Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III

Old 23rd May 2020, 13:17
  #2981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,293
Capt K's unsurprising attempt to justify Cummings's idiocy is on the same level as informing the Great British Public that Johnson has fathered yet another offspring and/or bought a nice cuddly dog! If your overweening ambition is to be at the forefront of policy making, it is entirely reasonable to expect a level of responsible behaviour - an examplar to all ...Caesar's wife. To try to excuse this as a 'natural human reaction' suggests an expectation of high office ethics to be at the level of back-street car salesmen. Given the capt's other utterances, that may be so.
Cornish Jack is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 13:28
  #2982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 73
Posts: 796
It seems to me that, if Cummings and his madam were as sick as she makes out, it would not have been beyond their wit or means to call the relative who is being dragged into it and ask "Can you take the next train from Darlington, pick up young Gilbert (aka Cummings Jr) and take him up to Durham for a week or two?"
We have all seen reports over the years of people driving when tired killing multiple victims in horrific pile ups. What if Cummings (if he was driving) had passed out during that drive? Why should another innocent family have to pay the price?
KelvinD is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 13:48
  #2983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 349
Capt K you are trying to defend the indefensible, and failing.

Cummings has broken the law and risked spreading the virus to others. He not only travelled when he should not have done, but did so when actually contagious. Others who broke the rule have done the honourable thing and resigned.

However you try to spin it, you can't change the facts. He was wrong.
​​​​​​

Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 23rd May 2020, 14:14
  #2984 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Capt K you are trying to defend the indefensible, and failing.

Cummings has broken the law and risked spreading the virus to others. He not only travelled when he should not have done, but did so when actually contagious. Others who broke the rule have done the honourable thing and resigned.

However you try to spin it, you can't change the facts. He was wrong.
​​​​​​
Not only was he wrong, but he seems to be of the view that he couldn't care less about the rules, or what his actions look like, he was determined to just do what he wanted:

The PM's top aide Dominic Cummings says he did the "right thing" by travelling 260 miles to be near relatives during the coronavirus lockdown - adding that he did not care what it looked like.
VP959 is online now  
Old 23rd May 2020, 14:33
  #2985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Capt K you are trying to defend the indefensible, and failing.

Cummings has broken the law and risked spreading the virus to others. He not only travelled when he should not have done, but did so when actually contagious. Others who broke the rule have done the honourable thing and resigned.

However you try to spin it, you can't change the facts. He was wrong.
​​​​​​
You, like others, are making judgments that may not accord with the 'facts' simply because of conflicting reports. Why I wonder are you and all the other executioners not more interested in the 15- 20,000 visitors arriving at GBs airports every day ? Arriving from countries where TB, blackwater fever, cholera, ,dengue fever is endemic and are not tested when they arrive but now, only now, are they being ASKED to self quarantine against the likelihood of the coronavirus for 14 days. Who is supervising. And if the quarantined simply walk away, what then?

Quite suddenly, Cummings who seems to be strongly disliked by the socialists who infest this forum is the Tory zealot from Hell - or, somewhere warmer. He and elements of his family took a 300 mile or so trip to see - guess what - his family to arrange aspects of their welfare. I would guess that being a sensible thinking individual he managed their bodily function stops on the trip with more than adequate observance of physical distancing.

No. None of you will accept that. Regardless, you want his head on a platter with or without garnish. Pay attention to the matters that really will impinge on the nations health and welfare, Upwards of 20,000 (debateable figure) unchecked visitors from around the world. Think about the potential. And still the boatloads cross the English Channel. Cummings is small beer by comparison. Get real. Protest in the right direction.
Capt Kremmen is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 14:36
  #2986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 349
What-about-ism. It means you lost the argument.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 23rd May 2020, 14:40
  #2987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Ilmington, Warwickshire
Posts: 132
As I’ve posted on the Coronavirus thread, the daily briefing where we’re all told what a wonderful job we’re doing, that numbers are falling due to our concerted efforts and how much our leaders appreciate the sacrifices we are making, is beginning to sound very hollow and insincere. How dare they show us graphs and express disappointment in the fact that car usage is creeping up and remind us that we should only be out if necessary.

Why should any of us be even outraged to see so many people on the beaches in the recent hot weather? I don’t blame them, it looks very much like our leaders lied to us about how serious this virus is? After all, if it was that bad, they wouldn’t be flouting the advice surely and they’re closer to the experts who know the real facts?
BehindBlueEyes is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 14:54
  #2988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
What-about-ism. It means you lost the argument.
I never lose puerile arguments. Just confirm to me and any others that 20,000 zero health checked visitors arrive every day on our shores and that you are not in least bit concerned. There is a word that describes someone with that view: hypocrite.
Capt Kremmen is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 14:54
  #2989 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lemonia. Best Greek in the world
Posts: 1,649
About 50 years ago I might well have been called a Trot and a Pinko.

I have not been called that for over 40 years.

No matter what his motivation, he broke the law as it then was, and if either Boris or this person have any integrity, he should RESIGN - NOW.

However, he probably thinks he is so close to others who have drifted off to 2nd or 3rd houses that he can do so.

Liz the Kraut and Phil the Greek - 2nd home. Bill the Greek and the Middleton woman - 2nd or 3rd home. Boris - recuperates in 2nd home. Need I go on...........?
Ancient Observer is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:03
  #2990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 54
Posts: 840
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Capt K you are trying to defend the indefensible, and failing.

Cummings has broken the law and risked spreading the virus to others. He not only travelled when he should not have done, but did so when actually contagious. Others who broke the rule have done the honourable thing and resigned.

However you try to spin it, you can't change the facts. He was wrong.
​​​​​​
Don’t try and stop him - it’s comedy gold! Notice that even the JB rep from the Tory Media Centre, ORAC isn’t trying to defend the indefensible!
Curious Pax is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:08
  #2991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
Don’t try and stop him - it’s comedy gold! Notice that even the JB rep from the Tory Media Centre, ORAC isn’t trying to defend the indefensible!
CP

Why not have a go at delivering a sensible answer to 2991?
Capt Kremmen is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:11
  #2992 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,519
To be precise, he did not break the law, which are laid down in the Health Protection (Restrictions) Regulations, section 6.

Under the regulations people were, at the time, not allowed to leave their home without “reasonable excuse”. No definitive list of reasonable excuses is given, the text itself stating “a reasonable excuse includes”. As it so happens 6(L) does cover the circumstances giving the reason “to move house where reasonably necessary”.

Most people would consider ensuring adequate family support for a 6 year old child when both parents were starting to experience symptoms a reasonable excuse, certainly far more so than having a visit from one’s mistress.

From the information released the Cummings moved into non-shared accommodation near, but not shared, with his parents and sisters. They self-isolated with the sisters leaving groceries outside the door.

In this matter Cummings has the support of the “big beasts” in the Cabinet nd I do not see him resigning, or being required to resign.


Last edited by ORAC; 23rd May 2020 at 15:26.
ORAC is online now  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:25
  #2993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by Capt Kremmen View Post
I never lose puerile arguments. Just confirm to me and any others that 20,000 zero health checked visitors arrive every day on our shores and that you are not in least bit concerned. There is a word that describes someone with that view: hypocrite.
1st strike - what about.
2nd strike - demand an answer to a different question.
3rd strike - ?
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:27
  #2994 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 378
One wonders quite what hold Cummings has over these "big beasts" in the cabinet. Why did they not step in to defend the actions of Neil Ferguson's lady friend, so he didn't feel the need to resign from SAGE?

Perhaps we need to remind ourselves of the statements made on that occasion:

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said it was "extraordinary" and that he "took the right decision to resign".

He told Sky News that it was "just not possible" for Prof Ferguson to continue advising the government.

Mr Hancock said the social distancing rules "are there for everyone" and are "deadly serious".

Scotland Yard said Prof Ferguson's behaviour was "plainly disappointing" but officers "do not intend to take any further action".

No 10 said the prime minister agreed with his decision to resign but Prof Ferguson was not told to do so and made the decision himself.

"Social distancing regulations are there for a very clear purpose," the prime minister's spokesman added.
VP959 is online now  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:28
  #2995 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
To be precise, he did not break the law, which are laid down in the Health Protection (Restrictions) Regulations, section 6.

Under the regulations people were, at the time, not allowed to leave their home without “reasonable”. No definitive list of reasonable excuses is given, the text itself stating “a reasonable excuse includes”. As it so happens 6(L) does cover the circumstances giving the reason “to move house where reasonably necessary”.

Most people would consider ensuring adequate family support for a 6 year old child when both parents were starting to experience symptoms a reasonable excuse, certainly far more so than having a visit from one’s mistress.

From the information released the Cummings moved into non-shared accommodation near, but not shared, with his parents and sisters. They self-isolated with the sisters leaving groceries outside the door.

In this matter Cummings has the support of the “big beasts” in the Cabinet nd I do not see him resigning, or being required to resign.

https://twitter.com/michaelgove/stat...733186050?s=21
Of course they support him. They probably wouldn't be where they are today without him, and they will need him again.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:37
  #2996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
1st strike - what about.
2nd strike - demand an answer to a different question.
3rd strike - ?
Re 2991

All of a sudden, you've become quite shy. We're all waiting - just answer the question. Let us know something about your priorities.
Capt Kremmen is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:40
  #2997 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 67
Posts: 378
The key thing here is that, no matter what Cummings or his fan club of supporters may say, he very clearly and blatantly breached the government guidance on what constituted essential travel, with respect to the regulations. That is still in place today (here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...ravel-guidance ) and it says this:

The reasons you may leave home include:
  • For work, where you cannot work at home
  • Going to shops that are permitted to be open - to get things like food and medicine
  • To exercise or spend time outdoors
  • Any medical need, including to donate blood, avoid illness or injury, escape risk of harm, or to provide care or help to a vulnerable person
It also says this (my added emphasis):

Essential travel does not include visits to second homes, camp sites, caravan parks or similar, whether for isolation purposes or holidays. People must remain in their primary residence. Not taking these steps puts additional pressure on communities and services that are already at risk.

People with holiday homes and caravans are still not permitted to travel to their second home or to stay overnight. Leaving your home - the place you live - to stay at another home is not allowed.
There is no possible way to argue that Cummings actions in driving hundreds of miles to stay somewhere other then his home were in any way compliant with the above. The childcare argument is spurious - it implies that three was zero childcare support where he lived. I find it absolutely unbelievable that someone in his position could not find emergency childcare support without leaving his home, the whole idea is preposterous, and reeks of him trying to justify his actions after the event (and only when he got caught out - he didn't volunteer this info at the time, did he?).
VP959 is online now  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:40
  #2998 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 76
Posts: 316
With regard to Dominic Cummings' recent actions and Joe Biden's ("you ain't black") remarks, it seems clear to me that their previously much vaunted political antennae are utterly shot through and that therefore both are well past their sell-by dates.
Barksdale Boy is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:48
  #2999 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 0
"provide care or help to a vulnerable person" Presumably that is his escape clause. Only he knows how any 'vulnerable people' there are in his family.

VP. Let me turn to you. Which of the two means more or, do they both have the same value ? Cummings alleged shenanigans or the importation of up to 20,000 untested, zero health checked visitors to our shores perhaps in possession of a wide range of serious exotic diseases ?
Capt Kremmen is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 15:58
  #3000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 1,832
The key thing here is that, no matter what Cummings or his fan club of supporters may say, he very clearly and blatantly breached the government guidance on what constituted essential travel, with respect to the regulations. That is still in place today (here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...ravel-guidance ) and it says this:
Fact is that had we done what he did, and got stopped, we would have been turned around, or fined £60.00 if we insisted on carrying on. I rather imagine he, on the other hand, flashed his "silver badge" (ref. Rt Hon Jim Hacker, drunk as a lord in charge of a motor vehicle) and the constable to said "OK Sir, on your way!".
ATNotts is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.