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New Scottish Independence vote - 2021?

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New Scottish Independence vote - 2021?

Old 13th Dec 2019, 15:44
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New Scottish Independence vote - 2021?

Now that the General Election is out of the way I can see "Indyref2" becoming the new brexit - but I think I have a plan.........

If the UK government simply stonewalls the SNP, refusing a legal vote in 2020, and in the meantime gets the UK out of Europe it means that any Scottish subsequent vote would result in Scotland adrift as a small country with no income from England. Even the diehard seperatists would have to weigh up the chances that Europe might take their time in re-admitting them back in which raises all the questions of currency, borders and tariffs.

The longer Boris can hold back the SNP the more the sensible Scots will worry about a future outside both the UK and Europe.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 15:58
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The way it looks from here (Scot living in Ireland), independence may be forced on Scotland due to England's actions, even though the economic case for it is problematic. In legal terms it would be Scotland leaving the UK, but I could argue that England is already in the process of leaving the UK in all but the legal sense, dragging Wales along with it. What best represents the ideal of what the UK should be: England or Scotland?
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 15:58
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Originally Posted by ETOPS View Post
Now that the General Election is out of the way I can see "Indyref2" becoming the new brexit - but I think I have a plan.........

If the UK government simply stonewalls the SNP, refusing a legal vote in 2020, and in the meantime gets the UK out of Europe it means that any Scottish subsequent vote would result in Scotland adrift as a small country with no income from England. Even the diehard seperatists would have to weigh up the chances that Europe might take their time in re-admitting them back in which raises all the questions of currency, borders and tariffs.

The longer Boris can hold back the SNP the more the sensible Scots will worry about a future outside both the UK and Europe.
Exactly the same arguments against the first Indyref. Of course it would be very difficult for Scotland to become independent, but for the diehard nationalists it's an emotional issue not a practical one.
Just the same as Brexit - damn the consequences, we just want out.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 16:08
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The SNP could hire Cummings and Farage, both needing a job now. That should do it.

Winning slogans just need three words 'Get Independance Done' 'Take Back Control' all have worked.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 17:56
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A majority vote by the people of Scotland, in favour of an independent Scotland...is unlikely; no matter when the referendum happens. (born there and currently live there.)
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 19:33
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The SNP got 45% of the Scottish vote. Should they promise the Greens that they will carpet Scotland with wind turbines then that will make it 46%.

All the other parties are against Independence and Nicola cannot guarantee that every SNP voter will vote for Independence so the result will be much the same as the last time.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 19:40
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Just think of what the size of Boris majority would be with out Scotland 59 seats only 6 of them Conservative 53 not
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 19:46
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
The SNP could hire Cummings and Farage, both needing a job now. That should do it.

Winning slogans just need three words .
If independence promises as much as Brexit does, I propose, 'Let's F**k Ourselves!'

CG
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 19:50
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She is at it again, note when she was talking about the General Election she kept referring to it as an English Election which it was not. If she thought it was why did the SNP stand, to say it was an overwhelming Scottish vote and try to pass it off as an excuse for another referendum is simply another of her lame excuses to divert her countries attention from seeing the failings happening at home. I see the Orkney's were held by the Libs, and that was the area that last time around wished to stay in the UK, I wonder how she will argue that case considering most of the oil assets are on their patch. and they still got less actual votes than 50% so not a resounding leave vote either
After 59 of 59 seats
Party% shareSNP Scottish National Party45.0%CON Conservative25.1%LAB Labour18.6%LD Liberal Democrat9.5%GRN Green1.0%BRX The Brexit Party0.5%
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 19:54
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Given the amount of money we are supposed to be paying the EU for our share of the divorce, I wonder what Scotlands share would be for leaving the Union...
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 20:34
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and how much of the UK's national debt ( 1.9 Trillion ?) will they take in any separation ?
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 20:53
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Originally Posted by ETOPS View Post
If the UK government simply stonewalls the SNP, refusing a legal vote in 2020, and in the meantime gets the UK out of Europe it means that any Scottish subsequent vote would result in Scotland adrift as a small country with no income from England. Even the diehard seperatists would have to weigh up the chances that Europe might take their time in re-admitting them back in which raises all the questions of currency, borders and tariffs.

The longer Boris can hold back the SNP the more the sensible Scots will worry about a future outside both the UK and Europe.
There is a fundamental flaw in your perceptions.
You can have it that Scotland is currently well governed, or you can have it that Scotland currently requires financial support from England - but you cannot have both simultaneously.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 20:58
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Just include the rest of the UK on Iniref2. The Scots will get their wish to leave and the rest of us will be free of their whining leader. Win, win.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 21:49
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When Krankie finally gets the heave ho, one hopes they send a camera crew round to the Swinson household to film her reaction.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 22:25
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Confirmation from Government: "When giving the Scottish people a referendum on independence, Nicola Sturgeon told them that it would be a once in a lifetime decision. Their democratic decision was to remain within the Union. There will not be another independence referendum".
from Twitter...
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 22:33
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
She is at it again, note when she was talking about the General Election she kept referring to it as an English Election which it was not. If she thought it was why did the SNP stand, to say it was an overwhelming Scottish vote and try to pass it off as an excuse for another referendum is simply another of her lame excuses to divert her countries attention from seeing the failings happening at home. I see the Orkney's were held by the Libs, and that was the area that last time around wished to stay in the UK, I wonder how she will argue that case considering most of the oil assets are on their patch. and they still got less actual votes than 50% so not a resounding leave vote either
After 59 of 59 seats
Party% shareSNP Scottish National Party45.0%CON Conservative25.1%LAB Labour18.6%LD Liberal Democrat9.5%GRN Green1.0%BRX The Brexit Party0.5%
It appears you consider that the SNP taking 45% of the Scottish vote and 81% of the Scottish seats in Westminster is not a ringing endorsement of their manifesto. Surely by that logic it follows that the Tory total of 43.6% of the national vote and 57% of the seats in Westminster is not an endorsement of their policies or manifesto and therefore, by your logic, there is no mandate for Brexit to proceed.

What should we do? Cancel Article 50 or have a second referendum?
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 22:40
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Originally Posted by occasional View Post
There is a fundamental flaw in your perceptions.
You can have it that Scotland is currently well governed, or you can have it that Scotland currently requires financial support from England - but you cannot have both simultaneously.
There is a fundamental flaw in *your* perceptions, namely that you can and currently do have both simultaneously.

Whilst pointing out this simple fact, as a Scot born and bred, I would also add that the SNP's endlessly trotted out mantra that Scotland is entitled to self determination because they hold so many UK parliamentary seats is ludicrous when they only hold less than a tenth of the seats in the Union, repeat Union, Parliament to which they belong. I

n the same vein, I surely cannot be the only person, Scottish or otherwise, who looks askance at the fact that the wee nippy sweetie was allowed to make all the running for the SNP in the run-up to the election, rather than the leader of the SNP at Westminster, who has inevitably come across as looking and sounding thoroughly emasculated. She is of course the First Minister and leader of the party but it does seem most odd that she was allowed to do this so freely, despite having absolutely no official standing at Westminster.

One cannot help feeling that she is making as much of the running as she can at the present, bearing in mind that she will shortly have other fish to fry....

Jack

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Old 13th Dec 2019, 22:50
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As a result of the turkeys voting for perpetual Christmas, Brexit is now about to undo around 30 years of integration, and has resulted in closing on four years of economic stagnation and shrinkage. At least with Brexit, the country doesn't have to instantly establish a civil service, armed forces or (A)political (?) representation in however many countries around the globe.

Now as for Hadrian's Wall needing to get new Customs posts..... With the unhinged [insert your own disparaging description here*]'s vision and forethought, we'll be trying to untangle roughly 300 years of integration and be saddled with all those start-up costs. Couple that with the EU's previous, Sturgeon-inconvenient, statements that ALL new applications will be treated on a first-come, first-served basis as well as a mandatory sign up to using the Euro, the Common Fisheries Policy, Common Agricultural Policy etc. so it's neither going to go well or rapidly. It was also stated that all new applications also have to join the back of the queue behind Turkey until they are admitted or withdraw. Anyone want to remind me how well & speedily that's progressing?

So, first there will have to be a negotiated withdrawal from the rump UK, decide on a political system and a head of state, work our a formalised trade agreement with the former UK, a period of stabilisation to prove to the EU we're not what used to be referred to as a "Banana Republic, all before we get to the stage of mailing off our application to Brussels.

As a nationalist (small "n") I'm profoundly disappointed in how rapidly the promise of Holyrood has degenerated into something less relevant to the average punter than a Parish Council, and charges us more for the privilege of living here. Hence, I will be hugely surprised that if this madness proceeds that there isn't mass starvation, population poverty levels comparable with sub-Saharan Africa and a temping offer to buy the whole place from "The Trumpwit". Time to look out the emigration plans again.

* Depending on if you view this as a leader or party issue, typical / suitable /widely used suggestions are/have been:
Nut-Jobs
Bint,
Wide-O
Zoomer
Government?
Lawyer
Bunch o'Bams
Rocket
Wee Jimmy Krankie impersonator

If adequately aggrieved or frustrated by the whole lying, conniving, self-serving, self-centred, blinkered bunch of free loaders - Feel free to add your own,
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 03:24
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As a nationalist (small "n") I'm profoundly disappointed in how rapidly the promise of Holyrood has degenerated into something less relevant to the average punter than a Parish Council, and charges us more for the privilege of living here. Hence, I will be hugely surprised that if this madness proceeds that there isn't mass starvation, population poverty levels comparable with sub-Saharan Africa and a temping offer to buy the whole place from "The Trumpwit". Time to look out the emigration plans again.
Let's not forget, having 3 devolved parliaments or whatever one calls them. simply means, 3 times the civil servants and bureaucracy involved and having to be paid for to run them all and three times extra politicians.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 08:02
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Lets keep this in perspective, the SNP vote was 4% of the votes cast by the UK electorate.
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