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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 24th May 2020, 20:44
  #3121 (permalink)  
 
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If DC's behaviour means that it will mean that the Police will make lockdown impossible to enforce - as mentioned in an article in today's Daily Telegraph - the consequences of his actions risk putting the lives of many innocent people in danger and may well encourage the less-responsible members of UK society to do the same. It seems unfair and unconstitutional that the Prime Minister can just let him off the hook by banal hot air emissions, when his actions are an incitement to disobey the laws of the land.
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Old 24th May 2020, 20:53
  #3122 (permalink)  
 
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DC will, luckily for him, probably get off the hook because coincidentally or not, Boris is giving all the indications that the lockdown will be further eased by 1 June. I am expecting we will go down to Level 3. Therefore, DC’s March indiscretions will become diluted by the relaxing of the situation.

Had this come out at the beginning of April or if we were still on high alert with the prospect of a tighter lockdown, there would be more questions asked.
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Old 24th May 2020, 21:04
  #3123 (permalink)  
 
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Smile

I predicted in this very forum that BoJo would not last to the end of 2020. The basis for this assertion was that as his incompetence became more and more apparent and his Brexit negotiations went from bad to worse people would eventually understand that BoJo is a shallow, woof-woof, Old Etonian with no economic skills, no negotiating skills and a very tenuous grasp on truth and honesty.

I did not predict a pandemic, but that has simply shone the spotlight on BoJo's failings and brought forward his demise. Now this affair with Cummings is another demonstration of BoJo's lack of any leadership skill. His problem is that without Cummings holding up the puppet, the puppet collapses. And the puppet knows it. The poor sod is between a rock and a hard place. If he keeps Cummings he's done for, and if he sacks him he's done for.

Oh dear. Poor old BoJo. How sad.
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Old 24th May 2020, 21:31
  #3124 (permalink)  
 
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It is very frustrating to see that a pandemic is finaly getting more positive results than official Political Oppositions to the Johnsons, Trumps, Netanayhus, Bolsonaros, Orbans, Putins, Borissovs, Xi Jinpings etc... of this world. Hopefully, they will, all of them, fall on their sword (metaphorically speaking) and we will be able to continue with the many useless and mediocre but more socialy minded and democratic politicians to build a better world. It smells like the end of an era and this world shock is an opportunity we must all try to transform into a fairer and just Society... By the way, may be Johnson cannot sack Cummings because he knows in which drawer of which cabinet is the "Russian Interference in General Elections Report"? Any news? This will be the next big scandal. My inbox pings so many times per hour with petitions, mails to MPs, demands for financial support for good causes that I'll soon have to employ a collaborator (that I will furlough of course!) to cope with them.

Last edited by alicopter; 24th May 2020 at 22:08.
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Old 24th May 2020, 21:55
  #3125 (permalink)  
 
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Wasn't it ironic that, prior to Johnson being pushed into delivering today's drivel delivery, it was due to have been delivered by Robert Jenrick.? Yes. That Jenrick who caused a controversy with his own disregard for the Covid "don't go anywhere" rules.
I am listening to a Tory MP (Huw Merriman, I believe) on the radio just now explaining how Cummings didn't break any rules, everything he did was within the rules. It seems it is all down to how one interprets the rules. Grand! Now that is clear, I am probably going to interpret the rules in my way tomorrow. After all, the weather is set fair and there's a few "different" flights due in at Heathrow, stuff that never comes here in normal times.
Meanwhile, why is it that Cummings causes a nation wide uproar and nobody in government wants to "make a fuss" or have an inquiry. A civil servant makes a tweet, critical of either the government or a certain cohort of civil servants and an inquiry has apparently been launched already?
The lying department seems to be having technical difficulties today. The number of people tested in the previous 24 hours is "Unavailable". Under Pillar 1, they say they tested 20,301. Pillar 2 (kits sent out) was "Unavailable". Yet the figures show total tests for yesterday was 110,401.
How did they figure that out?
The figures for the previous day were even worse. Under Pillar 1, "Unavailable". Under Pillar 2 "Unavailable". Total "Unavailable". Yet they still claimed to have carried out 116,585!
Finally, back to Cummings. First, if his prime concern was the welfare of his child was the driver that caused him to go on safari up the M1, why could he not have used the various services available to all residents in London (and throughout other local authorities)? I don't know but I could take a guess. That would have involved social services. Heaven forfend! That sort of thing is for the likes of the residents of tower blocks, sink estates etc.
Second, a trip such as this must have had at least an hour or two planning. I would imagine being in the senior position he holds in Downing St., he would let somebody know that he won't be in work tomorrow and, in the words of Capt Oates, "I may be some time". When he didn't show up for work the following day, did nobody at Downing St phone him to ask where he was?. Alternatively, if his colleagues in Downing St. knew he was symptomatic with Covid-19, did they think they ought to nip round to his gaff to see if he had died?
Capt K: No need for you to bother with an answer/comment unless you feel you could manage a civil comment. (Maybe begin with "I am sorry for calling you 'rabid'")
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Old 24th May 2020, 22:30
  #3126 (permalink)  
 
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Oh dear!

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Old 24th May 2020, 22:50
  #3127 (permalink)  
 
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According to Sky News, the man who saw Cummings at Barnards Castle has now made a formal complaint to police, and the car number matches Cummings's Range Rover

https://news.sky.com/story/witness-i...urham-11993781
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Old 25th May 2020, 05:37
  #3128 (permalink)  
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A complaint may have been made, but nothing illegal took place. That does not, of course, does not mean the police will do nothing - as many high; profile people such as Cliff Richard have found to their cost.....

https://www.lexology.com/library/det...8-390a257a7efc
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Old 25th May 2020, 06:06
  #3129 (permalink)  
 
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Orac
Two other figures who broke the guidelines re travel have lost their jobs during this pandemic, why should not Mr Cummings ? As for BJ defence yesterday (which I have just seen) I am getting very tired of watching him not answer questions, and feel for the reporters who must also get fed up asking them of him. It will not take long given the amount of CCTV there is in the UK for Mr Cummings movement's to be tracked ,and we will then have the evidence, if it is allowed to be published, and that is a big IF in the new UK..

Kind regards
Mr Mac
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Old 25th May 2020, 06:20
  #3130 (permalink)  
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I recall that Stephen Kinnock drove 150 miles on March 28th to sit in the garden with his father to celebrate his birthday. On 9th April Keir Starmer appointed him as a minister in the Shadow Cabinet....

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/03/29/cen...ential-travel/

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Stephen_Kinnock

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...-over-cummings


What’s more disturbing: Cummings’ behaviour - or the mob pursuing him?

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Old 25th May 2020, 06:25
  #3131 (permalink)  
 
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Orac
Can you answer the question I asked, as to why Mr Cummings is different to the other two individuals who lost their jobs rather than discussing an opposition ministers actions. Deflection is not an answer.

Kind regards
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Old 25th May 2020, 06:38
  #3132 (permalink)  
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Why?

Because I consider the circumstances to be different. I regard parents relocating to another safe isolating environment to ensure family care is nearby for an autistic 4 year old in case their Covid becomes debilitating as different to those of a man having trysts with his married mistress or a woman visiting her holiday home.

Or a Labour MP paying a visit to his father on his birthday......
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Old 25th May 2020, 06:44
  #3133 (permalink)  
 
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I just read the Kinnock article and must have missed the 150 miles part of it. Where was that? Meanwhile, be aware that that the skwawkbox link comes with a warning of a Cross Script warning (poss DDS attack). During loading of the page, my Radio 4 link went suspiciously silent and my browser temporarily froze, until my browser had dealt with the attack. Beware of the link!
Kinnock is a minister in the Shadow Cabinet?
Robert Jenrick is a minister in the Government's "Real" cabinet.
Meanwhile, back to Cummings and his "Round the North East Tour".
How's this for a potential conspiracy to start off the day?
On April 14th, Glaxo Smith Kline signed a deal with Sanofi to produce/develop a probably highly lucrative vaccine.
On April 12th, Cummings was in Barnard Castle.
GSK has a presence in Barnard Castle.
Coincidence? Who knows? Reaad the link to that news here:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
(I bet that link will cause a few splutters in the morning coffee. Still, if what Mr Murray says has any truth, it may well be food for thought)
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Old 25th May 2020, 07:06
  #3134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Why?

Because I consider the circumstances to be different. I regard parents relocating to another safe isolating environment to ensure family care is nearby for an autistic 4 year old in case their Covid becomes debilitating as different to those of a man having trysts with his married mistress or a woman visiting her holiday home.

Or a Labour MP paying a visit to his father on his birthday......

I assume that you believe that it was entirely right and proper for two people, known to be infected, and at least one known to be infective, to drive ~250 miles, with a small child in the car, from one end of the country to the other, then, spraying the virus everywhere they went?

The actions of this man and his wife weren't just careless, they amount to reckless endangerment of others. There may be weasel words in law that mean it could, possibly, be interpreted as if he didn't actually break the letter of it by his gross stupidity, but it seems very clear that he acted with total disregard for the safety of anyone except himself and immediate family. Johnson seems to believe that's acceptable, and that it's perfectly OK to potentially infect others as long as all you're doing is looking after family.

Many of us haven't been able to look after family for many weeks now, and many have not even been able to be with them when they died, because of what we believed to be the lockdown rules. Clearly it now seems as if we all should have read and understood the law more carefully, because all along these things have been perfectly OK to do. Is it any wonder people are extremely angry at the rules being twisted in this way?
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Old 25th May 2020, 07:14
  #3135 (permalink)  
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The 150 miles. He drove from his constituency in Aberavon in Wales to his father’s home in London.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...-told-18002953


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Old 25th May 2020, 07:21
  #3136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
The 150 miles. He drove from his constituency in Aberavon in Wales to his father’s home in London.
Nice try at deflection, but as you very well know, the massive difference here is that Kinnock didn't knowingly travel with someone infected and infective, potentially spreading disease as he went, did he?

Cummings knowingly chose to travel a much greater distance, spreading disease as he went, as he knew full well that they were infective. There's a very big difference, as Cummings actions were more akin to driving with a loaded weapon in his car, randomly discharging it as he went, with absolutely zero regard for the lives of anyone else.
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Old 25th May 2020, 07:21
  #3137 (permalink)  
 
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Yes yes we get it ORAC, Mr Kinnock shouldn't have done the 150 mile journey, but this isn't a case of two wrongs making a right..they were both in the wrong...

VP959

I assume that you believe that it was entirely right and proper for two people, known to be infected, and at least one known to be infective, to drive ~250 miles, with a small child in the car, from one end of the country to the other, then, spraying the virus everywhere they went?

The actions of this man and his wife weren't just careless, they amount to reckless endangerment of others. There may be weasel words in law that mean it could, possibly, be interpreted as if he didn't actually break the letter of it by his gross stupidity, but it seems very clear that he acted with total disregard for the safety of anyone except himself and immediate family. Johnson seems to believe that's acceptable, and that it's perfectly OK to potentially infect others as long as all you're doing is looking after family.
That's how I see it...the big failing here, and the obvious contravention of the "guidelines", is that despite one of the family being symptomatic the Cummings family left the house in the first place..not the length of the drive.


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Old 25th May 2020, 07:33
  #3138 (permalink)  
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I assume that you believe that it was entirely right and proper for two people, known to be infected, and at least one known to be infective, to drive ~250 miles, with a small child in the car, from one end of the country to the other, then, spraying the virus everywhere they went? The actions of this man and his wife weren't just careless, they amount to reckless endangerment of others.
For someone normally rational that is bordering on hysterical. Please don’t let your distaste for the man distort your view of how this disease is spread.

The family live together, there was no additional risk inside the car than in their home previously. The risk to anyone metres away from someone passing in a car driving down the road At 30-50mph is effectively zero. Assuming they even stopped, using a self-service pump would also provide effectively zero risk if masked and the sanitiser was used.

(p.s. The Range Rover has a 27 gallon tank and does over 30mpg, more than adequate for a round trip without stopping for fuel - and parents hanging children over the side of the road for a pee is not exactly an uncommon sight on the road).

Last edited by ORAC; 25th May 2020 at 07:48.
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Old 25th May 2020, 07:34
  #3139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
So what would JB'ers have done in Cummings position?
I'll tell you what I'd have done. Given that he was travelling north ostensibly to enable a younger relative, not his parents, to assist in the care of his 4 year old, in his position I would have contacted my brother, sister, nephew, niece or whoever and asked them to travel to London to pick up my kid. Though still not strictly allowed, that would have been a darn sight less dangerous / risky to the wider community than packing 3 people into a car (two of whom apparently had, or were suffering symptoms of Covid-19) and drive north. Can you imagine a 4 year old not screaming "I need a wee!" from the car seat at some time during the journey?

If anytime in the future I get stopped and asked what my business is, my response will be "I'm using my instinct", just as Dominic Cummings did. However poorly judged my instinct might be.
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Old 25th May 2020, 07:48
  #3140 (permalink)  
 
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Again, Jenrick comes into it. Wasn't it made clear that he travelled from his home in Gloucestershire (or was it Herefordshire?) to his parents' home in Shropshire and back and thence to London?
Anyway, re Cummings: I thought I would have a look at the law Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions (England) Act 2020.
Section 6 covers Restrictions on movement and begins with:
6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.
Reasonable excuses are then listed in the subsequent paragraphs and nowhere do those paragraphs refer to taking a child anywhere other than children who do not live in the same household as their parents:
"in relation to children who do not live in the same household as their parents, or one of their parents, to continue existing arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and children, and for the purposes of this paragraph, “parent” includes a person who is not a parent of the child, but who has parental responsibility for, or who has care of, the child;"
Declarations given by the likes of Prof Jenny Harries, given at Downing St briefings do not count. Unless there has been another sneaky law giving her the power to make up law on the fly, bypassing parliament!
So, as I read the law, Cummings has been found to be caught "bang to rights" under the Act and should be prosecuted. Just as many hundreds of others have been.
As for Boris; aiding and abetting the commission of an offence?
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