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New Scottish Independence vote - 2021?

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New Scottish Independence vote - 2021?

Old 15th Dec 2019, 14:31
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
You have been colonised. As a a Scotsman you cannot believe the Scots are capable of running their own country. You need the English apparently. Where did this self hatred come from? Not from the English.
Scotland is a very distinct country but somehow they've sold themselves to their neighbour. Who as you say provide 'hand outs from Westminster'.

Your disdain for your countrymen is obvious. Why are you ashamed to be Scottish?
Where is my disdain for Scotland or the Scottish obvious?

My disdain is for the blinkered who think that Scotland will be better off outside the Union. The Union works very well... Scotland do extremely well out of it. If the Scots want independence (and I do not think the majority do), then it has to be totally independent. That means setting up offices for every single bit of administration etc that is currently run as part of the Union.

The last referendum was a 'once in a generation' referendum. But. as Sturgeon didn't like the result, she's back a couple of years later trying to get another. What happens if it's another 'no' vote??? Another referendum in 2023???

My disdain is for people who, unhappy with a democratic vote, bleat and bleat until they get another. Exactly the same disdain I have for the vote regarding Brexit. I'm a remainer, but we live in a democracy, not a society where we have tantrums until we get what we want.

Also, I do not for one minute believe that Scots couldn't run Scotland. However what state would it be in? Not due any incompetence from said Scots, but from the lack of resources to ensure that the country can be as great, or greater, than it is today.

I say again, If a country wants to be independent from another then that means totally independent. If said country wants to use some resources from another country, then pay for them. I think you will find that Scotland fares very well in the Union
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 14:51
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
..........and the rest of the world.

A Scottish banknote is just a promissory note drawn again £ sterling. Scotland does not have any financial reserves.
They could always use an old form of UK currency like the Groat if they split, but would need to show it was Scottish, so my idea would be to combine the words Scottish and Groat to form a new currency for them, Scroat seems to fit the bill.

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Old 15th Dec 2019, 15:00
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
“Some pocket money returned..” Seriously - how can people write such total nonsense? Scotland gets more back than she contributes. And if you’re talking oil revenues specifically, decommissioning costs are greater than the value of remaining oil so that’s a negative figure. Even assuming that Orkney and Shetland want to leave the UK (Anyone asked them?) Meanwhile, the SNP can’t even tell us what currency an independent Scotland would use.
As to your last point. In her pre-election interview with Andrew Neil a couple of weeks ago, I seem to recall that Sturgeon firmly stated that an independent Scotland would use the pound when asked that question.
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 15:42
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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In which case it’s a pretty odd sort of “independence” with every meaningful financial parameter set by another country.
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 15:46
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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When the Scottish government gained taxation powers recently, what was the first action ? Raise tax by 1p in the pound. What the hell could we expect if they ever did get independence.

Pax Brit: Yet again, you are talking total nonsense.
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 15:52
  #66 (permalink)  

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In which case it’s a pretty odd sort of “independence” with every meaningful financial parameter set by another country.
. Which is exactly what they get in the EU!

It's not a matter of an independent Scotland "staying in the EU"; Scotland is not currently a member, the UK is. If an independent Scotland wanted to join the EU, then my understanding is that they would have to adopt the Euro, giving "a pretty odd sort of independence ..........etc etc"
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 15:53
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
In which case it’s a pretty odd sort of “independence” with every meaningful financial parameter set by another country.
Here's the link:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...icola-sturgeon

12.00 onwards. I have to say it all seems a bit muddled.
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 16:15
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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"A Scottish banknote is just a promissory note drawn again £ sterling. Scotland does not have any financial reserves."

so it's a con - they aren't worth anything?? Has anyone told the Police?

Or is just a silly hang-over that would cost nothing to fix by making them legal tender and remove a petty issue that gets up a lot of Scots noses............
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 16:17
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Geordie_Expat View Post
When the Scottish government gained taxation powers recently, what was the first action ? Raise tax by 1p in the pound. What the hell could we expect if they ever did get independence.

Pax Brit: Yet again, you are talking total nonsense.

That's what devolution and independence mean - you take your own decisions. It is not a fundamental law of the universe that taxes must only go down. The Scots have free Univ education for a start...............
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 17:18
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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There was a very good reason for a once in a generation referendum. It makes people truly think what path they should take.

The Sturgeon way is to have a vote every year, because one day she would get the result she wanted (I imagine that people would have become truly fed up with it all and that apathy would play a large part).

Mind you, following that result, say a Scottish Unionist party was formed and they clamoured for a referendum, I doubt she would countenance further votes on whether should Scotland re-join the Union, which would be somewhat hypercritical of her.
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 18:08
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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So what part of total rubbish was that Scotland could happily survive as an EU or Ec state compared to the many others smaller or same size. Norway Denmark and Finland are all more prosperous than the Uk so why not Scotland.

As for the voting percentage well Sturgeon and Boris did get much the same percentage of the vote, neither of them getting above 50%, so why shouldnt Sturgeon press ahead with her ideas in the same way that Boris 'the people have spoken' can.

Not much of an argument just to say -that was rubbish. I do like speculating/postulating , it is after all Jet Blast Sometimes though, it is worth pointing out a few factual issues. if Scotland is propped up by England and therefore such a terrible drain on the English economy one has to ask why is it that Westminster -ie both parties -are so keen for it to stay. Boris for example would have an even bigger majority if the was no Scotland which only returns a tiny number of Conservatives
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 18:18
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Your final point a very fair one, pax; Tory commitment to the union is one of deeply held principle not political opportunism
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 18:30
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Your final point a very fair one, pax; Tory commitment to the union is one of deeply held principle not political opportunism
Did you manage to keep a straight face when you wrote that?
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 18:43
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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This thread regrettably seems to be going the way of UK Politics Hamsterwheel Mk III in that some posters chip in with comments that bear no relation to reality or show that they clearly have not made the effort to study, and benefit from, earlier posts. On the plus side, at least it hasn't degenerated - so far! - into what appears to be a competition to see how many links to newspapers can be posted, with The Guardian probably winning at present.

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Old 15th Dec 2019, 19:10
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by teeteringhead View Post
. Which is exactly what they get in the EU!

It's not a matter of an independent Scotland "staying in the EU"; Scotland is not currently a member, the UK is. If an independent Scotland wanted to join the EU, then my understanding is that they would have to adopt the Euro, giving "a pretty odd sort of independence ..........etc etc"
Your understanding is not quite right. Whilst any new country joining the EU has to agree to adopt the Euro, it is for the joining country to decide when that happens. In other words, ‘yes’ they have to agree to join the Euro but there is no timescale set down to achieve that and the joining country sets its own criteria. A bit odd, but there you are. (SallyAnn and I chewed this over quite some time ago).

Last edited by yellowtriumph; 15th Dec 2019 at 20:30.
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 20:36
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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On the other hand, an independent Scotland might actually prefer to change to the Euro rather than stay with the declining Pound.
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 21:03
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Question

Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Scottish Pound Notes - which aren't accepted in most of England..........................
As a matter of fact, Scottish pound notes are generally accepted in England.
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Old 15th Dec 2019, 22:49
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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I think that it's going to heavily affect the opinion of the Scottish people how the UK economy fares post Brexit end of 2020.

Growth seems to be at zero now and 2020 is going to bring even more chaos and uncertainty.

I wouldn't be surprised if the UK drops out with minimal, or no trade agreements end of 2020, resulting in economic shrinkage quarter-by-quarter, year-by-year.

Then, give it 3 - 5 years, and the a majority of Scots may want to leave the UK after all.
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Old 16th Dec 2019, 04:19
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Avionker, yes I did because as was pointed out, Scotland makes it harder for the Tories electorally.
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Old 16th Dec 2019, 07:37
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Avionker, yes I did because as was pointed out, Scotland makes it harder for the Tories electorally.
Given that Scotland makes things harder for the Tories electorally, a point I agree on you with by the way, why are they so opposed to Scottish independence?

If Scotland is, as is so often stated, a nation of subsidy junkies who get more out of the Union than they put in, what is in it for the Tories? Why the pig headed attitude to allowing the Scottish people the freedom of choice?

Do you honestly think that they are so altruistic and benevolent? Because their history would seem to suggest otherwise.
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