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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 14th Jul 2021, 11:32
  #8541 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
CJ,

I am referring to the known cyber campaigns for that purpose organised in Russia, China and North Korea - and can provide numerous sources to that effect.
No body denies they exist but I defy you to produce one shred of evidence that any of the racists posts actually came from those sources. They cover their tracks well, in fact they are more likely to appear to be domestic in origin. All you have is speculation.

The authors of the story have no way of actually telling the nationality or location of any of those sending this posts, let alone a concrete figure like 70%. If I used a VPN for this post it could appear to come from anywhere I choose and if there was the possibility of a comeback to my post, I would certainly use a VPN.
It is convenient to the government to push the foreign actors line. It may even have a grain of truth but the best psyops do.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 11:38
  #8542 (permalink)  
 
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VPN's offering that level of security are not in the public domain.

IG
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 11:42
  #8543 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC - You are also, by repetitive post content a campaigner on behalf of a political group who could never be classed as disinterested and whose 'agenda' is, to put it mildly, worrying.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 11:42
  #8544 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Imagegear View Post
VPN's offering that level of security are not in the public domain.

IG
I don't think it needs to be particularly clever, the quoted source, Centre for Countering Digital Hate, is hardly GCHQ.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 12:02
  #8545 (permalink)  
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Ninthace,

I have indeed, but I would suggest that very few of those posting such diatribes anonymously on social media would either bother to use, or be aware of, VPNs.

My question therefore is as to whether these were numerous individuals or more organised.

The organisation posting the information are nothing to do with the government and have no motive to provide other than the facts as they know them.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 12:06
  #8546 (permalink)  
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Elsewhere, in the glorious sunny uplands of the UK. those tireless and compassionate people at the DWP continue to demonstrate why any form of moral values, remember, they are being paid to do this, will never be part of the job spec.

Takes a lot of cold courage to act in this way after all,

DWP supporters may wish to remain silent given the overwhelming evidence as to the calibre of employee and, of course, at the very top a certain Minister..who wlill probably offer the usual cosmetic apology and that will be that.

DWP policy of cold-calling disabled people over benefit claims to end | Benefits | The Guardian
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 12:22
  #8547 (permalink)  
 
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In this age of paranoia, I wouldn’t put it past an extremist element within the very group that are victims of the abuse, with the sole intention of whipping up fear and division. That’s why, as has been said before, we stop feeding these trolls by even giving them publicity through media coverage - whoever they are. There’s a hardcore group of racists/troublemakers that will never be ‘converted’ or re-educated whatever message is put out there. Cut off the oxygen that gives them any credibility.

All this posturing is preaching to the converted. The vast majority of those that attend sporting events just want to get on with the game, they don’t care about the colour of the players.

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Old 14th Jul 2021, 12:32
  #8548 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Ninthace,

I have indeed, but I would suggest that very few of those posting such diatribes anonymously on social media would either bother to use, or be aware of, VPNs.

My question therefore is as to whether these were numerous individuals or more organised.

The organisation posting the information are nothing to do with the government and have no motive to provide other than the facts as they know them.
The source may not be government related but where was the story published?
I suggest the use of VPNs is more widespread than you think. Especially by anyone wishing to protect their privacy on public wifi.
Are you saying racists groups can't be organised?
I would expect a foreign actor to be sophisticated enough to appear to come from a domestic source - too easy to discredit otherwise.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 13:31
  #8549 (permalink)  
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Ninthace, in response to the accusation that this is, in some way, "deflection" by the government - I will point out exactly the same question and points are being raised by the New Statesman, as close to a Labour in house magazine as it is possible to buy.

https://www.newstatesman.com/science...ow-can-we-stop

This isn't about the conservative party, this is about whether the UK is as racist as some of the press in the last 48 hours would have you believe.

As a side note, the reports suggest several of the trolls used the hashtag #forzaintalia, so at least some of the posters may, or probably, have been Italian supporters trolling their losing opponents - and racism abuse at Italian matches has long been far worse in Italy than the UK.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 16:02
  #8550 (permalink)  
 
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OMG, I can't believe you're trying to bash the Italians for this too. Just deal with the undeniable fact there are racists on your island too.

We won. In London. After hearing your supporters booing every single national hymn they listened to. After the "it's coming home" mantra. After days of pure English cockiness. We really can't give a flying **** on how to insult your white/yellow/red/blue/black players atm.

PS: check your hashtag, it makes no sense in Italian
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 16:07
  #8551 (permalink)  
 
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It could be argued that our very definition/understanding of the term racist is, in fact, one sided. I could be argued that both the MOBO (Music of Black Origin) Awards and the Association of Black Police Officers are, by their very definition, racist organisations and should therefore be outlawed. I would also suggest that "quotas" are also, by definition, racist as they give priority to one set of people over another based on sex, race, colour and/or religion and should therefore be abolished.

It seems to me we are all to quick to brand each other ***ist these days and it very quickly becomes "UK is endemically ***ist" which I don't believe for one second.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 16:16
  #8552 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC. If you can have listen to the remarks of the Head of MI5 just published on the 5 o'clock bulletin on R4.
Quick summary, while foreign actors had been a problem in the past, he does not see them as an issue in respect of the current racism issue. Rather it is right wing groups.

Last edited by Ninthace; 14th Jul 2021 at 16:41.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 16:38
  #8553 (permalink)  
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Theholdingpoint,

PS: check your hashtag, it makes no sense in Italian
Tell those using it.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...football-stars

It seems pretty popular - a couple of unrelated innocuous tweets to avoid any slurs, but showing the hashtag.


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Old 14th Jul 2021, 17:56
  #8554 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Theholdingpoint,



Tell those using it.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...football-stars

It seems pretty popular - a couple of unrelated innocuous tweets to avoid any slurs, but showing the hashtag.

https://twitter.com/max_prynx/status...138022401?s=20

https://twitter.com/_LVerducci/statu...471738887?s=20
Recheck your spelling, you're wrong.

I also note you conveniently left out "some of the tweets are foreign and some are from the UK", "supposedly" and the fact that "Italian trolls" is never mentioned, it just says "foreign"...but don't worry, it's the usual BS written in your posts, we're used to it.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 17:57
  #8555 (permalink)  
 
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From the Centre for Countering Digital Hate.
As the government ramps up its rhetoric on social media safety in response to the racist abuse hurled at Rashford, Saka, and Sancho after the Euros final, new data from both the Centre for Countering Digital Hate and the Kick It Out equality campaign show that whilst the level of abuse has increased in the past year, the majority of it is coming from overseas. A point which Gareth Southgate also
on Monday.


Sanjay Bhandari, chairman of Kick It Out, revealed that roughly 70% of all abuse over the past two seasons came from foreign accounts, adding:
““These are not football fans…They are people who have never been inside an English football ground.”
The Centre for Countering Digital Hate, meanwhile, found 105 Instagram accounts had directed abuse towards England players after the final. BBC Newsnight’s investigation revealed the locations of 64 of those accounts, of which only 5 came from the UK. Clearly this is still a problem, yet it’s worth bearing in mind where most of the abuse originates when trying to legislate against it…
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 18:08
  #8556 (permalink)  
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I also note you conveniently left out "some of the tweets are foreign and some are from the UK"
As quoted in my original link in post #8539, and cited in the post above, out if the 64 accounts investigated by the BBC just 5 originated from within the UK.

That is not to say that such racism is not found in the UK, but the Internet is worldwide, and the UK has a reputation for being less, not more, racist than many others.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 18:14
  #8557 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
As quoted in my original link in post #8539, and cited in the post above, out if the 64 accounts investigated by the BBC just 5 originated from within the UK.

That is not to say that such racism is not found in the UK, but the Internet is worldwide, and the UK has a reputation for being less, not more, racist than many others.
You mean post #8539 statistics, which are referred to the last two years and not related to Euro 2020/1? Or did you mean post #8551 where you wrote "the reports suggest several of the trolls used the hashtag #forzaintalia, so at least some of the posters may, or probably, have been Italian supporters" citing a wrong hashtag and translating "foreign" into "Italians"?

Have you ever heard the term VPN?
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 18:41
  #8558 (permalink)  
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Yes, but unless their are an awful lot of technically savvy racists in the U.K. the probability is that the origins noted are accurate. My apologies for my spelling, but it does suggest that at least some of the goading was coming from victorious fans - or as I originally suggested perhaps there are others with an interest in stoking passions and flames.
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Old 14th Jul 2021, 18:51
  #8559 (permalink)  
 
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I wish I could claim credit for this, but it says it all:

The world is not divided by race, colour, gender or sexual orientation.

The world is divided into wise people and fools.

And fools divide themselves by race, colour, gender or sexual orientation.


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Old 14th Jul 2021, 18:54
  #8560 (permalink)  
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An article from Reuters which addresses the issue.

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sp...te-2021-07-13/

English football faces up to global nature of online hate

And going back to March.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sp...-overseas.html
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