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Coronavirus: The Thread

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Coronavirus: The Thread

Old 11th May 2020, 07:48
  #6481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
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The supposed link between Covid-19 susceptibility and vitamin D isn't proven
And I have no doubt it won't be. The whole idea behinds promotion of Vitamin D is how it enables/encourages the immune system and is not disease specific.
To be fair to John Campbell, his background may be in teaching but it has been in teaching nursing.
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Old 11th May 2020, 07:50
  #6482 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
Plus, without going off thread too much, the veiled hints from the media about BAME suffering more because of disadvantaged backgrounds and lower incomes despite proportionally more senior doctors and consultants in the NHS coming from from this group. So, as you say SHJ, more possibly to do with genetic makeup and culture rather than perceived ‘injustices in our inherently racist society’
The ONS stats last week weren’t veiled hints. Their research showed BAME folk being 4 times likely to die, reducing to around twice as likely if socio-economic factors were taken into account. I don’t think anyone looking at the problem from a balanced perspective believes there is a single factor in this, but clearly living circumstances and genetics have a significant impact.
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Old 11th May 2020, 07:53
  #6483 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wowzz View Post
Isnt some of this a little over the top? Washing wine bottles for example. The only person to have touched the wine bottle prior to yourself, will have been the shop assistant who placed it on the shelf. The chances of them having CV19, and you then touching the bottle in exactly the same place as they did, seems unlikely in the extreme. The same goes for virtually all packaged grocery items. Washing your hands more frequently at home would surely be just as effective.
Personally I don't think that taking basic precautions like this, especially if you're over 60, is at all OTT. It's been proven that this virus can remain viable on hard surfaces for tens of hours, even days. Watching people in supermarkets shows that often they pick things up and put them back on the shelves, so any number of hands could have touched anything before it gets put in your basket.

Although hand washing is very effective, remembering to wash your hands after touching anything that's been brought into the house in the past day or two isn't easy, plus it gets to be pretty tough on your hands. Far easier to just wipe down stuff with a bit of suitable disinfectant when unpacking it, as that saves having to remember what might possible be still contaminated.

We've been disinfecting everything that's brought into the house, milk deliveries, shopping, the post, parcels, etc for weeks now. We have a well established routine and it doesn't take long. I have a fine spray bottle filled with 70% isopropanol/water mixture, and some small microfibre cloths, and just give most things a spray and wipe over as they get unpacked. Stuff that can't be sprayed with this stuff, like fresh fruit and veg, gets washed with a spray of hypochloric acid disinfectant. as we'd have washed the fruit and veg anyway it's no hassle to just do this with a safe disinfectant like this.
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Old 11th May 2020, 08:03
  #6484 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Personally I don't think that taking basic precautions like this, especially if you're over 60, is at all OTT. It's been proven that this virus can remain viable on hard surfaces for tens of hours, even days. Watching people in supermarkets shows that often they pick things up and put them back on the shelves, so any number of hands could have touched anything before it gets put in your basket.

Although hand washing is very effective, remembering to wash your hands after touching anything that's been brought into the house in the past day or two isn't easy, plus it gets to be pretty tough on your hands. Far easier to just wipe down stuff with a bit of suitable disinfectant when unpacking it, as that saves having to remember what might possible be still contaminated.

We've been disinfecting everything that's brought into the house, milk deliveries, shopping, the post, parcels, etc for weeks now. We have a well established routine and it doesn't take long. I have a fine spray bottle filled with 70% isopropanol/water mixture, and some small microfibre cloths, and just give most things a spray and wipe over as they get unpacked. Stuff that can't be sprayed with this stuff, like fresh fruit and veg, gets washed with a spray of hypochloric acid disinfectant. as we'd have washed the fruit and veg anyway it's no hassle to just do this with a safe disinfectant like this.
Little farm guest house near us is offering take away Hamburgers - great, from free range cattle.

Tasted dreadful after spraying with disinfectant though...
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Old 11th May 2020, 08:03
  #6485 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Personally I don't think that taking basic precautions like this, especially if you're over 60, is at all OTT. It's been proven that this virus can remain viable on hard surfaces for tens of hours, even days. Watching people in supermarkets shows that often they pick things up and put them back on the shelves, so any number of hands could have touched anything before it gets put in your basket.

Although hand washing is very effective, remembering to wash your hands after touching anything that's been brought into the house in the past day or two isn't easy, plus it gets to be pretty tough on your hands. Far easier to just wipe down stuff with a bit of suitable disinfectant when unpacking it, as that saves having to remember what might possible be still contaminated.

We've been disinfecting everything that's brought into the house, milk deliveries, shopping, the post, parcels, etc for weeks now. We have a well established routine and it doesn't take long. I have a fine spray bottle filled with 70% isopropanol/water mixture, and some small microfibre cloths, and just give most things a spray and wipe over as they get unpacked. Stuff that can't be sprayed with this stuff, like fresh fruit and veg, gets washed with a spray of hypochloric acid disinfectant. as we'd have washed the fruit and veg anyway it's no hassle to just do this with a safe disinfectant like this.
I do the majority of our shopping in the discounters, where there is a very limited range. ie one type of cornflakes in one size only. The customers know what they want, pick up that packet, and that's it. No faffing around comparing packets. As for fresh veg, well, it gets steamed anyway.
I suppose it all comes down to the level of risk you are prepared to take. I'm certainly not going to start washing down the newspaper before I read it.
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Old 11th May 2020, 08:03
  #6486 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Personally I don't think that taking basic precautions like this, especially if you're over 60, is at all OTT. It's been proven that this virus can remain viable on hard surfaces for tens of hours, even days. Watching people in supermarkets shows that often they pick things up and put them back on the shelves, so any number of hands could have touched anything before it gets put in your basket.

Although hand washing is very effective, remembering to wash your hands after touching anything that's been brought into the house in the past day or two isn't easy, plus it gets to be pretty tough on your hands. Far easier to just wipe down stuff with a bit of suitable disinfectant when unpacking it, as that saves having to remember what might possible be still contaminated.

We've been disinfecting everything that's brought into the house, milk deliveries, shopping, the post, parcels, etc for weeks now. We have a well established routine and it doesn't take long. I have a fine spray bottle filled with 70% isopropanol/water mixture, and some small microfibre cloths, and just give most things a spray and wipe over as they get unpacked. Stuff that can't be sprayed with this stuff, like fresh fruit and veg, gets washed with a spray of hypochloric acid disinfectant. as we'd have washed the fruit and veg anyway it's no hassle to just do this with a safe disinfectant like this.
Maybe in this household we're wrong, but we have taken no extra steps to disinfect, or specially sanitise anything that we'be bought, but then again we don't wash salads either, unless they are obviously dirty - fresh out of the ground for example. Touch wood, no issues before or during the current covid-19 outbreak.

So far as adhering to the governments edicts - absolutely we do, looking at the roads around here, I'd say we're heading towards being a minority.
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Old 11th May 2020, 08:16
  #6487 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Maybe in this household we're wrong, but we have taken no extra steps to disinfect, or specially sanitise anything that we'be bought, but then again we don't wash salads either, unless they are obviously dirty - fresh out of the ground for example. Touch wood, no issues before or during the current covid-19 outbreak.

So far as adhering to the governments edicts - absolutely we do, looking at the roads around here, I'd say we're heading towards being a minority.
Yes, your approach is the same as ours. Must admit to washing our hands more than we used to, especially after a shopping trip. I would be more concerned touching surfaces that are likely to be constantly touched, such as door handles, card readers etc, rather that a letter through the post or a bottle of beer.
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Old 11th May 2020, 08:40
  #6488 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wowzz View Post
Yes, your approach is the same as ours. Must admit to washing our hands more than we used to, especially after a shopping trip. I would be more concerned touching surfaces that are likely to be constantly touched, such as door handles, card readers etc, rather that a letter through the post or a bottle of beer.
The card machine and the self service checkout at the supermarket are probably the most risky things you can touch, unless you're using public transport which currently I have no need to do. I might consider wearing gloves were I to need to use the bus or tram. I try wherever possible to keep my spending down below £45 so that payments can be made contactless.
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Old 11th May 2020, 08:47
  #6489 (permalink)  
 
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I think there's a risk in thinking that hand washing alone is going to prevent infection, as the only reason for doing it is to prevent contamination being transferred from a surface to your eyes, nose and mouth. You cannot get infected just from skin contact, this virus can only penetrate cells in the lining of the respiratory tract, as far as anyone knows so far.

The high risk activity is touching your face with hands that may have picked up viral particles from a surface that was contaminated by someone that's exhaled or coughed within a short distance of it in the previous day or two. All it takes is an infective person to be walking around a shop spraying viral particles around as they go, maybe long before those items subsequently get picked up and put in someone's shopping basket. Those that choose to pick things up then put them back again just spread it around from item to item as they go. Bearing in mind that roughly 3,000 million viral particles will comfortably fit on the head of a pin, and that it seems to take a few hundred, to may be a few thousand, viral particles to cause disease, it's pretty easy to see how transfer of enough contamination to cause infection is pretty easy.
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Old 11th May 2020, 09:05
  #6490 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wowzz View Post
I suppose it all comes down to the level of risk you are prepared to take. I'm certainly not going to start washing down the newspaper before I read it.

You don't iron it before reading ? That sterilizes it nicely.
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Old 11th May 2020, 09:23
  #6491 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
You don't iron it before reading ? That sterilizes it nicely.
You don't have somebody ironing it for you? Uuuuh, what has the world become to...
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Old 11th May 2020, 09:27
  #6492 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like the PPE in the NHS is proving adequate after all. Figures for those aged 20-64 in England and Wales.

I presume the male security guards include those supervising the queues outside supermarkets etc?

Male security guards at highest risk of dying from coronavirus

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...s-ons-11986382

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ing20april2020

Main points

  • A total of 2,494 deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19) in the working age population (those aged 20 to 64 years) of England and Wales were registered up to and including 20 April 2020.
  • Nearly two-thirds of these deaths were among men (1,612 deaths), with the rate of death involving COVID-19 being statistically higher in males, with 9.9 deaths per 100,000 compared with 5.2 deaths per 100,000 females (882 deaths).
  • Compared with the rate among people of the same sex and age in England and Wales, men working in the lowest skilled occupations had the highest rate of death involving COVID-19, with 21.4 deaths per 100,000 males (225 deaths); men working as security guards had one of the highest rates, with 45.7 deaths per 100,000 (63 deaths).
  • Men and women working in social care, a group including care workers and home carers, both had significantly raised rates of death involving COVID-19, with rates of 23.4 deaths per 100,000 males (45 deaths) and 9.6 deaths per 100,000 females (86 deaths).
  • Healthcare workers, including those with jobs such as doctors and nurses, were not found to have higher rates of death involving COVID-19 when compared with the rate among those whose death involved COVID-19 of the same age and sex in the general population.
  • Among men, a number of other specific occupations were found to have raised rates of death involving COVID-19, including: taxi drivers and chauffeurs (36.4 deaths per 100,000); bus and coach drivers (26.4 deaths per 100,000); chefs (35.9 deaths per 100,000); and sales and retail assistants (19.8 deaths per 100,000).
  • This analysis does not prove conclusively that the observed rates of death involving COVID-19 are necessarily caused by differences in occupational exposure; we adjusted for age, but not for other factors such as ethnic group and place of residence. We have also published an article that explores possible differences in occupation exposure to COVID-19.
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Old 11th May 2020, 09:41
  #6493 (permalink)  
 
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New cases in Wuhan

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coron...wn/ar-BB13SYWP
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Old 11th May 2020, 10:21
  #6494 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC - interesting stats, although I wonder if these fatality rates are due in part to the fact these people are still working?

On this topic, I think the Government are going to have a real fight on their hands to persuade unions that it is safe for the members to go back to work. Also, as I noted before, our litigation culture will also prove to be deeply problematic. It may be that the Govt needs to set up a compensation fund for anyone who's hospitalised - or dies - from Covid, to take the pressure off employers.
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Old 11th May 2020, 10:33
  #6495 (permalink)  
 
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You really couldn't make this up. Governments (and I'm not taking a pop at the current one) really are inept when it comes to pretty well all things IT:-

https://more.talktalk.co.uk/news/202...e-older-phones

If their wonderful tracking app doesn't work on older phones, nor on phones made by one of the major global players how do they believe they have a hope in hell's chance of getting 80% of smart phone users to get it??

I've just bought a reconditioned Huawei (because I'm tight and I now have the requirement from work for a smart phone) and even if I were inclined to put the app on it, it now appears there's little point in trying. Mrs ATN's phone is 4 years old and therefore I guess also won't be compatible.
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Old 11th May 2020, 10:41
  #6496 (permalink)  
 
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Safe to go to work? The fact that is mind boggling is how low the figure is, under 2,500, compared to the size of the population and the overall number of COVID deaths.

It reinforces the fact that the vast, vast majority of deaths are amongst non-working retirees and chronic ill over 65. The real question we have to consider is have we crippled the economy and scared the working population into cowering in their homes against an infection which, for those under 65, is less dangerous than a normal flu epidemic.
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Old 11th May 2020, 10:49
  #6497 (permalink)  
 
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ATNotts,

Huawei phones run Android 10. They just can no longer access the Android App Store. Users should still be able to download the NHSX App.
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Old 11th May 2020, 10:51
  #6498 (permalink)  
 
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The legal profession aren't exactly helping the situation. A lawyer chum of mine put the fear of God in to me regarding the measures employers would have to take, and risks were any of their workforce to contract the virus (even if it couldn't be proven they caught it at work). If this is going to become the new normal, I reckon a good number of businesses won't bother restarting, given the hassle and additional financial risks it will entail.
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Old 11th May 2020, 10:54
  #6499 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
ATNotts,

Huawei phones run Android 10. They just can no longer access the Android App Store. Users should still be able to download the NHSX App.
Via Google Play I assume?
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Old 11th May 2020, 11:01
  #6500 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Via Google Play I assume?

Probably have to side load it using the APK file, which is a bit like a .exe file in Windows. Not hard to do, and safe enough if the APK has come from a known to be safe source (not something to do for APKs from untrusted sources though). I would guess that this is the only way to load this with a Huawei phone, as Google have blocked the Play Store I believe (not sure if the block is retrospective or not, though).
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