Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Coronavirus: The Thread

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 29th May 2020, 18:16
  #7301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Sabotage Central Office
Posts: 0
Re: teenagers, In my town many 15-16-17 ish kids can be observed meeting groups of friends from other households (I doubt their are many familys with 5 or more kids of about the same age ) been like this for a good few weeks.
I'm certain the parents know this is happening and either don't care or don't have gumption to stand up to their own children, I suspect it's mostly the latter.
Slaine is offline  
Old 30th May 2020, 00:37
  #7302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 961
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I don't think your airline scenario answers SallyAnne's point, a point with which I agree. In an aircraft the cabin conditioning airflow will be well mapped and the air filtered continually. When smoking was permitted people nearby could smell the smoke.

At our post van a few weeks ago a woman was Vapping. Her vap stream was visible about 4-5 metres down wind. As well as dissipating it also appeared to descend. Had it been more windy the stream would have dissipated more quickly but spread further. Anyone the plume woukd have sensed it; in light wind the sensation would have been apparent for longer.
This may be of interest -

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...a6d_story.html
currawong is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 05:36
  #7303 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,581
A Night at the Opera

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1848...s-deal-youths/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...arks-597mf5t0d

Coronavirus: party-starved young flock to parks

Crates of beer, bucket hats and Bluetooth speakers are filling Britain’s green spaces as many young people declare that their lockdown is over.

Students say they have been starved of sex and parties for more than two months but that their social lives resumed this week. Restrictions have been eased but gatherings are still forbidden and police have stressed that they will continue to break up large groups in public places.

However, the sunshine is drawing out throngs of the nation’s youth who are flocking to parks to have picnics, play football and meet friends they haven’t seen for weeks.

Groups met in Hyde Park in London on Wednesday to enjoy “ice cream and beer on tap at the kiosks”, one walker said. “This is cheap bottles of wine and tinnies weather.”

A group of 100 teenagers gathered on Mothecombe beach, Plymouth, on Wednesday before police used a dispersal order to clear the area. A witness said they were “all drinking and having BBQs together — it was clearly a mass gathering that was prearranged.”

Yesterday in Bushy Park, near Hampton Court Palace in southwest London, a pile of beer cans was growing next to a dozen students sat on picnic blankets and listening to music.

Michael Lucas, 19, a commercial photography student, was among them. He said that coming home from university and being locked away had been boring. Clutching a can of lager, he told The Times: “It’s been ten weeks that we’ve been in lockdown. It was bound to happen soon.

“Being in quarantine is not good for my mental health because I can’t have sex. We haven’t been able to meet anyone. In lockdown we’ve been working on our flirting skills online because all we have time for is flirting.”........

Last edited by ORAC; 30th May 2020 at 06:19.
ORAC is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 06:45
  #7304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Japan
Posts: 736
Japan.
Every shop and restaurant that I have visited in the last week has roughly the same protocol in place. All staff wear face masks and gloves, and customers wear masks. All doors and windows are open. Physical spacing marks are indicated on the floor, there is a hand spray dispenser at the door, and the counter has a hanging plastic shield with a gap at hand level. The protocol is there as much to obey the spirit of government instructions, as to reassure the public in order to regain customer trust. This scenario seems to be quietly accepted by all.

UK
May I just say that I am disgusted over this sudden UK over-70s backtracking after all this time.

"Oh, we didn't mean that you should all stay at home. Did you really think that? Haha... It was only an advisory for those with underlying disease!"
jolihokistix is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 07:00
  #7305 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,581
Copperplate Your Knob and Save Lives

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/experts-call-for-copper-plated-doorknobs-to-prevent-spread-of-coronavirus-qp707bm2

D
oorknobs, handrails and shopping trolleys should be coated in copper to stop the spread of the coronavirus, scientists have said.

Researchers found that the virus survived on copper for four hours, because of the metal’s antibacterial properties. In contrast the virus was detected on steel and plastic after 72 hours, and on cardboard after 24 hours.

William Keevil, a senior microbiologist at the University of Southampton, said the UK had some “catching-up to do” when it came to using copper.

Polish buses had been fitted with copper “grab rails”, he said, while at airports in Chile and Brazil immigration kiosks were copper-plated and gyms in America had covered barbells and other equipment with the metal. “Door handles, push pipes on doors and stair rails in public buildings, as well as bus and train grab rails, should all have copper elements introduced in the UK,” he said.

Screens in fast-food restaurants and on cash machines could use “anti-microbial glass” to reduce infection risks further, Professor Keevil said. Anti-viral coatings could also be derived from copper.

Other viruses, such as those behind the Mers outbreak in 2012 and the swine flu pandemic in 2009, had been killed by copper within minutes, said Professor Keevil, who has been studying the antimicrobial effects of copper for more than two decades. “It just blew them apart,” he said. “When [a coronavirus] lands, copper ions attack the lipid membrane. They punch holes in it and the copper floods into the cell and destroys the nucleic acid.”

Some hospitals where copper alloys have been installed have had a 90 per cent reduction of surface bacteria.

Copper Clothing, a London retailer, sells copper-infused products — including pyjamas, underpants, socks, T-shirts and bed linen — which are said to be “completely natural, non-chemical, antimicrobial and long lasting”........
ORAC is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 07:43
  #7306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,852
What has gone wrong in UK?

Looking at the figures for new infections, and comparing two neighbouring countries, the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland, in the last few weeks the UK has been bumping along at + / - 2,000 per day, whereas the Irish Republic has been in the mid around the 50 mark.Comparing populations, the RoI is approx 5m, the UK 66m. So were the UK to have been as successful as the Irish Republic, then the UK's daily numbers would be ca. 12 time the Irish figure - so, around 600 per day; in fact it's around 3 time higher.

Some of that can be put down to population densities, some perhaps to mobility of the population, perhaps the Irish testing regime has been less adequate than the UK's. Perhaps the UK is seeking out people who are infected. I don't know, and I'm not that well versed in these matters, but it may well be that the UK didn't enforce laws on movement, the RoI has a 2km radius in which people could move around, the UK had a very arbitrary guideline of your local area.

Although I want to see the UK come out of this lockdown, I am thinking that probably the experts who believe the UK is moving too fast may have a point, and leaving further loosening until we're down below 1,000 daily infections might have been the wiser choice. Only time (and perhaps additional deaths) may tell.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 07:51
  #7307 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,581
Interesting opinion piece in The Times by Matthew Parris which, 8 think, accurately sums up where we are in the UK at the present.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/l...rong-038jm3vm9

Let’s all just hope the scientists were wrong

Don’t you just hate double standards? Truly has it been said that there’s one law for our political masters and another for the ordinary people. The ordinary people have taken a pick’n’mix attitude to lockdown restrictions, choosing for themselves how to interpret the advice. According to a survey headlined weeks ago in this paper “29% of Britons admit breaking lockdown — when they’re anonymous”. This relaxed approach is not available to our masters, however, and public and media rage will engulf any among the political elite who behave as ordinary voters do. Foolishly Dominic Cummings, Boris Johnson’s chief adviser, forgot. The court favourite makes a safe target for those too timid to attack a clueless king.

As for the king, I was struck yesterday by a sentence in Esther Webber’s Red Box report of his appearance at Thursday’s Downing Street press conference. “Johnson gaily handing out goodies,” she wrote, “while the scientists on either side of him tried to lob some words of caution into the mix.”

Their caution is understandable. There must be some bitten fingernails at Imperial College, on whose scientists and modellers the government claims to be relying. The idea is that they provide the theory and ministers the action. But they must know it’s impossible to reconcile their theory with any serious loosening of lockdown, whether rapid or gradual. What government is calling “the” science cannot support a return to normality before either we get to “herd immunity” or to a vaccine. We don’t have a vaccine, and we’re a million miles from herd immunity.

The threshold for herd immunity is about 60 per cent of us, or so says Imperial College. And not just Imperial. Let the University of Liverpool’s Professor Matthew Baylis at the Institute of Infection, Veterinary and Ecological Sciences, explain: “Estimates are that one person may infect as many as 2-3 others, on average, meaning herd immunity should kick in at 50-67 per cent of the population [being] immune … This is where the 60 per cent of the population statistic has come from … [T]aking the low fatality rate estimate of 1 per cent, even 50 per cent of the UK population infected by Covid-19 is an unthinkable level of mortality.” This reasoning shocked the government into the lockdown from which ministers now wish gradually to extricate us.

But why should we start coming out of lockdown now? Sometimes the simplest question provokes the hardest answer. Here is mine. We’re coming out of lockdown because — perhaps only subliminally — we don’t quite believe these scientists any more. We’re dipping our toes into the water of that disbelief.


Understand that when ministers say the R-number (a work of supposition) is now down “below 1”, this is based on life under lockdown. Lockdown, designed to stop people infecting others, should enormously suppress the R-number. If lockdown has been working then we must assume that infection rates would be much higher without it — unless or until herd immunity began to be approached. So are we approaching herd immunity?

Nowhere near — not if that threshold really is about 60 per cent. It’s thought that about a fifth of Londoners have had the infection and could be immune, and London’s way above the country as a whole, where the average is thought to be about 5 per cent. That would mean about 3.3 million people are “safe” from the virus, leaving some 63 million who are not. Imperial’s herd immunity would not be reached until some 35 million more of us have had the infection. We’d be waiting to get it — indeed, according to these scientists, we are waiting to get it: sitting ducks. If they’re right, what can possibly be the argument for beginning to end the lockdown now?

“Ah well,” say ministers, “it’s only baby steps. We’re inching our way out, ready to jump back if infection rates start to rise much.” Sounds reassuring but where’s the logic? If Imperial (and the World Health Organisation) are right, it makes no difference whether we inch or leap out of lockdown. Covid-19 will start moving in — fox in a henhouse — on the 35 million of us who are not immune, as soon as (and to the extent that) we start mingling normally with each other and travelling around again.

And we are, and have been for weeks now. The Daily Mail reports what sound like orgies of sex and drug-sharing on the beach beneath my London riverside flat. For months, crowds have been clapping the NHS, cheek-by-jowl. Supper parties have been going on for some time. Younger friends tell me their cohort is merrily using dating apps to meet up. A hospital consultant who will not wish to be named reports that sexually transmitted diseases are ticking up again: always a useful sign that humans are moving around. Human behaviour is not a tap to be opened and closed in a graduated way. You can scare people out of their wits, which is what the government has done, or announce “Panic Over – Back to Normality”, which is how people are reading the signs now: but the terrain between bomb-shelter and the all-clear will prove almost impossible to navigate.

So my guess is that as June approaches “the” science is holding its breath. From the coldly academic point of view, the science should be nervously hoping for a massive “second wave”. It’s what their modelling and clinical assumptions have predicted. Be under no illusion: university faculties, doctors, epidemiologists and modellers have a great deal of reputational capital riding on this. If lockdowns are lifted across the world and the sky does not fall in, they will quite simply have been proved wrong.

They will protest, of course, that all they did was report the results of their modelling, and it was for politicians to decide how to respond; but if you tell a prime minister that up to half a million people may die and that our health service will collapse unless he takes a sledgehammer to our economy, he will reach for the sledgehammer. He did.

They will protest that “herd immunity” is far more complex than reported, that localised outbreaks, hotspots, regional variations, differences between the infectiousness of “superspreaders” and others, and maybe even differences between the susceptibility of the uninfected all complicate the picture. Well, yes, no doubt. It would have been helpful to hear this at the beginning rather than the end.

Science is about prediction or it is nothing. I suspect “the” science got it wrong, and herd immunity never was 60 per cent. The science could, however, still be proved right. We shall know before long.



ORAC is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 08:05
  #7308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 67
ATNotts: Interesting points you make about GB/IRL comparisons. Some points to consider:
  1. Re testing regimes, not so sure it is easy to compare, especially when you consider the possible different time-paths in ramping up testing. I think that in April Ireland had more testing per capita
  2. The Irish numbers include care homes and the GB ones seem not to, so the gap might be larger than officially reported.
  3. Population density is a factor: Dublin is the only large metropolitan area and has (had!) a lot of air traffic so it has a high share of Covid cases.
  4. The GB lockdown was a little later in coming: even a few days delay might translate into significant differences in spread of the virus.
The only really reliable indicator will be excess deaths and I fear that the 3-month takeover of the relatively large Irish private hospital sector will eventually have devastating outcomes because of delayed cancer and cardiac treatment.
The word now is that the incidence seems to be very low in the general community, i.e. excluding care homes, hospital staff and meat processing plants.
Economics101 is offline  
Old 30th May 2020, 08:06
  #7309 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,701
ATNotts, I think the disparity lies in two of your points. In Ireland the bulk of their cases had around Dublin which agrees with your population density suggestion. The other is travel distances. Our towns are surrounded by dormitory villages so those that have needed to go in to town for shopping or work can then spread infection more. However I don't think that is a bad as population density in towns.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 30th May 2020, 08:11
  #7310 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 378
The major flaw in the above article from The Times is that it ignores much of the science, and chooses to cherry pick a single influencing factor, "herd immunity", without either understanding how that really works, why it's a potentially flawed concept for the first wave of a new infectious disease, or the fact that there are lots of other variables that impact the effective infectiousness of this disease, some of which we probably don't really know yet. Even the "herd immunity" idea is complex, as it's not an even effect, for obvious reasons.

The chances are that this virus is more effectively transmitted under certain environmental conditions than others, for example, plus we know that people tend to be more susceptible to some infectious diseases in winter than they are in summer. Whether this latter effect applies to this particular disease we don't yet know, but we do know that other respiratory system viral diseases, like influenza, tend to be seasonal, so there seems to be a fair chance that this one may behave similarly. For all we know, much of the gradual decrease in the number of new cases we're seeing could just be a seasonal effect, rather than the effect of lock down. If it is, then it may be that, like influenza, the infection rate of this disease may naturally tend to continue to fall to a low level through summer, reappearing in the autumn.

Last edited by VP959; 30th May 2020 at 08:24.
VP959 is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 08:24
  #7311 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 1,332
Copper Clothing
No thanks, not with my track record of being almost struck by lightning 3 times.

I have a similar story to tell like PN's CV case, but in my situation it was evidently not as contageous. I arrived back to Australia from Europe in early August 2019 on a Saturday evening and managed to get a good nights sleep to overcome any jetlag. On Sunday I got a load of washing done and was in good spirits. Monday back to work is always depressing as the beach life has been substituted for short winter days and the usual mundane things during that time of year. As the day progressed I started feeling a growing tiredness and decided to take Tuesday off to sort out some outstanding private affairs. Tuesday started off okay but the tiredness just kept getting worse, nothing that couldn't be handled though. Wednesday I went back to work with a cough developing that got heavier as the day progressed. My boss suggested I go home but I persisted to clock a full day. The night that followed was a hell I cannot remember ever experiencing. The coughing got very severe with a heavy fever developing - my head felt like it was going to explode and body aches were making it difficult to lay on any side for more than a few minutes. Dawn took forever to arrive. On Thursday I now had a severe chest infection with lungs filling up with phlem and fits of deep gurgling coughing. My head was still thumping and all I could do was try and ride it out by doing the usual things like drinking plenty of fluids and rest. On Friday I was still in bad shape and worried about needing a medical certificate for taking two days off in a row from work. Towards the afternoon I had the strength to walk to the nearest GP around the corner, but upon arrival reception told me I had to sign up into their books and pay a fee of $178 before the doctor would see me. I decided to take my chances and left. Saturday and Sunday were the usual episodes of coughing out huge chunks of phlem and the fever had mostly subsided. Monday my boss again suggested I go home but I persevered which went like this all week. That wretched deep cough and phlemy lungs continued for five weeks and sometime after the first week my lungs and diaphram would hurt when I coughed or walked down any flight of steps.

During this time nobody in my team came down with similar symptoms that I had experienced, but there was another person from another floor whom I had limited collaboration with who came down with exactly the same illness including the lingering pain in the lungs and diaphram. Nobody in my immediate or extended family caught it either.

The onset of this disease was extremely rapid and severe, and the fact that it took many weeks to get over it would probably be even more detrimental to the infirm. What was it? I have no idea as I haven't had a regular GP in over 25 years and so missed out on any professional diagnosis. It certainly wasn't CV as we know it as it evidently wasn't as contageous, perhaps it was just something else, and perhaps it could also be mistaken for CV by amatuers like myself when it wasn't. But it was really hell.

cattletruck is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 08:27
  #7312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 853
The Times article misses one crucial factor in all of this, namely the impact of the Cummings story. Johnson rushed all this out in an attempt to bury the story. He went much further and and faster than he would would have otherwise.
dead_pan is offline  
Old 30th May 2020, 08:59
  #7313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by pilotmike View Post
The compressor is still working pretty much as hard as with direct air. Any fractional difference to the typical load of around 2 kW which the aircon presents to the engine is hardly going to change anything. Turning the A/C off is the best way to make a small fuel saving.

Certainly, recirculation should remove most of the fresh incoming air, but not all; have you noticed how you can still clearly smell smoke when driving though it with recirculation set? I certainly have in every car I have tried to shut out smoke using recirculation. That means 'fresh' air is still getting in, albeit at a lower rate than on direct / fresh.
Doesn't the recirculate function HAVE to still include some outside air? Otherwise, what happens re the oxygen that you use up and the CO2 that you breathe out?
papabravowhiskey is offline  
Old 30th May 2020, 09:27
  #7314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 73
Posts: 797
On Thursday, we had Boris telling us what good things are going to happen re meeting others, how big a mob you can be part of etc etc. All well and good but, while he was speaking, it struck me that if all this mingling etc is going to be OK on Monday, why would it not be just as safe on Thursday, Friday or over the weekend? What is going to happen at 23:59 Sunday that will magically make things different? If it is safe now, then allow the change in restrictions now. If it is unsafe now, then tell the people that, as things stand today, things have not changed and therefore the restrictions will not change.
This cut over date is so specific that police forces are apparently warning that anyone not observing the June 1st cut over date for the new rules/regulations/guidelines. words of advice (pick your choose!), you will be prosecuted. So, if you choose to meet family etc in numbers larger than 1 on 31st June @ 23:00 you will be punished. Wait 11 minutes and you are in the clear.
Similarly, how did the government calculate that it will be OK for shops to open imminently yet hairdressers can only resume work on Jul 4th (how specific is that!). The "thinking" there seems to be "Having a haircut on July 3rd will be fraught with all manner of dangers but, as the date rolls over to July 4th, all those nasties will go away".
Finally, isn't Dido Harding doing a bang up job? She now reckons the Test/Trace thing she is being paid large lumps of wonga to run, will not be running until the end of June. Tomorrow's headline in the Scum "The girl done well!"?
KelvinD is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 09:32
  #7315 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 961
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Looking at the figures for new infections, and comparing two neighbouring countries, the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland, in the last few weeks the UK has been bumping along at + / - 2,000 per day, whereas the Irish Republic has been in the mid around the 50 mark.Comparing populations, the RoI is approx 5m, the UK 66m. So were the UK to have been as successful as the Irish Republic, then the UK's daily numbers would be ca. 12 time the Irish figure - so, around 600 per day; in fact it's around 3 time higher.

Some of that can be put down to population densities, some perhaps to mobility of the population, perhaps the Irish testing regime has been less adequate than the UK's. Perhaps the UK is seeking out people who are infected. I don't know, and I'm not that well versed in these matters, but it may well be that the UK didn't enforce laws on movement, the RoI has a 2km radius in which people could move around, the UK had a very arbitrary guideline of your local area.

Although I want to see the UK come out of this lockdown, I am thinking that probably the experts who believe the UK is moving too fast may have a point, and leaving further loosening until we're down below 1,000 daily infections might have been the wiser choice. Only time (and perhaps additional deaths) may tell.
I was thinking along similar lines (though not about the UK specifically) when comparing the likes of Spain and Portugal.

Some interesting comparisons to be made here on this map, just hover your mouse and the data jumps out.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/t...hs-per-million
currawong is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 09:40
  #7316 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,581
VP959,

The focus of Parris’ opinion piece wasn’t the science behind herd immunity rather the public perception of it and the gradually breakdown in the obedience to the lockdown rules - I.e. they obeyed because they were scared and now they aren’t scared any more. Which would seem to reflect the behavioural scientists fears.

Dead_pan.

Much as Cummings might make a useful scapegoat, as the article states, and as my own experience and other posters have Posted, the breakdown has been happening since long before the Cummings affair came to light.

The relaxations in the UK, France, USA and elsewhere are a reaction to what the politicians feel and hear is required both socially and economically.

I am reminded of the story of a French leader during the Revolution who, looking out a window during a meeting and seeing a mob charging down the street, grabbed his hat and left saying - “they are my people and I am their leader, so I must follow them”.
ORAC is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 10:01
  #7317 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,701
Cattletruck, the thing in common there was the lack of clear thought. There were two differences in my case. First, dry cough, no phlegm, and the two others with me both succumb in days. To quote my GP, at least we know it's not CV as you had it in December. Was it the flu variant that my Vacc hadn't covered?

The GP said that had it been the bad flu I would not have walking into the surgery, this was at my first visit in early January while CV was practically unheard of.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 30th May 2020, 10:10
  #7318 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,701
Originally Posted by papabravowhiskey View Post
Doesn't the recirculate function HAVE to still include some outside air? Otherwise, what happens re the oxygen that you use up and the CO2 that you breathe out?
As PilotMike said, there is still air entering the car but much less. Think back to car pre-Cortina where fresh air was from manually opened gills in either side of the front or of flaps under the windscreen. The Cortina had revolutionary ducted air vents with the SAAB adding a massive filter later on.

PM, when I said the advice regarding recirculation, I should have said battery power. The idea being keeping already cooled air recirculating used less battery power than cooling fresh hit air from outside.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 30th May 2020, 10:35
  #7319 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,924
Kelvin, is there no bottom to your outrage bucket? I suspect your last post would have read more or less the same had Boris tightened, loosened or left restrictions unchanged.

Professor Calum Semple of Sage tells us “essentially we’re lifting the lid on a boiling pan and it’s just going to bubble over...” With a pan about to boil over, lifting the lid normally prevents it doing so. Has Professor Semple never conducted this simple experiment?
ShotOne is online now  
Old 30th May 2020, 10:47
  #7320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,852
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
ATNotts, I think the disparity lies in two of your points. In Ireland the bulk of their cases had around Dublin which agrees with your population density suggestion. The other is travel distances. Our towns are surrounded by dormitory villages so those that have needed to go in to town for shopping or work can then spread infection more. However I don't think that is a bad as population density in towns.
Problem with the population density theory is that if you compare France and the UK, with not dissimilar populations, a disproportionately large capital, but still several larger cities outside of the metropolitan Paris area (Lille, Strasbourg, Lyon, Marseille, Nice, Bordeaux and many others) France got it's new infection rate down very sharply after an appalling start, and has been in the 100s for some time now. Again, I think the very firm, some would say draconian, approach to enforcing a proper lockdown that France adopted was more successful than the UK's half baked mixture of statute, advice and guidance - frankly I'm at a loss sometimes to be sure what is what. is it the law I can't have a barbecue in our back garden with 4 of my relatives, or guidance? Is it the law that I couldn't go for more than one one hour exercise period, or advice - and how big is our local area; if asked I'd have said about 5 miles radius, but I'm sure come people viewed it as the end of their street, and others 20 miles?
ATNotts is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.