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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 19th Jul 2020, 12:49
  #8401 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
From a coronavirus perspective manipulation of the UK population has been pretty successful. A large section of it has been turned around from being confident about going to work, socialising, travelling and the like into a cowering population afraid to return to work, afraid to go shopping - almost afraid to move outside their own homes because the tenor of Government information machine is that the virus will kill them, and that message has been successfully carried through the broadcast media in particular, to a point where they are now scared rigid. The reality, which has been communicated, though not emphasised, is that for the overwhelming percentage of the population it will be very mild, or potentially a very nasty dose of the flu.

The problem for the government is how to reassure this group of people that by taking sensible precautions it's reasonably safe to return to something like normal, but it may be much more difficult to brainwash people in that direction than it was putting the willies up them. The sole reason for Johnson bigging up "normality by Christmas" is an economic expedient; if they don't get people out of their shells by November the high street will be just about decimated and for all our sakes (economically) it's essential they succeed.

More time and money spent on post-corona advertising (propaganda) ought to be a greater priority that post-Brexit propaganda.


My feelings exactly. The UK population seems to
gave fallen into two distinct camps - the fearful and anxious or the pragmatic letís get on with it.

If this was a true pandemic in the true sense of it, we would be seeing disproportionate deaths in younger people - weíre not and we never did - the vast majority are in the over 75s.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 13:24
  #8402 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post


My feelings exactly. The UK population seems to
gave fallen into two distinct camps - the fearful and anxious or the pragmatic letís get on with it.

If this was a true pandemic in the true sense of it, we would be seeing disproportionate deaths in younger people - weíre not and we never did - the vast majority are in the over 75s.
In truth there are probably three groups, the "hypochondriacs", the "invincibles" and probably the biggest group, the "pragmatists". The invincibles are the most dangerous, as they simply don't believe the illness exists, or it they do are convinced they won't fall victim, and are happy to potentially pass it on to all and sundry; the hypochondriacs will take a lot of convincing to get anywhere near back to normal as they have taken in the "you'll die if you get it" message. The pragmatists realise Covid-19 isn't going away and can understand risk management and use personal risk assessments and sound advice to try and get back to normal.

Some sense needs to be instilled in both extreme camps if the UK is going to recover without a 2nd wave taking hold and in educating both camps simultaneously there's a large risk of mixed messaging. Getting the message across isn't helped by the way in which PHE are allegedly reporting Covid deaths, which amplifies the downside on risk, whilst the new infection data goes largely unreported on the flagship TV news bulletins, and often needs searching for on the BBC news website. The German media, every morning, reports new cases numbers from RKI as the primary data, and deaths as secondary which gives people a better idea of where we are going forward, rather than in retrospect, which is what the death figures highlight.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 13:58
  #8403 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
In truth there are probably three groups, the "hypochondriacs", the "invincibles" and probably the biggest group, the "pragmatists". The invincibles are the most dangerous, as they simply don't believe the illness exists, or it they do are convinced they won't fall victim, and are happy to potentially pass it on to all and sundry; the hypochondriacs will take a lot of convincing to get anywhere near back to normal as they have taken in the "you'll die if you get it" message. The pragmatists realise Covid-19 isn't going away and can understand risk management and use personal risk assessments and sound advice to try and get back to normal.
Actually there's a subset of the invincibles - there's a tin foil hate brigade who are convinced they won't fall victim to the disease because either it doesn't exists or it's no worse than the common cold - the argument then goes the "sheeple" are simple being fed a line by the organisations such as the Gates foundation/big pharma/the Illuminati so as to keep them compliant for whatever the new world order has planned next.

They walk amongst us, even in quiet technical jobs, and they can be ******* for not respecting other peoples wishes for social distancing.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 15:44
  #8404 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
In truth there are probably three groups, the "hypochondriacs", the "invincibles" and probably the biggest group, the "pragmatists". The invincibles are the most dangerous, as they simply don't believe the illness exists, or it they do are convinced they won't fall victim, and are happy to potentially pass it on to all and sundry; the hypochondriacs will take a lot of convincing to get anywhere near back to normal as they have taken in the "you'll die if you get it" message. The pragmatists realise Covid-19 isn't going away and can understand risk management and use personal risk assessments and sound advice to try and get back to normal.

Some sense needs to be instilled in both extreme camps if the UK is going to recover without a 2nd wave taking hold and in educating both camps simultaneously there's a large risk of mixed messaging. Getting the message across isn't helped by the way in which PHE are allegedly reporting Covid deaths, which amplifies the downside on risk, whilst the new infection data goes largely unreported on the flagship TV news bulletins, and often needs searching for on the BBC news website. The German media, every morning, reports new cases numbers from RKI as the primary data, and deaths as secondary which gives people a better idea of where we are going forward, rather than in retrospect, which is what the death figures highlight.
Yes, thatís true - good point. The Invincibles - definitely.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 16:16
  #8405 (permalink)  
 
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Have I just read facemasks will not be compulsory for the gym. People working out at the gym will be exhaling droplets multiple more times than people casually walk around a supermarket no panting, puffing or sweating with facemasks on. A walk in the park is enough for me even there you have to try and avoid the joggers.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 16:38
  #8406 (permalink)  
 
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The evolution of reported deaths in the US, UK and the EU countries in the last two weeks:



https://ourworldindata.org/coronavir...pickerSort=asc
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 16:43
  #8407 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by N707ZS View Post
Have I just read facemasks will not be compulsory for the gym. People working out at the gym will be exhaling droplets multiple more times than people casually walk around a supermarket no panting, puffing or sweating with facemasks on. A walk in the park is enough for me even there you have to try and avoid the joggers.
On that basis they may as well open massage parlours (aka knocking shops) with no requirement for masks while they are at it!

Does the UK government have any consistency or common sense?
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 22:07
  #8408 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post

Does the UK government have any consistency or common sense?
I don’t think they do, as retail staff are exempt and not required to wear masks even though, presumably, they spend even the whole working day exposed to a much larger possible pool of infection with different shoppers whereas most of those shoppers are in and out less than 30 minutes.
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Old 19th Jul 2020, 22:44
  #8409 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
I donít think they do, as retail staff are exempt and not required to wear masks even though, presumably, they spend even the whole working day exposed to a much larger possible pool of infection with different shoppers whereas most of those shoppers are in and out less than 30 minutes.
Yes, but masks only stop the transmission of CV19. So, by wearing a mask, you are protecting others, not yourself. So, by wearing a mask you are protecting the store staff, who, in most cases, are behind plastic shields as an extra shield. I see no reason why shop workers should wear masks - the viral load that they would give out is minimal.
Indeed, the whole mask issue us a complete fiasco in Engiand. Go into Gregg's and buy a coffee and a sausage roll - no mask required. Go into W H Smith and buy a newspaper- wear a mask. Explain the logic in that!

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Old 19th Jul 2020, 23:06
  #8410 (permalink)  
 
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wowzz, I understand that the great majority of masks/face coverings available to public do not stop transmission of anything; include CV19 in that. Consider also the case of store staff who could be infected and shedding virus ( no symptoms)........shedding virus within store for an entire shift.....(?)
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 02:08
  #8411 (permalink)  
 
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Latest CDC death figures

There is a difference between death reported and death occurred.
Most deaths reported in the past week (i.e. the week between July 4 and July 11) were added to previous weeks back in April and May.


Blue = deaths by week occurred as of WE July 4
Red = deaths by week occurred as of WE July 11.

So CDC recored 6,698 additional deaths in that week. But only 5% (338) of these occurred in the last week.
Of course, next week more deaths will be added to the WE 7/11.
As of 7/4, there were 177 deaths recorded in that 7/4 week. As of 7/11, there are a total of 643 deaths in the WE 7/4 (a further 466)

This CDC data is based on death certificate data It is the most reliable data (although even that has problems - England particularly it seems). However it can take many weeks for cases to filter through the system and get recorded and then get added to the appropriate week.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm



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Old 20th Jul 2020, 06:36
  #8412 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...ield-d950sms0m

Police struggle to close down overnight rave on Bath airfield

Police were battling yesterday to close down an illegal rave attended by more than 3,000 people on a former RAF base, that started on Saturday.

Residents in the Bath area described being woken by “loud, thumping music around 5am” instead of church bells ringing across the Swainswick Valley after thousands of people flocked to the former RAF base Charmy Down in Somerset on Saturday night.

Avon and Somerset Police said that the force received the first report “of a potential unlicensed music event near Bath” at 11.21pm, but decided against intervening on public safety grounds because there were more than 3,000 people there and it was dark and wet. After taking a decision to contain rather than close the event, officers were still struggling to shut it down yesterday, with hundreds of people believed still to be there.

Near the rave in Somerset residents described roads including the A46 choked with cars, van and buses ferrying partygoers. An air ambulance attended the former RAF base at 10.15am yesterday, although the reasons for its attendance remain unclear. There were claims that the music could be heard as far away as Bristol......

The event was one of numerous gatherings, described by police as unlicensed music events that have sprung up across the country in recent weeks as people react to the continued closure of nightclubs and other venues under lockdown by setting up their own parties.

In London over the weekend, Scotland Yard issued nine section 35 dispersal orders – described by the force as an “unusually high number”. The powers, which give officers authorisation to disperse people from a particular area for 48 hours, were issued after parties were held across the capital with hundreds of people in attendance, including one in Hackney, east London, on Friday night in which two officers were injured.

Scotland Yard confirmed that in addition to a section 35 order being issued in Hackney, others were issued in response to parties in Borough Market, central London, Brixton, south London, Portobello Road, in west London, and on the South Kilburn Estate in northwest London......

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...ases-0867l2rh9

Germany

Thirty-nine people were arrested after police were attacked with “a hail of bottles” at an open-air party in central Frankfurt attended by thousands of youngsters, police in the German city said yesterday. Five officers were injured in the riot that began at about 3am when police intervened to stop a brawl involving about 30 people in Frankfurt’s historic Opera square.

The square has become a popular gathering place for what local media have dubbed “corona parties” as Germany’s bars and clubs remain closed to contain the spread of the virus. Some 3,000 mainly young people filled the square again one evening ago but only about 500 to 800 were still there when the unrest started, Gerhard Bereswill, the Frankfurt police chief, told a press conference.......
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 07:34
  #8413 (permalink)  
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https://www.politico.eu/article/gree...nomic-panacea/

Greece’s tourist reopening brings more infections but no economic panacea

ATHENS — Greece's gamble on opening up to tourists isn't paying off.

With tourism making up more than a fifth of the country's economic output and employing around a quarter of its workforce, the Greek government felt it had little choice but to take the calculated risk of opening up to visitors. But even the few foreign travelers who have begun to return have triggered new chains of coronavirus infections, while the economic benefits have so far been muted.

Greece has weathered the health crisis better than most, with just 194 deaths so far attributed to COVID-19. But an uptick in cases following the reopening of borders last month is an indication of how difficult it will be for countries across Europe to return to economic normality. The government last week tightened or imposed new restrictions amid warnings from epidemiologists about ripples of infection turning into a full-blown second wave.

In the first two weeks of July, around 530 new infections have been traced, with more than half coming from incoming visitors. That's higher than the total number of cases reported in June and almost double May's confirmed infections.

"We all knew, both we and our scientists and experts, that with the opening of our borders we would have a partial increase in cases," said Greek Health Minister Vassilis Kikilias last week. But he added, "the economy and tourism must survive."

The Greek government began opening up from June 15, something for which the tourism industry, terrified at the prospect of a tumbleweed summer, had pushed hard.

“Unfortunately we have to do it, because it looks like the danger from coronavirus will be smaller than the danger from its effects on the economy,” said Savvas Pagonakis, who owns a hotel on the island of Rhodes. “We will have to choose coronavirus or hunger.”......
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 08:41
  #8414 (permalink)  
 
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Black Sun

You will get no argument from me on that one.

The same appears to be true of our politicians and public servants.
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 08:41
  #8415 (permalink)  
 
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The immediate thought I had when reading the story about the Charmy Down rave, and the police deciding to take no action, was that it might have been worth sending a Chinook over there, flying directly overhead (at 500ft) for as long as it took. I'm pretty sure that this would disrupt things enough for the organisers to give up the unequal struggle and pack up, and it'd be less of a local noise nuisance than the rave itself, I suspect. Not cheap, but then I doubt that any measure to try and break up events like this is that cheap.
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 08:43
  #8416 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Black Sun View Post
After many years of travel for my work, most in what could loosely be termed the East, my return to living part time in the West has been a bit of a culture shock.
Youngsters in the West seem to have been in receipt of poor education and lack of direction, indeed younger parents themselves seem to be fairly unskilled and very ready to divorce themselves from responsibility which indicates a dysfunctional education system has been deployed for some considerable time.

Do UK parents no longer realise they are the ones to direct their children and not the other way around?, what I see around me indicates they don't.
A lot of it seems to be the desire these days to be your childrens friend and appear cool to your kids, whilst its a matter of degree I think we are seeing the results of 2 generations of western children brought up with few limits and an abundance of confidence that is unfortunately not backed by an abundance of either responsibility towards or respect for fellow human beings.

N.B. this is a generalisation of course and just my view
UK parents consider instructions to be option, and persist in asking their kids to do, or not do something rather than telling them. Deference has gone out of the window over the past few years, along with respect and replaced by a large dose of selfishness. We reap what we have sown.
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 08:44
  #8417 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The immediate thought I had when reading the story about the Charmy Down rave, and the police deciding to take no action, was that it might have been worth sending a Chinook over there, flying directly overhead (at 500ft) for as long as it took. I'm pretty sure that this would disrupt things enough for the organisers to give up the unequal struggle and pack up, and it'd be less of a local noise nuisance than the rave itself, I suspect. Not cheap, but then I doubt that any measure to try and break up events like this is that cheap.
That was exactly what I thought too, the equipment would have gone, and the people dispersed very effectively.
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 08:55
  #8418 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The immediate thought I had when reading the story about the Charmy Down rave, and the police deciding to take no action, was that it might have been worth sending a Chinook over there, flying directly overhead (at 500ft) for as long as it took. I'm pretty sure that this would disrupt things enough for the organisers to give up the unequal struggle and pack up, and it'd be less of a local noise nuisance than the rave itself, I suspect. Not cheap, but then I doubt that any measure to try and break up events like this is that cheap.
My first thought was gas.

Probably why I'm not in charge...
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 09:07
  #8419 (permalink)  
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The immediate thought I had when reading the story about the Charmy Down rave, and the police deciding to take no action, was that it might have been worth sending a Chinook over there, flying directly overhead (at 500ft) for as long as it took.
My immediate thought was several Chinooks equipped with bambi buckets to dampen the enthusiasm of the ravers... We could do with that locally. Would beat water cannon into a cocked hat.
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Old 20th Jul 2020, 09:46
  #8420 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The immediate thought I had when reading the story about the Charmy Down rave, and the police deciding to take no action, was that it might have been worth sending a Chinook over there, flying directly overhead (at 500ft) for as long as it took. I'm pretty sure that this would disrupt things enough for the organisers to give up the unequal struggle and pack up, and it'd be less of a local noise nuisance than the rave itself, I suspect. Not cheap, but then I doubt that any measure to try and break up events like this is that cheap.
My first thought was what a good idea. I then remembered about medium-power [email protected], and maybe its a route we don't want to go down.

It also reminded me of an idea I had back when some well-meaning people were close to suggesting compulsory internment camps for the vulnerable. What about going the other way: optional "summer camps" for low-risk groups. Obviously with some degree of testing/quarantine on exit.
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