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War in Australia (any Oz Politics)

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics)

Old 12th Apr 2020, 02:45
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
An inanimate object just like the collection of pages known as the bible.
A note to all who think it’s new or clever or edgy to continuously shout their discovery that organised religion has many irrational aspects.
It’s not news, even to most believers. That’s why it’s called FAITH.

Also a note to the social media generation who’ve come to believe that it’s clever and edgy to blame the problems of the world on their parent’s generation - if you’d read a few books you would know that this belief has been held by every generation since Pontius soloed. OK Boomer is only a winning argument in the mind of the writer.

Ideas like these may be clever and edgy on twitter, which is basically 100 million people slapping each other on the back. If the coming stay-at-home months have any positive aspects, it may be that people will tire of their 24 hour virtual echo chambers and actually talk, think and read.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 03:56
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JustinHeywood View Post
Also a note to the social media generation whoíve come to believe that itís clever and edgy to blame the problems of the world on their parentís generation - if youíd read a few books you would know that this belief has been held by every generation since Pontius soloed. OK Boomer is only a winning argument in the mind of the writer.
Nothing to do with Millenials or the "social media generation" my friend. Church attendance started fast decline in the 60's/70's, you can thank the Baby Boomer generation for that. Religious marriage dropped in the 80s/90s, thank Generation X for that. Not too far back for you? Go back 250 years and listen to what some of the US Founding Fathers said about organised religion. (Churches are human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind - Thomas Paine, Religions always produce more acrimony and hatreds than any other cause - George Washington). Bet there was no twitter in 1783.


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Old 12th Apr 2020, 05:04
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 601 View Post
When they find all their all important religious iThingy is just that, a thing, no soul, just a cold hard lump of plastic.
No soul? That's not surprising. They don't exist.

I might add, I'm 60, I don't own an "iThingy", and I've never been in thrall to organised religion.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 05:08
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
...the Crucifixtion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ is still relevant today as it was 2000+ years ago.
Is it now? Why?
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 05:28
  #165 (permalink)  
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As if politics wasn't divisive enough, we've now added religion to the mix.

The future of this thread doesn't look rosy.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 05:37
  #166 (permalink)  
 
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Religious people see the world differently.
The congregation prays to its particular Sky Pixie: "Great creator, please make this virus stop."

The virus doesn't stop.

Religious people: "The Creator moves in strange ways."
Non-religious people : "F***in' told you so!"
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 06:37
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TWT View Post
As if politics wasn't divisive enough, we've now added religion to the mix.
Hard to avoid when discussing politics in Australia, particularly federal politics.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 07:45
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Crownstay01 View Post
Hard to avoid when discussing politics in Australia, particularly federal politics.
Y've got that right.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 08:20
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Crownstay01 View Post
Hard to avoid when discussing politics in Australia, particularly federal politics.
Touche. As Australian society has become more secular over the last few years it seems religion has gained a more influential foothold in politics. A minimum of 25% of federal parliament attend services (via the Official Prayer group), compared to less than 10% of public, a lot of them being Pentecostalists.

It's almost as if they have discovered the way to gain influence and dictate policy (tax breaks for religion, funding for religious schools, public school chaplains, the religious "freedom" bill) is not to have the majority of the public attending services but disproportionately influence politics. For a country that's barely religious our leaders spend a large amount of time on topics that certain religions are interested in.

You don't hear politicians end speeches with "God Bless Australia" here compared to "God Bless America", but who knows what may happen in a more religious political landscape.

Last edited by dr dre; 12th Apr 2020 at 08:47.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 09:01
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Is it now? Why?
Are you really curious or do you already know the answer?

It's almost as if they have discovered the way to gain influence and dictate policy (tax breaks for religion, funding for religious schools, public school chaplains, the religious "freedom" bill) is not to have the majority of the public attending services but disproportionately influence politics. For a country that's barely religious our leaders spend a large amount of time on topics that certain religions are interested in.
You obviously don't live in Victoria then where the aetheists parties like Labor and Reason parties are trying to bring in legislation that will make it illegal to say anything not deemed by them to be PC.

My reponse to your post is thank God we have 1/4 of our Federal Parliamentarians who have a faith in something greater than themselves. Compare that to Hawke Keating and Whitlam who only had a faith that they were the greatest.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 09:20
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
My reponse to your post is thank God we have 1/4 of our Federal Parliamentarians who have a faith in something greater than themselves.
And what exactly is that "something greater than themself"?
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 01:58
  #172 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
And what exactly is that "something greater than themself"?
Clive Palmer and Gina Rinehart?
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 02:10
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Are you really curious or do you already know the answer?
You made the claim, so I'm asking why you think that?

You obviously don't live in Victoria then where the aetheists parties like Labor and Reason parties are trying to bring in legislation that will make it illegal to say anything not deemed by them to be PC.
Labor is an atheist party? That will come as a surprise to all those on the Catholic right in the ALP. What legislation are you referring to?

And since were discussing Victoria​​​​​, what's your take on the influx of Mormons in the Liberal Party there?

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Old 13th Apr 2020, 02:58
  #174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
....

It's almost as if they have discovered the way to gain...disproportionately influence politics

You don't hear politicians end speeches with "God Bless Australia" here compared to "God Bless America", but who knows what may happen in a more religious political landscape.
Bloody hell dr dre, after 64 posts from you claiming religion was all but dead in Australia, youíre now going to bang on about how these evil churches secretly run the country in spite of being Ďalmost completely desertedí by Australians.
Is there no end to the conspiracy youíve uncovered? Is a bald albino involved?

Is it time we called in Tom Hanks?

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Old 13th Apr 2020, 04:13
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JustinHeywood View Post
Bloody hell dr dre, after 64 posts from you claiming religion was all but dead in Australia, you’re now going to bang on about how these evil churches secretly run the country in spite of being ‘almost completely deserted’ by Australians.
I gave numbers proving religion is now an important thing for only a tiny minority of Aussies, but also said how heavily religious types now seem to be having a disproportionate effect on our politics.
For instance, the National School Chaplaincy Programme:
In May 2014, the Abbott Government removed the provision to fund secular student well-being officers, meaning all chaplains had to be affiliated with a religion.
Why do I need to have a religious affiliation to provide student well-being services to secular students in supposedly secular public schools (a religious test)?
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 04:51
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
I gave numbers proving religion is now an important thing for only a tiny minority of Aussies, but also said how heavily religious types now seem to be having a disproportionate effect on our politics.
For instance, the National School Chaplaincy Programme:

Why do I need to have a religious affiliation to provide student well-being services to secular students in supposedly secular public schools (a religious test)?
The fact that some politicians attend church regularly proves absolutely nothing, and Iím sure I could find some random link that shows that far FEWER politicians now attend church than did say 50 years ago, you know, before religious observance Ďcollapsedí in this country.
Iím also sure I could find a link that shows that show there is far, far less religious instruction and intrusion in schools than there was even 20 years ago. Catholic schools, for instance, were staffed almost exclusively by clergy; nowadays many have not one priest, brother or nun on staff.

And yet, you see conspiracy and hidden agendas everywhere. Could it be that because you yourself have no religious beliefs*, you feel that everyone should be just like you and if they arenít, they are either stupid and poor (see your comments above) or up to some evil skullduggery (also see your comments above)?

*(I personally donít believe in any spiritual being either, but hope to be proved wrong)
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 08:21
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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I’m also sure I could find a link that shows that show there is far, far less religious instruction and intrusion in schools than there was even 20 years ago.
I went to through the Australian Public School System more than 20 years ago. There were definitely no chaplains at the expense of secular social workers then, so why now are secular people who wish to provide wellbeing support to secular students in secular public schools discriminated against?

Even if Religious instruction and intrusion is proven to be less now than it was 20 years ago it should be zero. If you want your children to have a religious education go to a religious school or give your child bible study lessons after school with your own money.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 10:48
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
I went to through the Australian Public School System more than 20 years ago. There were definitely no chaplains at the expense of secular social workers then, so why now are secular people who wish to provide wellbeing support to secular students in secular public schools discriminated against?

Even if Religious instruction and intrusion is proven to be less now than it was 20 years ago it should be zero. If you want your children to have a religious education go to a religious school or give your child bible study lessons after school with your own money.
With all the outrageous waste, incompetence and rank stupidity that occurs throughout the education sector, all the wasted opportunities and ruined futures, youíre in a tizz about the fact that an hour a week might occasionally be spent teaching kids something you donít agree with and is no doubt ignored by the kids anyway. In the scheme of things, itís very small beer.

Methinks the feigned outrage over this, like the fevered conspiracy theories about secretive parliamentary cliques and the witch-hunt against Pell, is just a way to give old-fashioned religious bigotry a (thin) veneer of legitimacy.



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Old 13th Apr 2020, 11:47
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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Even if Religious instruction and intrusion is proven to be less now than it was 20 years ago it should be zero. If you want your children to have a religious education go to a religious school or give your child bible study lessons after school with your own money.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]

I actually agree with you on that one.The problem with the current system is it is an opt out system and the schools don't provide any other activity for those students who don't attend the RE lessons. My wife used to run a lunchtime playgroup at primary school for kids who were given permission by their parents to attend. There were more families coming to church from that activity than the RE lessons However with the Greens Equality Bill in Victoria and the Reason Party (formerly the Sex Party, why the change in name?) Racial and Religious Tolerance amendment Bill (2019) the ability to do even this will be criminalized.

I also agree with this statement:
Methinks the feigned outrage over this, like the fevered conspiracy theories about secretive parliamentary cliques and the witch-hunt against Pell, is just a way to give old-fashioned religious bigotry a (thin) veneer of legitimacy.
BTW there is no cost for Bible Study lessons, its done for free in the church and there is quite a lot of free information on the internet. This might be a good place to start https://www.publicchristianity.org/
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 12:33
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JustinHeywood View Post
Methinks the feigned outrage over this, like the fevered conspiracy theories about secretive parliamentary cliques and the witch-hunt against Pell, is just a way to give old-fashioned religious bigotry a (thin) veneer of legitimacy.
It's not feigned outrage, it's a legitimate concern. I would be outraged if someone was denied a job in a public school or anywhere just because they were Christian/Muslim/Hindu/Pastafarian/Jedi/whatever. So why is similar outrage about denying atheists/secularists/the irreligious the job of provided welfare services to public school students "feigned"? Obviously not feigned enough to stop the ACT from rightfully banning chaplains from their schools and mandating secularism at work, any religion to be confined to private life.

The problem with the current system is it is an opt out system and the schools don't provide any other activity for those students who don't attend the RE lessons.
Well NSW has secular ethics classes that are growing in popularity even though the NSW government has done their best to put barriers to stop parents enrolling their kids in those classes. (I guess that's the price to pay to gain Fred Nile's vote)

BTW there is no cost for Bible Study lessons, its done for free in the church and there is quite a lot of free information on the internet. This might be a good place to start
Thanks,

I do respect some of the stories about Jesus and think there are some good philosophical points he makes (which a great deal of his supposed followers fail to follow ). It's just I see them as for what they are and put them alongside the philosophical tales of Ancient Greece or Rome or Buddhism or Hinduism or Islam or New age faith or Australian Indigenous culture. And I abhor organised religion and it's influence on our secular society.
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