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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 26th Oct 2020, 02:55
  #4761 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by old,not bold View Post
Like many, I read the huge coverage in the Sunday Times today with horror at the allegations of a hidden Covid 19 triage tool handed down to hospitals, even ambulance staff, that denied care to various categories; "over 80" being a one-way ticket to a grave was the one that concerned me most
I gather this is "fake news" but it does raise an interesting moral dilemma.

The notion of a person's worth being assessed as a function of age is repugnant. However, being 80+, I fully appreciate that there must come a point where the cost to others (family or state) of my continued maintenance no longer is reasonable. However, I should prefer not to be abandoned on a trolley in a corridor, if you don't mind.

And having regard to the comments made of my being oblivious of the shortcomings of Boris's character, in defence I have to claim that when Major and Blair were doing their thing and Boris was mayor, I was living abroad and thus was insulated from the horror of having to witness first hand the debasement of my country. It was bad enough viewing this with the detachment of geography.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 07:59
  #4762 (permalink)  
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The fine art of political sycophancy ......or....." how to lick Boris's backside whilst not pissing off your constituents too much if you want to keep your seat at the next GE "

Enter.... " The Fatuous Five "...with a special mention for the one who tried to blame Labour....as profiled in today's Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...usal-to-u-turn







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Old 26th Oct 2020, 09:50
  #4763 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gipsy Queen View Post
I gather this is "fake news" but it does raise an interesting moral dilemma.

The notion of a person's worth being assessed as a function of age is repugnant. However, being 80+, I fully appreciate that there must come a point where the cost to others (family or state) of my continued maintenance no longer is reasonable. However, I should prefer not to be abandoned on a trolley in a corridor, if you don't mind.

And having regard to the comments made of my being oblivious of the shortcomings of Boris's character, in defence I have to claim that when Major and Blair were doing their thing and Boris was mayor, I was living abroad and thus was insulated from the horror of having to witness first hand the debasement of my country. It was bad enough viewing this with the detachment of geography.
Whatever your grouse with Major and Blair, and I accept that many did have, I would nevertheless argue that both of those as PM's carried themselves with considerably more dignity and gravitas that the current occupant de Pfeffel does. Furthermore, and possibly more importantly Britain retained some degree of international status and kudos until Dave's decision to put party before country. Even the most enthusiastic Brexiteer surely wouldn't still believe deep within themselves that the benefits of blue passports and catching fish we cannot sell is justification for the coming mayhem and isolation as well as queuing in line at airports with all manner of third world residents. ( TiC before I'm called a racialist).
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 11:08
  #4764 (permalink)  
 
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Actually I was musing on reality rather than fantasy.
Really? ... so how do you explain the difference between individual voter choices and numbers and allegiances of 'elected' MPs? You have, of course, looked at the statistics, since they are the reality?

It's very easy to play the "corrupt electoral voting system" card, however it is not so long ago that the aforesaid "corrupt electoral voting system" returned a Labour government for a decade or more.
So, given that you agree that the system is corrupt, you feel that corruptly electing a Government is acceptable as long as it's Tory? My problem with that is that I naively expect that my individual vote should have as much value as anyone else, and should not be dependent on the constituency boundaries imposed by an unelected body, which can, and does, modify outcomes by tens of seats.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 13:06
  #4765 (permalink)  
 
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I do not agree that the system is corrupt - "Not fit for purpose" would be my take on the situation.

I doubt you find anyone to declare that the reason for your vote being devalued relates to corruption. However, I can remember thinking when the last Labour government came to power - now they are going to move the boundaries to suit their agenda - and so they did.

How can they do that you say - well it's because they were in the driving seat. Now the Tories are in the driving seat and they want to swing the balance back in their favour.

I get your drift regarding unelected bodies - who wouldn't - but they are merely enacting the will of whomever is in the driving seat.

There is no perfect solution as far as I can see.

IG

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Old 26th Oct 2020, 13:18
  #4766 (permalink)  
 
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It's not true that Labour altered them. The Boundaries Commission is an independent body required by law to review the boundaries every five years. The reason for this is solely demographic changes that may skew the proportions. We don't want that do we? FPTP is so fair.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 13:38
  #4767 (permalink)  
 
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Just watched BoJo being interviewed about feeding children during the holiday period.

Perhaps it is just me, but evertytime I watch him being interviwed or being questioned in Parliament, all I here is 'Please sir. the dog eat my homework' or 'It wasn't me it was another boy'.

Last edited by Grayfly; 26th Oct 2020 at 16:10.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 13:53
  #4768 (permalink)  
 
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Grayfly
That made me cover the laptop in crumbs Every time I have seen him its is the "erms "and pregnant pauses (no pun intended re pregnancy) that get me. It is very noticeable when compared with other leaders from other countries, who seem to be more coherent ,even when speaking in English which is not their native tong, then de Pfeffelan .
Cheers
Mr Mac
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 14:57
  #4769 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
Just watched BoJo being interviewed about feeding children during the holidya period.

Perhaps it is just me, but evertytime I watch him being interviwed or being questioned in Parliament, all I here is 'Please sir. the dog eat my homework' or 'It wasn't me it was another boy'.
To add to the above...taken from the BBC report....Boris Johnson has defended his refusal to extend free school meals for children in England over the half-term holiday, saying he was "very proud" of the government's support so far.

"I totally understand the issue of holiday hunger," he said. "The debate is, how do you deal with it."

He said the government will "do everything in our power to make sure that no kid, no child goes hungry".

It would be fascinating to learn what Boris's experiences are with what he terms "holiday hunger " ...we can only muse as to what deprivations he has endured throughout his life in this respect ......followed by another Boris "classic ", the bit about the debate and how to deal with it.......erm, how about...... subsidise the meals bonehead ! ( please note, I have used bone to preface head rather than a well known male name in case any remaining Boris supporters have a fit of the vapours ) ..oh, and it's not the Gov't who will do "everything in our power to make sure that no kid or child goes hungry "......that's being done...by ordinary working people !.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 26th Oct 2020 at 18:10.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 15:13
  #4770 (permalink)  
 
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'From the Collins Dictionary - 'corrupt' -1. adjective Someone who is corrupt behaves in a way that is morally wrong, especially by doing dishonest or illegal things in return for money or power.
or Merriam-Webster - adj, - adulterated or debased by change from an original or correct condition
Why on earth do respondents to this complaint instantly assume that it is a Party political consideration? All the present major Parties ignore the issue. The overriding point and purpose of PR is to demolish the self-seeking cabals of the Party system and allow the electorate to elect citizens with demonstrable talents rather than sycophantic devotees of established power groups. Of course it won't happen, of course it's 'not fit for purpose' - the prime example of 'self-inflicted injury' but. like potential contestants for the Darwin Award, the unthinking faihful meekly accept being shafted.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 15:42
  #4771 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Arthur Bellcrank View Post
... and observing how the Labour controlled Wales and the SNP controlled Scotland are dealing with covid I can't see that he is any worse.
Oh please, maybe you could let us know what metric you're using?

Yesterdays figures alone!!

Date 25/10/2020.... daily...... total
England ..................137 ......39766
Northern Ireland .......8......... 653
Scotland ..................1......... 2700
Wales ......................5......... 1777

Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK: Deaths
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 16:38
  #4772 (permalink)  
 
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England has a much higher number of people living in high density cities than Wales or Scotland, if you took the number of covid deaths in the central belt of Scotland and compared them to England there would be very little difference. At least in England the Government is attempting to prevent a collapse of the economy, Scotland and Wales are oblivious to this as they just expect the "UK" to bail them out when the results of their decisions create economic wastelands.
But anything to have a pop at Boris.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 16:51
  #4773 (permalink)  
 
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OilCan

Look at the deaths/100,000 population:

England 89.4
Northern Ireland 48.2
Scotland 78.7
Wales 83.8

Where NI stands out as being hugely different to the other 3.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 17:11
  #4774 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
OilCan



Where NI stands out as being hugely different to the other 3.
Do they have a different track and trace system? I can't easily find any stats on that.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 17:15
  #4775 (permalink)  
 
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Grayfly they did launch the Covid track and trace app first

Strangely enough the NI cases/100,000 is significantly the worst in the UK (scroll to the bottom)

Country No of Cases Cases/100,000
England 740,262 1,315.2
Northern Ireland 34,105 1,801
Scotland 56,752 1,038.8
Wales 42,681 1,353.7

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Old 26th Oct 2020, 18:43
  #4776 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
OilCan

Look at the deaths/100,000 population:

England 89.4
Northern Ireland 48.2
Scotland 78.7
Wales 83.8

Where NI stands out as being hugely different to the other 3.
Completely agree that /100000 is a better comparison but I can't agree your figures.

Using the gov web site I referenced I get the following;

England ..71.04 (39766 deaths/population 55.98m)
Scotland .49.54 (2700 deaths/population 5.45m)
Wales .....56.59 (1777 deaths/population 3.14m)
NI ..........34.5 (653 deaths/population 1.89m)

Uk total 67.55 (44896 deaths/population 66.46m)
• Europe: coronavirus deaths per 100,000 by country | Statista

Last edited by OilCan; 26th Oct 2020 at 19:13.
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 19:28
  #4777 (permalink)  
 
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Just to lighten the mood. MPs of all persuasions have a lot of unjustified and nasty abuse to put up with, but the Tory MP for Birmingham Northfield Gary Sambrook seems remarkably thin skinned if this graffiti is what upsets him!



As you can imagine the Twitterati are having a field day, with “Gary Sambrook” and “Big Dinners” trending mightily! Having never seen Mr Sambrook eat I can’t vouch for the size of his dinner.....
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 19:41
  #4778 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
Just watched BoJo being interviewed about feeding children during the holiday period.

Perhaps it is just me, but evertytime I watch him being interviwed or being questioned in Parliament, all I here is 'Please sir. the dog eat my homework' or 'It wasn't me it was another boy'.
I recall hearing Jeremy Vine telling the below linked story some time ago and thinking, Mssr, Johnson isn't someone with a Plan B in his pocket for emergencies, Plan B is his Plan A, because he hasn't prepared for the task at hand.

Just as Grafly says, I very much suspect that the young Master Johnson discovered at an early age that he could dodge the consequences of his actions (or lack of) by being the buffoon ... "Oh Boris, you've done it again!"

https://reaction.life/jeremy-vine-my-boris-story/

JAS
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Old 26th Oct 2020, 19:47
  #4779 (permalink)  
 
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OilCan, I actually used the numbers off the website you posted the link to.

Scroll to the bottom and look for:

Deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate by area

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Old 26th Oct 2020, 20:54
  #4780 (permalink)  
 
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Wow, you're right, but the adjacent table for;

Deaths within 28 days of positive test by area

corresponds almost exactly with my figures!!

When is a COVID death not a COVID death??

The 28 day figure appears to be more frequently used.

As a further thought, if we want to use the higher death figure of 58100 instead of the 28 day figure of 44900 then that would raise us from 12th to 5th in the world table!!
Coronavirus Update (Live): 43,635,927 Cases and 1,162,628 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

Last edited by OilCan; 26th Oct 2020 at 21:06. Reason: added
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