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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 14th Dec 2019, 05:39
  #121 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by exeng View Post
I like many others joined the labour party for 3 in order to vote Corbyn as leader.
A large number of city boys did the same, absolutely brilliant !

I think Labour needs to promote women, especially from the Windrush generation so if the divine Ms Abbott stands for the leadership, I'll join and vote for her.

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Old 14th Dec 2019, 05:48
  #122 (permalink)  
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The hospitality sector will doubles be grateful for this boost to their profits as the celebrations in certain hostelries and outlets will testify, not forgetting "shall we do a couple of extra ( recreational use only ) lines to celebrate dahling ! " pillars of society.

C4 News last night. For a so called left leaning ( usually by those who don't watch it ) programme it contained a broad spectrum of interviews. Hopefully, Labour will have noted why so many gifted the serial liar this election. Also contained interviews with people who, not unlike myself, suggested Boris now has to deliver on his promises....and won't.

Boris is off to make a token gesture visit to "The North " today.....which probably won't include Merseyside or Liverpool.

All we need now is an appendix to Dave's Big Book saying how he knew his strategic decision to capitulate would result in an overwhelming Tory majority.

Here's Ms Marina Hyde ( award winning columnist ...for those who may have missed her award ) ........

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-jeremy-corbyn

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 14th Dec 2019 at 06:46.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 06:36
  #123 (permalink)  
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Corbyn replies to question of why Labour lost the election......

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Old 14th Dec 2019, 06:46
  #124 (permalink)  
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John Crace not happy in the Grauniad, throwing bile equally at Boris and Corbyn.......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...brations-begin

Quote in The Times from Labour HQ .....

As the scale of the defeat sank in, some struggled to plot a path back into government. “Those northern seats are the same as safe Scottish areas in 2015,” one staff member said. “There’s no return. Let’s hope the [parliamentary Labour party] find their collective spine. No point being scared of the members when the voters hate you.”
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 07:43
  #125 (permalink)  
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POLITICO: https://www.politico.eu/article/domi...ative-victory/

........

Cummings' world

Contrary to rumors that Cummings planned to depart after election, friends told POLITICO's London Playbook on Friday morning that he planned to stick around.

One thing the nation should expect from a Johnson administration with Cummings at its heart is change. The former political adviser in the Department for Education spent years railing against the inefficiencies of the British civil service and the Westminster political system for what he saw as its bloated, plodding and narcissistic failure to address the ills of the nation. If his online scribblings are taken at face value, Cummings will aim to stuff the Whitehall machine with scientists, mathematicians and “creators” from the start-up world in a bid to turbo-boost activity. Personnel will be slashed, and working practices such as “flexi-time” which, he says, reduce productivity will be seriously curtailed.

Cummings floated bringing in Cabinet ministers from outside parliament and shaping government agencies in the mold of a U.S. military research team. He has already introduced techniques used by NASA into meetings of the government’s no-deal Brexit committee. His ultimate dream is to make Britain the “school of the world” — a leading nation in education and science, in a bid to help civilization counter existential threats such as nuclear war and resource conflict. In a blog written in the run-up to the general election, Cummings mooted hopes to “really change our economy for the better, making it more productive and fairer” by boosting long-term productivity, science, technology and helping the regions.

The way the Johnson administration communicates with the world also looks set to change. Vote Leave and Johnson's general election campaign sought to keep direct exposure of the prime minister to the media at a minimum, with brief press conferences and selective interviews. Journalists have raised concerns that daily briefings from government officials could be curtailed........

Whether or not Cummings will play an active role in the Johnson government, his mark is stamped onto the administration for the foreseeable future. He secured the vote for Brexit and has been instrumental in forcing its delivery. He changed the nature of political campaigning in Britain and gave Johnson a ready-made team from Vote Leave to fill roles in Downing Street. He proved — twice — that he can reach into the U.K. psyche like nobody else.

Johnson may be the frontman at the lectern outside Downing Street, but the next five years of British government belongs to Cummings.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 07:48
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Of course the wonderful irony in all of this is that Boris having made it to the job he has hankered after is about to see the country relegated to the ranks of the also rans. After Jan 31 his status will be reduced to that of the Number 10 flunky who a Emily Maitlis to her clear embarrassment mistook for Sajid Javid when he was opening the car door for Boris to climb in. What we can look forward to is our elected leader prostrating himself at the feet of His Trumpiness in the hope that a few crumbs may fall from his table.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 08:24
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Posts from roughly a year ago

Effluent Man

What I don't get is why, if they are so sure that things have not changed, the Leavers don't want another poll. This would be an excellent way to shut up the opposition to Brexit for once and all. Come on, let's be havin' you!

Effluent Man

The survey, of 20,086 people found that non voters had disproportionately moved towards Remain. In addition to this the biggest effect was that older voters had died, as would be expected. These were replaced by new voter, a stronger Remain cohort.

My, how things have changed.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 08:27
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
Posts from roughly a year ago

Effluent Man

What I don't get is why, if they are so sure that things have not changed, the Leavers don't want another poll. This would be an excellent way to shut up the opposition to Brexit for once and all. Come on, let's be havin' you!

Effluent Man

The survey, of 20,086 people found that non voters had disproportionately moved towards Remain. In addition to this the biggest effect was that older voters had died, as would be expected. These were replaced by new voter, a stronger Remain cohort.

My, how things have changed.
Have any figures been published about how young people voted?
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 09:16
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Well that's a thread hanger.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 09:22
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
Posts from roughly a year ago

Effluent Man

What I don't get is why, if they are so sure that things have not changed, the Leavers don't want another poll. This would be an excellent way to shut up the opposition to Brexit for once and all. Come on, let's be havin' you!

Effluent Man

The survey, of 20,086 people found that non voters had disproportionately moved towards Remain. In addition to this the biggest effect was that older voters had died, as would be expected. These were replaced by new voter, a stronger Remain cohort.

My, how things have changed.
He and Pace (cough) have been wrong on everything for three and a half years following the referendum that BOTH of the nom de plumes didn't have the minerals to vote in. Yet here he is again today after the biggest election victory in years still talking the country and the Government down. Best ignored if you ask me.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 09:29
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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After watching the news this morning, I have reached one conclusion.

This era of Polictics/Brexit will be remembered for one particular outcome. (IMHO)This is the era where there is now a movement of people who never accept a democratic vote. They have not been taught to understand that there are winners and losers. They have not grasped that, in this country, there is a Parliamentary system that may not be perfect, far from it, but it is how things work until someone comes up with something better.

There was a protest in London last night. These people were anti fascists. They were protesting that the democratic election produced the result that they didn't like. So they went on the rampage. Causing injury to Police and damage to public property. They will only accept a result that goes in their favour.
For those of you have spent 3 years not respecting a vote, this is your legacy to this country.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 09:55
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
After watching the news this morning, I have reached one conclusion.

This era of Polictics/Brexit will be remembered for one particular outcome. (IMHO)This is the era where there is now a movement of people who never accept a democratic vote. They have not been taught to understand that there are winners and losers. They have not grasped that, in this country, there is a Parliamentary system that may not be perfect, far from it, but it is how things work until someone comes up with something better.

There was a protest in London last night. These people were anti fascists. They were protesting that the democratic election produced the result that they didn't like. So they went on the rampage. Causing injury to Police and damage to public property. They will only accept a result that goes in their favour.
For those of you have spent 3 years not respecting a vote, this is your legacy to this country.
You are partly correct. But if the election was only about Brexit it would have been the same narrow result.

As mentioned above, and in many other places, Corbyn and company handed No.10 to Boris by making themselves unelectable. Thousands of traditional Labour voters could not support the extreme left wing policies and racist behaviour, so they voted Tory to keep them out.

Of course, they have now put in a government that if going further in the opposite direction. There is currently no middle ground in this country.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 10:55
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
You are partly correct. But if the election was only about Brexit it would have been the same narrow result.

As mentioned above, and in many other places, Corbyn and company handed No.10 to Boris by making themselves unelectable. Thousands of traditional Labour voters could not support the extreme left wing policies and racist behaviour, so they voted Tory to keep them out.

Of course, they have now put in a government that if going further in the opposite direction. There is currently no middle ground in this country.
The election was effective lost by Labour, in the person(s) of Corbyn and his cronies from Momentum who's vision for the UK was so extreme, as to make the party unelectable. I could have held my nose and voted Labour, something I haven't done since Blair's 2nd election had there been a sensible, more centrist leadership and manifesto. As it is I supported Anna Soubry in the hope that that might keep Johnson out - it didn't. What beggars belief is why those policy makers in the Labour party over the ave of 50 didn't manage to convince the Corbyn wing that you don't win elections with extreme policies from either side, and lets face it, beyond "Get Brexit Done" the Tory manifesto was nothing if it wasn't centrist. And it has to be accepted that in "Getting brexit Done" was only carrying out a mandate, however distasteful, that was given back in June 2016. If anyone believes that this result has got "Brexit Done" it's very likely they'll be disappointed big time come the end of 2020. It could drag on for another 5 years or so. I suspect actually that Johnson may play the long game but get a wonderful new deal with the EU by latest the 4th anniversary of his win this week, so that he can go the to country in December 2024 having fulfilled his promise of finally getting the whole charade done. His newly elected MPs are hardly going to bring his government after 6 months because he decides to extend transition by 12 / 24 / 46 months. Is that too cynical?

As for Labour, so far, 24 hours on from the result, they simply just don't seem to get it. Installing Long-Bailey or any of Corbyn's other inner circle as leader and carrying on with extreme policies simply isn't going to change anything. It will just ensure Johnson keeps the job until his state pension is due. May be no bad thing, his government may perform extremely well. The jury is out, nobody except Boris Johnson know's what his real leaning are, they should become pretty clear in the inevitable "first 100 days".
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 11:05
  #134 (permalink)  
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McDonnell falling on his sword too....... Happy days. Though the current team staying in to help elect a new leader smacks totally of preventing change.

It's nice to see all the red and gold balls on the tree outside No 10, they certainly scalped enough of them
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 11:06
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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The Nip - Your conclusion as to the state if the nation appeared to rely heavily on the concept of 'Democracy'. Would you care (unlike every other contributor to this forum) to define EXACTLY what you mean by the term or is it just yet another employment of weasly, mindless soundbite blah to justify the unjustifiable?
I wait with little hope.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 11:20
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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"The election was effective lost by Labour, in the person(s) of Corbyn and his cronies from Momentum who's vision for the UK was so extreme, as to make the party unelectable."

exactly - read the BBC news story on Bolsover - long term Labour voters who just couldn't stomach Corbyn and his London -based student Marxist fantasies

The interesting question is can the Tories marginalise Labour long-term in working class areas as the SNP have manged in Scotland - where there is now only 1 Labour MP. I can remember in Blairs time when half the Cabinet were Scots
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 11:27
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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I can remember in Blairs time when half the Cabinet were Scots
As can I. What we are seeing after this election is basically how reliant Labour are / were on Scotland to bring home election victories. Unless Labour morph into a party more in tune with the the concerns and ambitions of the majority in UK, then without some significant change in the electoral system we could be living in what is effectively a one party state in England and Wales, and pretty much a similar situation in Scotland, as it is nigh on impossible to break through as new new party under the FPTP system.

One party states bring no good anywhere, whether that be the UK, Russia or North Korea.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 11:36
  #138 (permalink)  
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As for Labour, so far, 24 hours on from the result, they simply just don't seem to get it. Installing Long-Bailey or any of Corbyn's other inner circle as leader and carrying on with extreme policies simply isn't going to change anything. It will just ensure Johnson keeps the job until his state pension is due. May be no bad thing, his government may perform extremely well. The jury is out, nobody except Boris Johnson know's what his real leaning are, they should become pretty clear in the inevitable "first 100 days".

i totally agree, I watched a lot of the election overnight as it happened and watching the head of Momentum was frightning in his views and total denial that their agenda was totally unelectable, what was worse was he couldn't see it nor could he understand it, even ex Labour MP's in the studio who were basically telling him that they were a dinosaur in the modern age failed to convince him. They need to kick momentum and all of the current leadership into touch and also return electing the leadership back in house.

Like him or loath him I think Boris comes across as a person the average punter can relate too, I also believe that his track record of running London as mayor for two terms puts him in good stead, interesting times ahead. One thing that impresses me is he is visiting those areas he won in the north, not simply thanks and back to London post election, it in itself shows those who voted that he cares and that they have been and are being heard.....

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Old 14th Dec 2019, 11:36
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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That PM from Slaine to ThorMos is indicative of what kind of lunatic is now running the asylum. I suspect there's not a lot of difference between the politics of Slaine and those of Dominic Cummings, who for all practical purposes is now running the country.

Oh, sorry! You though you had elected Boris Johnson? No, you elected the monkey; the organ grinder comes attached.

I'm off, shouldering manfully the withering, triumphant contempt of Brexiteers, taking my company, its jobs and its tax payments to the EU. Why? Here's my predictions for 2020 in the brave new Britain;

January; BoJo begs for short extension for withdrawing from EU, because he's beginning to understand its complexity. Or rather understand that is more complex than a few slogans, although he doesn't understand the complexities themselves, especially the problem with agreeing to create a border down the Irish Sea.

February. BoJo starts to roll back on many of his campaign promises as the difficulty/cost/stupidity of some of them are explained to him. The EU refuses to agree any significant change to the Withdrawal Agreement agreed to by Johnson.

March BoJo asks Parliament to support the WA agreed in 2019, and uses his majority to get it through. N. Ireland sees mass protests and violence.

April. BoJo tries to persuade the EU that they must allow Britain free trade without joining the Customs Union and obeying its rules. EU laugh politely and tell him to think again, which they continue to say for the rest of the year.

May BoJo finds out that when Trump says he wants a "Great Trade deal" with the UK, Trump means great for the USA, not so great for the UK.

June Exodus of major international manufacturers, finance houses etc speeds up, as they realise that the UK will probably end up with no trade deal with the EU.

July SNP realise that too, and start campaigning with increasing force for an Independence referendum. They threaten to hold one without Westminster agreement if they have to.

August As the economic situation worsens, many Conservative MPs from the Northern industrial cities withdraw support from the Government. Not enough, yet, to lose the majority, but going that way.

September. The media, reflecting public disillusion, start printing hostile articles about the Government, many along the lines of analysing the Government's failure to deliver on 75%, maybe more, of the promises made in its manifesto.

October A charismatic new leader has by now emerged for Labour, after months of soul-searching, who starts to re-centre the party away from the far left. He or she reminds people of what Tony Blair did in the 1990s.

November After a particularly bad month with the economy, unemployment shooting up, no deal with the EU in sight, ditto with the USA, Labour wins a No Confidence vote, and BoJo calls an election on December 10th.

December 10th Conservatives lose their majority, Labour and SNP form a coalition, set a January date for a referendum on leaving the EU.

January 2021 Referendum result is an overwhelming vote for Remain. SNP decide they want to to stay in UK.

There you go; you saw it first here.

Last edited by old,not bold; 14th Dec 2019 at 11:48.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 11:45
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
The Nip - Your conclusion as to the state if the nation appeared to rely heavily on the concept of 'Democracy'. Would you care (unlike every other contributor to this forum) to define EXACTLY what you mean by the term or is it just yet another employment of weasly, mindless soundbite blah to justify the unjustifiable?
I wait with little hope.
Firstly, you are not interested in anything other than trying deny the facts that are currently available re winning and losing with a majority.
Secondly, (in really simplistic terms) living in this country we have a Parliamentary democracy. Rules are defined about who can vote and who can't. The timings of elections was decided by the MPs themselves.
Anyone can stand as a potential MP. Even old grumpy people. You pay your money, make your pitch and wait for the result. The rules are there.
Within those rules, which have been around for years, the party with the most votes cast are known as the majority.
People might not like the party selected, but human nature, social responsibility have generally ensured that life goes on.

Now with selfish people such as yourself, you have failed to accept that great swathes of the population have a different view. You backed a side which lost. It happens. Move on get over yourself and respect that others have a different viewpoint. Maybe next time your side will prevail.
But as I said in my previous post, have we now reached the point of no one ever accepting a result that doesn't go in their favour again? Do people have to die to further their cause?
Do we now have permanent riots? Do the thick ignorant rent a mob carry on causing more trouble for the peaceful people because they are self important scum?
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