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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 30th Jun 2020, 15:05
  #3881 (permalink)  
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Current about 75% male. No BAME as of 2017....

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans....463.h&p=11377

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/pr...richard-heaton


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Old 30th Jun 2020, 15:20
  #3882 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post

That matches my experience. Very sad to see that, in the ten years since I retired, things don't seem to have improved. Much as I have a very healthy mistrust of Dominic Cummings, I think he's right about the core of the Civil Service being long overdue for reform. However, the one thing the Civil Service excels at is resistance to change. It's so deeply engrained that I'm not convinced that even a master disruptor like Cummings can change it.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 15:58
  #3883 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Current about 75% male. No BAME as of 2017....
Wonder how that compares with other major British organisations?
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 16:28
  #3884 (permalink)  
 
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The link provided by ORAC educated me! The definition of "permanent" is apparently nothing like the way i always thought of it.
"Permanent Secretaries are appointed on the basis of a 5 year fixed tenure". Well, I never !
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 07:15
  #3885 (permalink)  
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Hong Kong

From POLITICO:

DRIVING THE DAY

DEMOCRACY CRUSHED: Dominic Raab will be in the Commons at lunchtime to deliver a formal U.K. response after China’s sweeping Hong Kong security laws came into force last night. The foreign secretary will make a statement to MPs at 12.30 p.m. setting out the government’s “grave concern” at Beijing’s latest crackdown on democratic rights in Hong Kong. FCO staff have been working through the night to assess the full implications of the laws published yesterday evening, and Raab is under pressure to set out a suitably forthright response. If he does so today you can expect to see MPs from all sides of the House pile in behind the foreign secretary, at what feels like a seismic moment for Sino-British relations.

All eyes on Hong Kong: Beijing’s new laws were brought into force last night ahead of today’s traditional pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong, which have taken place on July 1 each year since 2003. Police last month announced they were banning the protest for the first time, citing outbreaks of violence at previous demonstrations and concern over the spread of the coronavirus. It’s unclear this morning whether demonstrators will still press ahead, or whether the draconian new laws and reports of thousands of police flooding into protest areas will be enough to head off clashes. “We march every year … and we will keep on marching,” defiant pro-democracy activist Leung Kwok-hung told Reuters last night. Others said the risk of reprisals would be too severe.

What it means on the ground: Beijing will establish a new security office in Hong Kong, the BBC reports, with its own law enforcement personnel, neither of which would come under the local authority’s jurisdiction. They will crack down on anyone deemed guilty of vaguely defined new crimes of secession, subversion, terrorism or collusion with foreign forces, with punishments ranging from three years to life in prison. Inciting “hatred” of China’s central government or Hong Kong’s regional government is now a criminal offense. Hong Kong’s chief executive can appoint judges in “national security” cases, and the justice secretary can exclude juries from taking part. There’s much, much more of this — full explainer here from the Hong Kong Free Press.

Running scared: The new laws are having an understandable and instant impact on many of those involved in the recent protests against Beijing’s increasingly authoritarian grip. “Fearing repercussions, political activists are resigning their posts,” the BBC’s China correspondent John Sudworth reports. “One pro-democracy protester, who asked to remain anonymous, told me that ordinary people are now deleting posts on social media. Many people are just stopping talking about politics, and stopping talking about freedom and democracy because they want to save their own lives … One contact of mine, a lawyer and human rights activist, sent me a message shortly after the law was passed. Please delete everything on this chat, he wrote.”

UK response: Raab told MPs yesterday he feared the new laws are a “violation” of the 1984 international treaty between Britain and China, and now they’ve been published he is likely to confirm as much today. A promise of new visa rights for up to 2.9 million Hong Kong residents eligible for British National (Overseas) passports will now be brought forward by the foreign secretary, along with threats to use new human rights laws to sanction Chinese officials deemed responsible for abuses. Raab will also come under sustained pressure from his own backbench MPs to confirm a far tougher line on Huawei, as ministers prepare to U-turn on plans to grant the Chinese tech giant access to Britain’s new 5G comms network......
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:18
  #3886 (permalink)  
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Both PM, leader of the Opposition, Foreign Secretary and Shadow Foreign Secretary condemn China’s action over Hong Kong on the floor of the House.

The Foreign Secretary announced that the plans to allow Hong Kong nations holding BN(O) passports to receive U.K. visas and eventual citizenship have been activated. The shadow Foreign Secretary approved and asked that no financial or other impediments be placed in the way of those applying.

The Foreign Secretary. agreed and stated that no limit on the number of applicants would be applied.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:31
  #3887 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Both PM, leader of the Opposition, Foreign Secretary and Shadow Foreign Secretary condemn China’s action over Hong Kong on the floor of the House.

The Foreign Secretary announced that the plans to allow Hong Kong nations holding BN(O) passports to receive U.K. visas and eventual citizenship have been activated. The shadow Foreign Secretary approved and asked that no financial or other impediments be placed in the way of those applying.

The Foreign Secretary. agreed and stated that no limit on the number of applicants would be applied.
So we can expect a re-run of the the influxes from Kenya and Uganda last century? That's going to go down really well with the people who voted Brexit because of high immigration. More people taking "British jobs" that people believe should be for "British people".
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:35
  #3888 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
So we can expect a re-run of the the influxes from Kenya and Uganda last century? That's going to go down really well with the people who voted Brexit because of high immigration. More people taking "British jobs" that people believe should be for "British people".
Except these are “British” people. They already hold British National (overseas) status. So where’s the problem?
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:43
  #3889 (permalink)  
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I think you will find the majority of voters, including those who voted for Brexit, approve, disproving the “Little Britain” sneer reflected above.

In so far as the Conservative party is concerned, 85% approve of the government position.




There are 300,000 BN(O) passport holders, and up to 3m eligible to apply. However many would stay put, others already have made plans and have relatives in Canada, Australia etc and Taiwan is offering a home to any who wish to go there.

There were a total f 60,000 Ugandan Asians expelled by Amin, of whom 27,000 came to the UK.

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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:45
  #3890 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
Except these are “British” people. They already hold British National (overseas) status. So where’s the problem?
If I recall correctly the Ugandan Asians did too. That however will make little difference to people who will just see migrants taking their jobs. The fact that many of them wouldn't take the jobs that were allegedly being taken is neither here nor there.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:46
  #3891 (permalink)  
 
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Highflyer40
I will let you explain that in Scunthorpe , Redcar etc. I am old enough to remember the influxes from East Africa and I do not think they were actually welcomed with open arms. BJ maybe banking on the fact that they are further away, and may not wish to leave the country of their ancestors to live on an island of the edge of Europe.
Cheers
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:47
  #3892 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
If I recall correctly the Ugandan Asians did too. That however will make little difference to people who will just see migrants taking their jobs. The fact that many of them wouldn't take the jobs that were allegedly being taken is neither here nor there.
Can we just send the ones don’t approve to Hong Kong as a fair swap then? Farther we can get them away the better. Might make their flights to Benidorm more expensive though.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:48
  #3893 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
I think you will find the majority of voters, including those who voted for Brexit, approve, disproving the “Little Britain” sneer reflected above.

In so far as the Conservative party is concerned, 85% approve of the government position.


If those figures relate to just the Conservative Party, they may not chime quite so positively in the former "red wall" constituencies, who despite being long terms Labour voters, may not necessarily hold such open minded views as either the Labour party, nor Tory party members.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:51
  #3894 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
Highflyer40
I will let you explain that in Scunthorpe , Redcar etc. I am old enough to remember the influxes from East Africa and I do not think they were actually welcomed with open arms. BJ maybe banking on the fact that they are further away, and may not wish to leave the country of their ancestors to live on an island of the edge of Europe.
Cheers
Mr Mac
Mr Mac

The populations of the North Nottinghamshire mining towns and villages were similarly resistant, Ashfields, for one actually refusing to take any Ugandan migrants / refugees.

Cheers, ATN
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 12:53
  #3895 (permalink)  
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ATNotts,

Latest poll at the end of May showed 42% for the government positions, 24% against.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/s.../05/29/9742c/3
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 13:03
  #3896 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
ATNotts,

Latest poll at the end of May showed 42% for the government positions, 24% against.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/s.../05/29/9742c/3
You could be reasonably certain that if someone high profile (a Farage type figure) made claims that 3 or so million migrants from China may "flood" the UK opinions may change quite rapidly. It worked very effectively in the Brexit campaign, when the country concerned was Turkey.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 13:21
  #3897 (permalink)  
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https://labourlist.org/2020/07/labou...-in-hong-kong/

Labour welcomes citizenship offer to British nationals in Hong Kong

Last edited by ORAC; 1st Jul 2020 at 13:46.
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 15:33
  #3898 (permalink)  
 
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Orac
I think you are missing the point that myself and ATN are saying. All parties may believe in the right of these Hong Kong residents to come here, and indeed believe it very strongly, but on the street that liberal view is definitely not held widely in the areas we are talking about. I would recommend a trip north of the Trent at sometime to any ex mining or steel area, it may prove to be an education. The worst thing about it is that this also appears to be getting worse, with a rise in extreme views in these areas, left and right.

Kind regards
Mr Mac
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Old 1st Jul 2020, 16:58
  #3899 (permalink)  
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I believe you are wrong Mr Mac, I think the people are better than that.

p.s. Your memory is also in error on the Brexit thread - Cameron didn’t offer a referendum because of the Tory rebels - he was instead looking over his shoulder at the UKIP party and its polling figures, which he had to kill off before another election....

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Old 1st Jul 2020, 17:36
  #3900 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
I believe you are wrong Mr Mac, I think the people are better than that.

p.s. Your memory is also in error on the Brexit thread - Cameron didn’t offer a referendum because of the Tory rebels - he was instead looking over his shoulder at the UKIP party and its polling figures, which he had to kill off before another election....
Well Migration Watch are already expressing their displeasure at the "open door" policy - ref BBC Radio 4 PM Programme interview this evening.

I would actually contend that Cameron was at least as much concerned with uniting the Tory party as he was about UKIP when deciding to go for the Brexit referendum - memory failure there I might suggest!
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