027 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
Copied and pasted from The Spectator as itís behind a paywall, but certainly gives food for thought. Canít say I disagree with the sentiments:

Never has a virus been so oversold.Thereís nothing unprecedented about Covid-19 itself. The equally novel, equally infectious Asian flu of 1957 had commensurate fatalities in Britain: scaled up for todayís population, the equivalent of 42,000, while the UKís (statistically flawed) Covid death total now stands at 46,000. Globally, the Asian flu was vastly more lethal, causing between two and four million deaths. The Hong Kong flu of 1968-69 also slew up to four million people worldwide, including 80,000 Britons. Yet in both instances, life went on..
It is very much in the government's interests to exaggerate the incidences and affects of the virus because the greater these can be shown to be, the more their draconian responses will be recognised as appropriate (or so they might imagine) by a populace cowed into submission by the constant bombardment of a propaganda promoting a largely untried and in some respects patently incorrect science. Sorry, that's a long sentence. By this means they will hope to mitigate the fury which will descend upon them when the full extent of their disgraceful mismanagement of the pandemic becomes clear. I suspect the unseemly brief consideration of the Dolan application for a judicial revue by the Court of Appeal is not unconnected with this.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 06:58
  #9028 (permalink)  
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https://www.politicshome.com/news/ar...-covid19-curbs

Boris Johnson to double fines for people who break face mask rules as he resumes easing of Covid-19 curbs

Boris Johnson has promised to double the maximum fines doled out to people who “repeatedly” flout rules on wearing face coverings as he confirmed the latest moves to ease some of England’s coronavirus restrictions.

Number 10 said fines for repeat offenders would double to a maximum of £3,200, while new penalties will be introduced for people hosting raves and other unlawful gatherings of more than 30 people

At the the same time, the Prime Minister is confirming that delayed moves to reopen bowling alleys, skating rinks casinos and soft play areas will now go ahead from this weekend.....

The move to press ahead with the reopening of culture, sport and leisure venues meanwhile comes after the Office for National Statistics said a rise in people testing positive for Covid-19 appeared to be “levelling off” when compared with the previous week’s figures.

The most recent ONS infection survey data - which will be updated at mid-day on Friday - show that there were around 0.68 new COVID-19 infections for every 10,000 people in England, equating to around 3,700 new cases per day. At the time the Prime Minister paused the Government's "roadmap" to lift lockdown measures, new infections stood at around 4,200 a day.

The new changes mean indoor theatres, music and performance venues will be allowed to reopen with socially distanced audiences; larger wedding receptions will be allowed if they involve a sit-down meal for up to 30 guests; and a “small number” of sporting events will be allowed to resume with spectators.

Ministers are also eyeing a wider return of sporting venues from October 1st.

Indoor play areas, bowling alleys, skating rinks and casinos will also be given the go-ahead to reopen from Saturday, while beauty salons, tattoo studios, spas and barbers will now be allowed to offer close contact services including facials and eyelash treatments.

But staff in close contact services — including hairdressers — will now be expected to wear a face mask of surgical quality as well as a clear visor covering their face to help protect themselves and customers from virus transmission.

The Government said it would keep the measures under review, with more detail on the fines “in the coming week”.......
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 07:03
  #9029 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Originally Posted by Vat is Jetstream View Post
This country is incapable of controlling Covid 19 internally. Do you work in the UK aviation industry? I do and like many others are facing end of careers. End of the day, a plant that has those number of cases should be shut down until clear. It hasn't been.
Apart from sandwich spread, factory breakouts in UK are probably local. Unfortunately passengers on inbound flights do not remain local to the point of arrival. There is some sort of logic in stopping flights. Where it will fail is people taking flights from adjacent 'free' countries. If a Frenchman said he was living and working in Brussels, can you disprove it?
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 07:22
  #9030 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53772459

Well would you believe it? More testing leads to finding more cases, but people just aren't being admitted to hospital, much less dying from it.

It's almost as if this whole situation has been blown out of all proportion (as suggested by Gipsy Queen above).

We're now at the stage where governments (not just the UK's) have gone so far down the hysterical overreaction path that rowing back and acknowledging that maybe it's just not that serious would represent a catastrophic loss of face. Therefore, they feel that they have no choice but to continue destroying economies and lives. NZ locking down Auckland for two weeks because of a handful of cases, the premier of NT in Australia suggesting that people from other states are unlikely to be allowed into his state without restrictions until 2022 at the earliest, the UK government placing wholly useless, reactionary and blanket quarantine restrictions on countries with the same or lower rates of infections as us.

Sweden seems to be somewhat unique thus far in having pointed out that the emperor hasn't been wearing any clothes since day one.

Last edited by guy_incognito; 14th Aug 2020 at 07:34.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 07:35
  #9031 (permalink)  
 
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Looking at the data, it seems increasingly likely that, as has been hinted at previously, people are significantly less likely to suffer serious illness if they get infected with this virus now, in the summer, than they were back in in the winter. There's no hard evidence to prove why this is; the virus doesn't seem to have significantly changed, so it has to be a fairly strong possibility that this behaves like influenza, and is far less virulent during the summer months.

If that's the case, then there may be an argument for allowing the disease to spread for the rest of the summer, but protecting all those who are more vulnerable. Protecting the vulnerable has to be the primary reason for adopting sensible infection control measures. The really big problem may come as winter approaches, when, if we still have a high incidence of the disease in the population, we might well see the incidence of serious illness and deaths increase significantly, as people who may have only had mild illness in summer contract very serious illness in winter, as happens with influenza. Controlling it at that point would be much the same as the problem we faced in March, and other countries, like Northern Italy, really struggled with, how can we stop our health care system from being overloaded?

If we knew for sure that those that have been infected have a degree of acquired immunity then that may help control a winter outbreak, but right now the degree of immunity an infected and recovered person has seems a bit uncertain.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 07:35
  #9032 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post

Boris Johnson to double fines for people who break face mask rules as he resumes easing of Covid-19 curbs

.......
When Laws are made that the police openly admit to not want or intend to enforce then they become little more than virtue signalling
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 07:39
  #9033 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by guy_incognito View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53772459

Well would you believe it? More testing leads to finding more cases, but people just aren't being admitted to hospital, much less dying from it.

It's almost as if this whole situation has been blown out of all proportion (as suggested by Gipsy Queen above).

We're now at the stage where governments (not just the UK's) have gone so far down the hysterical overreaction path that rowing back and acknowledging that maybe it's just not that serious would represent a catastrophic loss of face. Therefore, they feel that they have no choice but to continue destroying economies and lives. NZ locking down Auckland for two weeks because of a handful of cases, the premier of NT in Australia suggesting that people from other states are unlikely to be allowed into his state without restrictions until 2022 at the earliest, the UK government placing wholly useless, reactionary and blanket quarantine restrictions on countries with the same or lower rates of infections as us.

Sweden seems to be somewhat unique thus far in having pointed out that the emperor hasn't been wearing any clothes since day one.
If you knew anything about the profile of new cases across Europe you'd understand that they are very much focused on younger people, who when they contract the virus get only a mild dose, or may be asymptomatic. That would explain why fewer people are being admitted to hospitals and reflects that by and large older people are behaving sensibly, to protect themselves, and more so, to protect others, whilst younger people (the invincibles) are disregarding the risks to others on an "I'm alright Jack" basis - and from your previous postings I would suggest you could be pigeon holed in that (covidiot) group. Please accept my apologies if that is not the case.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 07:58
  #9034 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
If you knew anything about the profile of new cases across Europe you'd understand that they are very much focused on younger people, who when they contract the virus get only a mild dose, or may be asymptomatic. That would explain why fewer people are being admitted to hospitals and reflects that by and large older people are behaving sensibly, to protect themselves, and more so, to protect others, whilst younger people (the invincibles) are disregarding the risks to others on an "I'm alright Jack" basis - and from your previous postings I would suggest you could be pigeon holed in that (covidiot) group. Please accept my apologies if that is not the case.
correct. Here in germany the new 'outbreaks' are mostly either within the meat industry or the partying people coming from 'Malle' (Mallorca) or the likes. Other outbreaks are within groups of christian/muslim/anyotherreligiousgroup worshippers meeting and singing or huge wedding parties.

Nonetheless, people are getting less concerned in germany and are not following the guidelines as strictly anymore...
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 08:00
  #9035 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
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If you knew anything about the profile of new cases across Europe you'd understand that they are very much focused on younger people, who when they contract the virus get only a mild dose, or may be asymptomatic.
I'm not suggesting otherwise, and I've been absolutely consistent since the beginning of this fiasco that those who were in the most vulnerable/ at risk groups should take appropriate measures to minimise their exposure to COVID. The fact is that the young and healthy overwhelmingly are "alright Jack". The young and healthy also of course form the majority of the economically active in society.

If the risk of catching COVID is unacceptable to an individual, then they should take whatever measures they feel appropriate to mitigate that risk. If they are genuinely at risk of serious complications, then they should receive appropriate support to shield themselves (financial and practical) from the authorities. However, many people who are not in a vulnerable category and who almost certainly wouldn't suffer anything worse than mild illness were they to be exposed to COVID vastly overestimate the risk. They are still completely free to take whatever measures they wish to minimise their (perceived) risk, but they shouldn't expect any support (financial or otherwise) to do so, and they certainly shouldn't be allowed to infringe my freedom.

If the truly vulnerable are shielding, the rest of us can get on with our lives.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 08:15
  #9036 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by guy_incognito View Post
I'm not suggesting otherwise, and I've been absolutely consistent since the beginning of this fiasco that those who were in the most vulnerable/ at risk groups should take appropriate measures to minimise their exposure to COVID. The fact is that the young and healthy overwhelmingly are "alright Jack". The young and healthy also of course form the majority of the economically active in society.

If the risk of catching COVID is unacceptable to an individual, then they should take whatever measures they feel appropriate to mitigate that risk. If they are genuinely at risk of serious complications, then they should receive appropriate support to shield themselves (financial and practical) from the authorities. However, many people who are not in a vulnerable category and who almost certainly wouldn't suffer anything worse than mild illness were they to be exposed to COVID vastly overestimate the risk. They are still completely free to take whatever measures they wish to minimise their (perceived) risk, but they shouldn't expect any support (financial or otherwise) to do so, and they certainly shouldn't be allowed to infringe my freedom.

If the truly vulnerable are shielding, the rest of us can get on with our lives.
As mentioned a couple of times, there is no easy way of being able to conveniently partition off this virus, so it doesn't infect vulnerable people. There are so many ways that it can pass from asymptomatic infective people to them that even if people take the most extreme measures possible their risk of infection still increases as the level of infection in the general population rises.

We're a reasonable example of a couple of fit and healthy people, but who are in an age bracket that means that, if we get this disease, there's about a 10% to 15% chance it will kill us. We still have to get out of the house occasionally, to go to shops, the bank, get take ways, etc, and it would be nice to be able to think about taking a holiday. If this disease becomes widespread amongst younger people, due to a lack of concern as to the consequences of their actions, then that means that more people that we have to encounter, shop and bank staff, delivery workers, barbers, hairdressers, etc will be infected and so risk passing it to us. Obviously, if the incidence in the general population is kept low, then that risk drops significantly.

As mentioned before, the Preston slogan "Don't kill your granny!" is a pretty accurate one. Someone may take the view that they are young, fit and don't give a damn about getting this disease, but what that person cannot have any influence at all over is who gets the disease from them. They could pass it on to many others, and any of those could then pass it on to someone in a higher risk group, no matter how many precautions people in higher risk groups take themselves. A good example of how this disease gets passed on more easily when there are a lot of infective people about is the incidence of it amongst hospital staff. Despite them wearing extensive PPE, and being well-trained in infection control, far more hospital staff have contracted this disease, as a proportion of the general population.

The only effective way to limit the risk of this thing killing the more vulnerable is to keep the incidence of it in the general population as low as we practically can. Simple measures, like wearing masks and disinfecting hands and surfaces can make a very significant difference, and area really no hassle at all in the overall scheme of things.


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Old 14th Aug 2020, 09:56
  #9037 (permalink)  
 
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Based purely on your age that seems pessimistic. With no underlying health issues would reckon chance of death more like 2%. Factoring in significant sequelae, maybe 6% odds of a bad outcome?
So of 100 people like us 94 relish retelling the tale, the rest not so lucky. Odds of nearly 16:1. I'll take all reasonable measures but otherwise take my chances.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 10:26
  #9038 (permalink)  
 
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Guy, no need to go on you have made it clear that you are perfectly ok with your actions leading to a greater risk of death to others.
There really is no need to explain further

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Old 14th Aug 2020, 11:22
  #9039 (permalink)  
 
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If a Frenchman said he was living and working in Brussels, can you disprove it?
The onus should/would be on the Frenchman to prove what he claims to HM Customs.

Nice to see essential services like tattoo parlours, nail salons, hair dressers and the like are fast tracked for re-opening.
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Old 14th Aug 2020, 11:40
  #9040 (permalink)  
 
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The economy needs to reopen. They all pay taxes and employ people. `Essential` is a redundant consideration. It's not a gerontocracy (yet).
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