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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 22nd May 2020, 23:32
  #7101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Angry

Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
You couldn’t make this up. It transpires Dominic Cummings, Government Chief Advisor, travelled to Durham from London, during lockdown, with symptoms, to visit his parents.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52779356
Obviously No Common Sense!


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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:10
  #7102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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This is the link to the Wuhan WURS vaccine article in the Lancet.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...208-3/fulltext
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Old 23rd May 2020, 02:22
  #7103 (permalink)  
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You can't say Wuhan you racist !
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Old 23rd May 2020, 03:00
  #7104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kpd View Post
the Lancet reports encouraging report for vaccine from ---Wuhan!!! Interesting.
Just replying to this post.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 07:42
  #7105 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting article about the complexity and challenges of contact tracing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52772436

Doesn't seem to be a minimum wage job, from that description, at all.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:05
  #7106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
Has anybody had a cold recently?
Yes - despite being reasonably isolated and wearing a mask but not gloves. And it was a very nasty cold.
I suspect it came from either the chemists or the supermarket.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:26
  #7107 (permalink)  
 
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Just got back from our local supermarket. The staff there are doing a grand job with great humour but it’s dawned on me the pointlessness of it all. We all stood in a snaking and equally spaced queue around the car park, looking like an Anthony Gormley set of statues. As, up and down the country, the system seems to be X number of trolleys are in circulation in order to limit the number of shoppers. The staff were diligently wiping down the handles with disinfectant wipes once each one was returned and then immediately issued to the next waiting shopper.

Standing in a queue for 15 minutes without much to do gave me the opportunity to watch human behaviour. I realised how many of us - myself included - actually manoeuvre shopping trolleys to get to something, or to return them, by grabbing the sides or the end, not the handle at all. To be honest, if we’re supposed to to be washing our hands thoroughly, particularly when we have been out of the house, these token cleansing efforts seem totally unnecessary and may even give another false sense of security.

Another point my daughter has also raised is about social distancing. If the WHO have stated that 1m apart is an acceptable safe measure, isn’t that the usually socially acceptable distance we all keep anyway? Apart from close family and, even with good friends, human beings have an invisible ‘social space’ that we like to keep. Obviously, for the foreseeable future, we will probably need to avoid crowds but on day to day interaction, it really shouldn’t be a problem and not need to be spelt out in capital letters.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:33
  #7108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Interesting article about the complexity and challenges of contact tracing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52772436

Doesn't seem to be a minimum wage job, from that description, at all.
I am surprised you didn't notice that Johns Hopkins university is in the US! Anyway, without having seen the prospectus, I wouldn't know if this related to a typical call centre operative or those of the clinician type skills.
Anyway, back to the UK; The pay being advertised is £9.42 per hour. Have a look at the recruiting web sites. There are reports elswhere that recruits are being offered £8.00 per hour.
And then there is the training. Various reports would put this in the shambolic category. ("How can I deal with someone who has been bereaved?" from a new recruit. "Look it up on Youtube" was the answer from the management!)
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:42
  #7109 (permalink)  
 
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FWIW, this virus persists for a longer time in dry and cool conditions, and breaks down more rapidly in warm and humid conditions. Not sure about cool and humid, but would guess that that's a worse condition for long persistence than dry and cool.
This might explain why Peru, Chile and Equador have been experiencing a surge in infections now, despite being amongst the first to apply lockdowns back in mid-March to stem the spread of infections.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:47
  #7110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack View Post
This might explain why Peru, Chile and Equador have been experiencing a surge in infections now, despite being amongst the first to apply lockdowns back in mid-March to stem the spread of infections.
There was an interesting correlation reported last night that the Asian countries that have the highest success in containing Covid previously had experience with the SARS outbreak so had plans already in place.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 10:01
  #7111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I am surprised you didn't notice that Johns Hopkins university is in the US! Anyway, without having seen the prospectus, I wouldn't know if this related to a typical call centre operative or those of the clinician type skills.
Anyway, back to the UK; The pay being advertised is £9.42 per hour. Have a look at the recruiting web sites. There are reports elswhere that recruits are being offered £8.00 per hour.
And then there is the training. Various reports would put this in the shambolic category. ("How can I deal with someone who has been bereaved?" from a new recruit. "Look it up on Youtube" was the answer from the management!)

Funny old thing, but I did . . .

The point I was making was the pretty bloody obvious one, that contact tracing is a bit above a minimum wage job. It matters not one jot which country we're referring to, as the fundamental process is the same everywhere, as everyone across the globe is dealing with the same fundamental issues.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 10:13
  #7112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
Just got back from our local supermarket. The staff there are doing a grand job with great humour but it’s dawned on me the pointlessness of it all. We all stood in a snaking and equally spaced queue around the car park, looking like an Anthony Gormley set of statues. As, up and down the country, the system seems to be X number of trolleys are in circulation in order to limit the number of shoppers. The staff were diligently wiping down the handles with disinfectant wipes once each one was returned and then immediately issued to the next waiting shopper.

Standing in a queue for 15 minutes without much to do gave me the opportunity to watch human behaviour. I realised how many of us - myself included - actually manoeuvre shopping trolleys to get to something, or to return them, by grabbing the sides or the end, not the handle at all. To be honest, if we’re supposed to to be washing our hands thoroughly, particularly when we have been out of the house, these token cleansing efforts seem totally unnecessary and may even give another false sense of security.

Another point my daughter has also raised is about social distancing. If the WHO have stated that 1m apart is an acceptable safe measure, isn’t that the usually socially acceptable distance we all keep anyway? Apart from close family and, even with good friends, human beings have an invisible ‘social space’ that we like to keep. Obviously, for the foreseeable future, we will probably need to avoid crowds but on day to day interaction, it really shouldn’t be a problem and not need to be spelt out in capital letters.
At least it’s an improvement from what I saw frequently in the early days where an operative was stationed inside the supermarket with cleaning spray in order to wipe down the handle of the trolley that you’d just pushed in from outside!
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Old 23rd May 2020, 10:45
  #7113 (permalink)  
 
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Out Of Trim's post #7101 seems to have garnered surprisingly few responses. One would have thought that, at the very least, the unsparing efforts of ORAC would have c&p'd such relevant news.
The discussions I have noted elsewhere generally point to the need for the 'puppet master' to move on to pastures new - previous, similar 'above-the-law' idiocies have so resulted. If, and it's a big 'if', the buffoon demonstrates just a modicum of control and Leadership, Cummings should be leaving No.10. Not just leaving, but, if there is any justice, escorted by a policeman and devoid of his constantly present shoulder bag. Unfortunately, I have little faith in either of the above possibilities.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:09
  #7114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Out Of Trim's post #7101 seems to have garnered surprisingly few responses. One would have thought that, at the very least, the unsparing efforts of ORAC would have c&p'd such relevant news.
The discussions I have noted elsewhere generally point to the need for the 'puppet master' to move on to pastures new - previous, similar 'above-the-law' idiocies have so resulted. If, and it's a big 'if', the buffoon demonstrates just a modicum of control and Leadership, Cummings should be leaving No.10. Not just leaving, but, if there is any justice, escorted by a policeman and devoid of his constantly present shoulder bag. Unfortunately, I have little faith in either of the above possibilities.
Apparently, Boris says Cumming’s trip was ‘essential’ but visiting my dying mother wasn’t essential enough, as I was - understandably - denied the right for obvious reasons. At least Cummings will have the opportunity to see his family members again. Unlike many of us mere mortals.

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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:13
  #7115 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps because of a so what factor? Earlier posts for example slipped in the phrase 'tory tool' which was unnecessary for the point trying to be made so this disclosed the writer has a political bias which makes any argument derogatory to the government from that source suspicious. You have lobbed in puppet master and idiocies, and you seem disappointed we haven't been properly swayed by your earlier posts or post 7101. I trust my response here may indicate one reason for this ie when the language deployed says more about the author than the point apparently trying to be made.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:34
  #7116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post

Another point my daughter has also raised is about social distancing. If the WHO have stated that 1m apart is an acceptable safe measure, isn’t that the usually socially acceptable distance we all keep anyway? Apart from close family and, even with good friends, human beings have an invisible ‘social space’ that we like to keep. Obviously, for the foreseeable future, we will probably need to avoid crowds but on day to day interaction, it really shouldn’t be a problem and not need to be spelt out in capital letters.
Unfortunately the 1m social space you describe is NOT the norm for everyone.In my place of employment there are numerous individuals who think they must stand shoulder to shoulder or face to face in order to have a conversation.It is most annoying and they often look offended when asked to keep their distance.

It'll be interesting to see how the second wave materialises in a few months time.......



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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:41
  #7117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
Perhaps because of a so what factor? Earlier posts for example slipped in the phrase 'tory tool' which was unnecessary for the point trying to be made so this disclosed the writer has a political bias which makes any argument derogatory to the government from that source suspicious. You have lobbed in puppet master and idiocies, and you seem disappointed we haven't been properly swayed by your earlier posts or post 7101. I trust my response here may indicate one reason for this ie when the language deployed says more about the author than the point apparently trying to be made.
OMG are you still banging on about that??!

PS Says the guy who made unfounded derogatory comments about the overpaid NHS managers literally a couple of days after this exchange, thereby revealing his political bias. You honestly could make it up.



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Old 23rd May 2020, 11:59
  #7118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
I doubt if Cummings will be sacked over this. Pains me to say but he may be one of the few people in government who seem have at least some grasp of the problems at hand.

He's not actually "in government" though, is he?

SpAds aren't elected, they are appointees of whichever politician employs them. In terms of the code of conduct they should (but very clearly don't) abide by, they are legally temporary Civil Servants (according to the Special Advisors Code of Conduct), and are required to follow the Civil Service Code. This is a précis of the core intent of that code, and these principles apply every bit as much to temporary Civil Servants as they do to establishedCivil Servants:

As a civil servant, you are appointed on merit on the basis of fair and open competition and are expected to carry out your role with dedication and a commitment to the Civil Service and its core values: integrity, honesty, objectivity and impartiality. In this code:
  • ‘integrity’ is putting the obligations of public service above your own personal interests
  • ‘honesty’ is being truthful and open
  • ‘objectivity’ is basing your advice and decisions on rigorous analysis of the evidence
  • ‘impartiality’ is acting solely according to the merits of the case and serving equally well governments of different political persuasions
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Old 23rd May 2020, 12:24
  #7119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
He's not actually "in government" though, is he?

SpAds aren't elected, they are appointees of whichever politician employs them. In terms of the code of conduct they should (but very clearly don't) abide by, they are legally temporary Civil Servants (according to the Special Advisors Code of Conduct), and are required to follow the Civil Service Code. This is a précis of the core intent of that code, and these principles apply every bit as much to temporary Civil Servants as they do to establishedCivil Servants:
How very quaint ! Civil Service Code ? I wonder that you could find your way thru' the cobwebs ! The Civil Service has been thoroughly politicised for about the last 50 or so years. Can anyone who saw it forget the riveting scenes filmed by the Beeb in some building in Whitehall on the occasion of the accession of His Holiness Anthony Blair followed by wee Georgie Broon and the excessive whooping and clapping by Civil Servants which followed their individual accession to the throne of No. 10 ?

Partisanship ? What me gov ?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 12:38
  #7120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Kremmen View Post
How very quaint ! Civil Service Code ? I wonder that you could find your way thru' the cobwebs ! The Civil Service has been thoroughly politicised for about the last 50 or so years. Can anyone who saw it forget the riveting scenes filmed by the Beeb in some building in Whitehall on the occasion of the accession of His Holiness Anthony Blair followed by wee Georgie Broon and the excessive whooping and clapping by Civil Servants which followed their individual accession to the throne of No. 10 ?

Partisanship ? What me gov ?
I was a Civil Servant for pretty much my entire career. A copy of the Civil Service Code was always in my briefcase, most probably still is, I think. Politics was forbidden, and this was a rule that was strongly enforced. I was disciplined, and had to go before a tribunal, simply because I was seen using my car on election day in 1983, complete with SDP - Liberal Alliance posters, to collect voters and take them to the polling station (I was on leave at the time). It was made very clear to me that my breach of the code was such that I could face dismissal. As it happened, the tribunal accepted that my breach of the code had been accidental (I pleaded ignorance - hence the reason I now know the damned code inside out!), and that my apparent political activities did not constitute gross misconduct, so I was let off with a written warning. That written warning is still on my file, as I was made aware of it again on the day I retired in 2010, believe it or not!

You can read the Code of Conduct for Special Advisors here: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ode-of-conduct and there is a copy of the Civil Service Code here: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...l-service-code

The wording has changed slightly since I retired, but there is still a requirement to observe political impartiality:

Political Impartiality
You must:
  • serve the government, whatever its political persuasion, to the best of your ability in a way which maintains political impartiality and is in line with the requirements of this code, no matter what your own political beliefs are
  • act in a way which deserves and retains the confidence of ministers, while at the same time ensuring that you will be able to establish the same relationship with those whom you may be required to serve in some future government
  • comply with any restrictions that have been laid down on your political activities
You must not:
  • act in a way that is determined by party political considerations, or use official resources for party political purposes
  • allow your personal political views to determine any advice you give or your actions.
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