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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 24th May 2020, 11:14
  #3061 (permalink)  
 
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VP959

This list, including some Brexit extremists, such as Bone and Gale included in their ranks, I think spells the end of Cummings' tenure. It's pretty clear that to many Tory MPs Cummings was very useful in getting Brexit done, but is now eminently expendable.

(For the avoidance of doubt I don't consider all Brexiteers "extremists").
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:15
  #3062 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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But, given that it's illegal for even a police officer to look up a registration on the PNC/DVLA without a valid reason (and there have been prosecutions for doing so), the papers can't acknowledge that they know that information
Nobody has to look it up it a database, his car is parked outside his house - and the press was all around it as they waited for him to come out yesterday morning. It wouldn’t have been beyond th3 wit if man to write the registration down and ask the elderly gent up north for the registration he says he checked and has in his search history.



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Old 24th May 2020, 11:16
  #3063 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by papabravowhiskey View Post

Well, this is the kind of commentary that Cummings' antics are now attracting.
That has made my day! I nearly choked on my coffee!

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Old 24th May 2020, 11:20
  #3064 (permalink)  
 
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There's a long and detailed article in today's Times about all the mistakes the government has made in dealing with the pandemic, leading to the UK's worst death rate in Europe.
Who is going to apologise for all these unnecessary deaths?

Only the front page is available without a log-in, but perhaps someone who can paste Times articles would like to paste this one?

Three weeks of dither and delay on coronavirus that cost thousands of british lives
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:28
  #3065 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Nobody has to look it up it a database, his car is parked outside his house - and the press was all around it as they waited for him to come out yesterday morning. It wouldn’t have been beyond th3 wit if man to write the registration down and ask the elderly gent up north for the registration he says he checked and has in his search history.


Is that the ONLY car he has access to? There are probably others on the farm that he could have used.

As I said, this is something that the papers should check, to verify or correct their story. He may be innocent of that part of the story,
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:33
  #3066 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Is that the ONLY car he has access to? There are probably others on the farm that he could have used.
If Mr Lee has a record of the registration, as claimed, then it's probably ten minutes work to sift through some photos and identify whether or not the car was one that Cummings has been seen driving before. If he borrowed a car from his family, then a few phone calls to journos in Durham would almost certainly result in other family car registrations being given. I'm a bit surprised that we've not seen any photos or videos of Cummings out and about though, given the propensity of some to pull out their phone at any and every opportunity and record things.
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:48
  #3067 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
If Mr Lee has a record of the registration, as claimed, then it's probably ten minutes work to sift through some photos and identify whether or not the car was one that Cummings has been seen driving before. If he borrowed a car from his family, then a few phone calls to journos in Durham would almost certainly result in other family car registrations being given. I'm a bit surprised that we've not seen any photos or videos of Cummings out and about though, given the propensity of some to pull out their phone at any and every opportunity and record things.
Yes. And I'll be surprised if other methods haven't been used to trace the registered keeper. If the papers are still pushing the Barnard story they need to be sure of their facts.
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Old 24th May 2020, 11:53
  #3068 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
. But such firm denials would seem to suggest No 10 are sure if their ground.
'Cos government has never ever given 100% support just before bus-chuckin' a liability?

CG

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Old 24th May 2020, 12:08
  #3069 (permalink)  
 
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At 12:46 Cummings arrived at Downing Street. I bet as I post this, he’s being shredded on the carpet.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:13
  #3070 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
At 12:46 Cummings arrived at Downing Street. I bet as I post this, he’s being shredded on the carpet.
Probably one of two things happening. Either he'll be there helping to cook up some story that No 10 will try and spin to justify his drive north, or he'll be briefed on how to resign with the least damage to everyone and, most probably, a promise that he can return at some time in the future.

Mind you, he did say a while ago that he was thinking of moving on from No 10. I dare say that Boris Johnson et al may not much like the idea of Cummings being outside the tent pissing in.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:22
  #3071 (permalink)  
 
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But Cummings is at least taking the heat away from the bigger crisis for Boris - explaining why he held back from imposing a lockdown and thus causing thousands of deaths.
A snippet from the Times article this morning which ORAC has not seen fit to post. I trust this is covered by 'fair use'.

In the UK many people had given up waiting for the government to take action and were already taking matters into their own hands. Firms were encouraging employees to work from home, and suddenly that Saturday’s sporting fixture list was looking threadbare as the leagues cancelled games of their own volition despite the huge losses in revenues.
The government’s strategy was in shreds: ripped apart by its own modelling scientists and looking creepily Darwinian after the unfortunate introduction of the words “herd immunity”. More than 200 scientists and academics signed a letter condemning the delay policy and saying thousands of lives could be saved by introducing stricter social distancing measures immediately.
If a policeman causes an unnecessary death while on duty there is hell to pay. How many deaths can a Prime Minister get away with?
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:34
  #3072 (permalink)  
 
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The whole lockdown thing seems to have unravelled anyway. From what I can see, a lot of people are just going about doing their normal thing now. Traffic has definitely increased substantially and there far more population movement everywhere.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:43
  #3073 (permalink)  
 
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The Sunday Times journalists have enjoyed muck stirring.

I was more taken with their earlier piece, which proved to the journalists involved that if Boris hadn't been on holiday throughout February, lying around in his grace and favour mansion, then gazillions of lives would have been saved.

So if today's article is true, the earlier one must be a bunch of terminological inexactitudes. If Boris wasn't going to do anything mid-March, the allegation that he should have done it all in February doesn't work.

Roll on another fortnight, and the next 10 pager in the Times will prove that Boris and Cummings were in Wuhan when the virus started.

And Cummings was listening to Bat Out of Hell, not Abba.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:45
  #3074 (permalink)  
 
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From the web -
How to find the address of the vehicle owner, by number plate?
If you want to find out the address then the process is the same as above, you will need to fill out form V888 from the DVLA and provide a “just cause” reason.

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Old 24th May 2020, 12:52
  #3075 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BehindBlueEyes View Post
The whole lockdown thing seems to have unravelled anyway. From what I can see, a lot of people are just going about doing their normal thing now. Traffic has definitely increased substantially and there far more population movement everywhere.
It's possible that the increase in traffic has been caused by the return to work that is happening in various sectors and businesses. I have noticed that although businesses are reopening, the amount of cars parked in our local tram park and ride has hardly increased, and buses are still very empty, so it seems likely that many people are heeding advice and steering clear of public transport, and that is going to increase road traffic. The local pinchpoint is currently Clifton Bridge on the A52 in Nottingham, and despite the increase in traffic it's still generally possible to get across without queuing which wasn't the case at the beginning of March.

What I see, now I am out and about working again is generally people are still quite alert to social distancing, and there certainly does seem to have been a noticeable increase in cycling. Of course there are always exceptions, notably teenagers who appear to be congregating freely, and during weekday schooling hours, which very much suggests parents have given up on the whole home schooling idea. Also workmen who seem oblivious to what 2m (even 1m) looks like when working on street works.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:54
  #3076 (permalink)  
 
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Get yourselves a new tee shirt:


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Old 24th May 2020, 12:59
  #3077 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer View Post
The Sunday Times journalists have enjoyed muck stirring.

I was more taken with their earlier piece, which proved to the journalists involved that if Boris hadn't been on holiday throughout February, lying around in his grace and favour mansion, then gazillions of lives would have been saved.

So if today's article is true, the earlier one must be a bunch of terminological inexactitudes. If Boris wasn't going to do anything mid-March, the allegation that he should have done it all in February doesn't work.

Roll on another fortnight, and the next 10 pager in the Times will prove that Boris and Cummings were in Wuhan when the virus started.

And Cummings was listening to Bat Out of Hell, not Abba.
You're right. There is plenty of muck to be raked.

Do you dispute that the lockdown was placed too late, as those 200 scientists and academics said?
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Old 24th May 2020, 13:01
  #3078 (permalink)  
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Sally,

I attempted to post some extracts but even those made such a long post that I had to delete it for fear of being banned.

Much of the blame in the article is heaped upon the CMO/CSO and the advise given by the rest of SAGE and presenting Ferguson and the other modellers as the unsung heroes who saved the day. Not sure how many friends it will make them amongst the other scientific communities.

As well as effectively blaming them it as gets in lots of digs. The one person who seems to come out of the article well, strangely, is Dominic Cummings (apart from zFerguson and the other modellers of course). e.g.

....”Back in London on the day before the Cheltenham festival began, the chief scientist Vallance had been put forward to express the scientific view that mass gatherings were not a big problem. Vallance, who had left a £780,000-a-year job in the pharmaceutical industry a year before to take the job advising ministers, explained that gatherings “actually don’t make much difference”..........

......”Vallance and Whitty explained the staged timing by saying people might tire of such social distancing measures if they were brought in too early and lasted a long time. “If people go too early they become very fatigued. This is going to be a long haul. It is very important we don’t start things in advance of need,” Whitty said......

That morning Vallance went on Radio 4’s
Today programme and dug an even deeper hole for his colleagues by mentioning the phrase the spin doctors did not want the public to hear. The government’s aim, he said, was to suppress the virus but not completely and “to build up some degree of herd immunity” while protecting the vulnerable. Later, on Sky News, he said that herd immunity would require 60% of the population to contract the virus.“........

.......”On Friday, March 20, Dr Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer for England..... advised people to stay two metres apart during walks while standing at a lectern less than a metre from the prime minister.“........

————-


The solution

The days were ticking by quickly. Despite repeated assertions by the government it was following the scientific advice, there was increasing concern among its two university modelling teams that their warnings were not being heeded that the death toll would still be horrendous even if the mitigation measures were introduced.

They took matters into their own hands and, without being commissioned to do so, began crunching the numbers on a lockdown from their campuses in London. The first results were contained in a LSHTM study — co-authored by Edmunds and his colleague Nicholas Davies. This was communicated to the government’s advisory modelling committee on Wednesday, March 11...... The report advised that the death rate could be drastically cut with more severe measures to suppress the virus. It predicted that intermittent periods of intensive lockdown-type measures would prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed.

Ferguson and his team at Imperial drew similar conclusions that week in an equally devastating report. The early results of that work were discussed in Sage that week and provided to the government that weekend...........

These were the problems confronting Johnson when he summoned a meeting of his inner team at 9.15am that Saturday morning. By then it is understood that his most influential adviser Cummings had gone through a “Domoscene conversion” to being a strong advocate of the kind of suppression strategy that would lead to lockdown........

Having backed the government’s earlier strategy, Cummings was said to now be convinced it wouldn’t work and was advocating a lockdown, starting with restricting traffic in and out of London. Military chiefs are said to have been put on notice that their troops might be needed to enforce a lockdown in the capital starting at midnight on Saturday.........
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Old 24th May 2020, 13:09
  #3079 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you ORAC. Your extracts are naturally as selective as mine.
The fact remains that the lockdown was started two weeks too late, after other countries had imposed theirs.

Whether the delay can be blamed on the ones making the decisions, or on the advice given by experts, is something that a future very lengthy and expensive judicial enquiry will no doubt seek to decide. I have always been taught that the blame starts at the top.
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Old 24th May 2020, 13:16
  #3080 (permalink)  
 
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The interesting things about the lockdown decision, seem to be a reluctance by everyone concerned in the decision making process to take such a bold step early, plus a lack of understanding as to how well the public would respond to lockdown rules.

There seems to have been a view that people just wouldn't obey lockdown rules, when it turns out that the vast majority did, and those rules became embedded in our normal way of life remarkably quickly. This was, perhaps, an understandable error. I think many may well have had a view that people just wouldn't respond well to being told to take such drastic action. I was pretty surprised that the response was so good, TBH.

The reluctance to take the bold step of mandating lockdown earlier seems to have been a mix of advisors being reluctant to suggest such a move, perhaps for fear that it might be seen as too extreme at that time, together with an apparent lack of bold leadership. Easy to say now, with hindsight, but had Boris Johnson been prepared to do earlier, what he finally ended up doing a week later, then it seems certain that the outcome would have been significantly better, and we'd probably now be well on the way out of lockdown.

However, if we look back at all those who might possibly have been PM at the start of this year (ignoring the last GE outcome) then there is no one at all, from any party, that seems likely to have been able to do a better job. Had Jeremy Corbyn been able to pull Labour together and win the last election, does anyone really believe that he, with Diane Abbot as his Home Secretary, may have been able to manage this any better? Had Theresa May somehow been able to cling on, then I strongly suspect she would have dithered and delayed for far longer than Boris Johnson did, as dithering and delaying was pretty much her stock in trade.

Much as I'm loathe to admit it, out of all the possibilities that we open to us, as far as leading the country goes, Boris Johnson was, without a doubt, the least worst option.
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