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American Herald Tribune: electronic meddling caused Iran Shoot down

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American Herald Tribune: electronic meddling caused Iran Shoot down

Old 19th Jan 2020, 09:24
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American Herald Tribune: electronic meddling caused Iran Shoot down

Someone is peddling the idea that the Americans reaaly caused the wholw thing.
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Pilip Giraldi, a former counter-terrorism specialist and military intelligence officer of the CIA, penned a piece in the American Herald Tribune speculating that the U.S. launched several cyber-attacks, one on an Iranian missile defense system, and another on the transponder of the doomed Ukrainian plane.

Giraldi explains the Iranian missile operator experienced extreme "jamming" and Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752's transponder was switched off several minutes before the two Russian made Tor missiles were launched.
"The shutdown of the transponder, which would have automatically signaled to the operator and Tor electronics that the plane was civilian, instead automatically indicated that it was hostile. The operator, having been particularly briefed on the possibility of incoming American cruise missiles, then fired," he said.


I have often wondered what would happen if you built an adsb out transceiver and sent out any multiple of fake ADSB out messages for aircraft all over the sky.
I guess they would not show up ona RADAR paint, but it would still be confusing. You could similary send out numerous fake mode C or Mode S meessages to confuse all and sundry.

Mick
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 10:20
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Originally Posted by mullokintyre View Post
Someone is peddling the idea that the Americans really caused the whole thing.
"Someone" being the American Herald Tribune. Enough said.

Has anyone seen any evidence to support their assertion that the transponder had stopped functioning even before the missiles were launched ? Thought not.
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 10:30
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Giraldi explains the Iranian missile operator experienced extreme "jamming" and Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752's transponder was switched off several minutes before the two Russian made Tor missiles were launched.
If transponder was jammed why it worked all the time for the civilian radar as it was seen on FR24 and stopped only when a/c was hit by the first missile? It doesn't make much sense that military grade equipment would be "blind" when civilian radar was able to recognise the very same flight.
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 10:54
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Question for those who might know: if military radar is "experiencing extreme jamming", wouldn't civilian radar be jammed as well? It doesn't make much sense that only mil radar is disturbed but civilian radar is fully functional. If so, should military upgrade its radars to civilian, more robust ones that are immune to interference
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 11:58
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Originally Posted by Beamr View Post
Question for those who might know: if military radar is "experiencing extreme jamming", wouldn't civilian radar be jammed as well? It doesn't make much sense that only mil radar is disturbed but civilian radar is fully functional. If so, should military upgrade its radars to civilian, more robust ones that are immune to interference
When you "jam" a radar it is a specific radar. Modern radars are sophisticated enough that you have to know its frequency and mode of operation to successfully jam or spoof it. Old "barrage" jammers are rarely successful today.
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 12:53
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Originally Posted by Beamr View Post
Question for those who might know: if military radar is "experiencing extreme jamming", wouldn't civilian radar be jammed as well? It doesn't make much sense that only mil radar is disturbed but civilian radar is fully functional. If so, should military upgrade its radars to civilian, more robust ones that are immune to interference
civilian radar is abit of a misnomer. You get a primary return which is a transponder interrogation. Military radar is a secondary return, aka a “skin paint”. Radar jamming is frequency dependent and a modern missile system will have frequency agility, the ability to jump frequencies readily. Modern jammers also jump frequencies to counter the radar switching. This was a class A ef up or a willful act.
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 13:29
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Thank you for this, appreciated.
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 14:58
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Originally Posted by 4runner View Post
civilian radar is abit of a misnomer. You get a primary return which is a transponder interrogation. Military radar is a secondary return, aka a “skin paint”. Radar jamming is frequency dependent and a modern missile system will have frequency agility, the ability to jump frequencies readily. Modern jammers also jump frequencies to counter the radar switching. This was a class A ef up or a willful act.
Mostly wrong. Primary return is the 'skin paint' as you call it; secondary is the transponder returns (aka Secondary Surveillance Radar). Many civilian radar units operate SSR only but of course military ones operate on primary as incoming aircraft don’t obligingly squawk.
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Old 19th Jan 2020, 15:01
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Originally Posted by 4runner View Post
civilian radar is abit of a misnomer. You get a primary return which is a transponder interrogation. Military radar is a secondary return, aka a “skin paint”. Radar jamming is frequency dependent and a modern missile system will have frequency agility, the ability to jump frequencies readily. Modern jammers also jump frequencies to counter the radar switching. This was a class A ef up or a willful act.
Not at all correct.
I think you need to brush up on what Primary Radar and Secondary Surveilance Radar are, and how they work.
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Old 20th Jan 2020, 09:04
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Originally Posted by tmmorris View Post
Mostly wrong. Primary return is the 'skin paint' as you call it; secondary is the transponder returns (aka Secondary Surveillance Radar). Many civilian radar units operate SSR only but of course military ones operate on primary as incoming aircraft don’t obligingly squawk.
I wrote it backwards. You fixed it.
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