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Looking up recent Magistrate court cases?

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Looking up recent Magistrate court cases?

Old 4th Dec 2019, 17:13
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Looking up recent Magistrate court cases?

If a Magistrate court case has been heard and not found I believe that the charges and the witness evidence is now in the public domain?

If this is the case, is it possible to look up the record of proceedings any where?

The only spanner in the works may be that I don't know which court it was heard at as, I understand, it may be local to where the alleged crime took place or at a court near to the defendant (singular in this case) lives.

The non crime was along cycle route CS3 in London. I know the name of the defendant but not where he lives.

The case was heard during the last two weeks of November just passed.

The chap has created a Youtube video which says loosely what happened but not what crime he was accused of committing or why it was not a crime.......

Anyone?

Rans6......

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Old 4th Dec 2019, 18:18
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Not sure about your ‘not found’ bit of your post on the first line. If he was found NG forget it (you do say ‘non crime’.
If the Defendant was convicted you can apply to the Mags Ct for a Memorandum of Conviction, but to do that you need to know in which Court he was convicted. You already have his name and you then write and
contact the Ct, ascertain the fee and the Memo will then give the offence and the penalty. You’ll have to pay but it’s not much. You won’t get any sight of any of the evidence in the Memo. Ordinarily the Court hears the case in the area where the offence was committed, where he lives is irrelevant.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 19:46
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Originally Posted by rans6andrew View Post
If a Magistrate court case has been heard and not found I believe that the charges and the witness evidence is now in the public domain?
Evidence is only in the public domain inasmuch as the public can sit in the public gallery at any Mags or Crown Court trial (with a very few exceptions) and listen to it all. While there will be an audio recording of the proceedings (at least in the CC), you're not going to get access to that.

The only other option, if it's a high-profile trial, is to hope that the press has been in attendance.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 19:38
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From the chap's Youtube video he was "rolling along" CS3 cycle route on an electric skateboard. He was stopped by a PC and a good natured conversation took place. After some discussion the PC was still convinced that a law was being broken and a fixed penalty fine was imposed. The chap decided to contest the penalty and it ended up at the Magistrates Court. He went to court fully prepared to defend himself and the case was thrown out before he got to the end of his first page of his notes. No explanation of what the charge was, or why it was thrown out. What we don't know is whether he was pratting about or keeping a low profile. We don't know if he was riding at speed and endangering others. Nothing helpful to go on at all.

The use of electric scooters/skateboards/hoverboards is a bit of a grey area. The chap was stopped approximately one week before that high profile death in July or August of the TV presenter killed while riding an electric scooter. Since then a law specifically for banning the use of electric scooters in all public places has been rushed through. Skateboards and hoverboards are deemed to be "motor carriages" in the eyes of the DfT and, lacking insurance, lights, brakes etc are not able to be made road legal..... Unlike electric scooters they have not specifically been banned by a law. They still come under road traffic act law dating from 1835 and badly in need of bringing into the 21st Century.

On the other hand, there are many Youtube videos showing electric skateboards in use in public and in the UK. Many show them passing right in front of officers of the law who show little or no interest. The shops selling all of these devices are taking a cautious approach and advising customers that they should only operate on private land.

So you pays yer money and hopes for the best.

I quite fancy getting an electric skateboard myself so I am quite keen to understand the situation.

I understand that the laws have been relaxed for a trial of electric skateboards/onewheels around the olympic village in London which is not a lot of help to anyone anywhere else in the UK.

Rans6....................
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 20:19
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The law seems very clear on electric skateboards, scooters etc. They can only be used on private land, not any highway, pavement, public right of way, etc, as technically they are classified as "motor vehicles". Riding one of these on a public cycle path is definitely an offence.

My guess is that either there wasn't enough evidence to prove that he'd broken the law, or the clerk, and the prosecution, weren't familiar with the detail of the law. There are certainly groups and manufacturers who are lobbying to allow the use of electric scooters, skateboards etc, but if they are allowed to be used on footpaths and pavements then I can foresee them being a bloody nuisance. Some of the faster mobility scooters can be a PITA, a 10 to 20mph electric skateboard or whatever would be potentially pretty dangerous around pedestrians.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 22:56
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How can the chap say there was no explanation of what the charge was? If he was issued a fixed penalty notice, the alleged offence would be detailed right there. And I don't see how the case would have been thrown out of court "before he go to the end of his first page of notes". Surely, at the commencement of the hearing, the clerk would have read the charge to him? And, if the magistrates threw the case out, they would have specified the reason why they were throwing it out.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 00:26
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Funnily enough a bloke zapped past me earlier this evening on an electric unicycle (ie just a wheel with foot plates either side). He was on the road in the cycle lane and easily doing 30mph, way faster than most cyclists would be. His mount certainly had a rear light and I presume a front light. Insurance? Tax? How quickly could he stop?
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 07:37
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
. Some of the faster mobility scooters can be a PITA,.
How very inconsiderate of people with mobility impairments to have the gall to use such scooters and impede your progress ...incidentally, there are two types, one is deemed roadworthy and has to be registered as such, plus complying with the RTA, the other form, which we have, doesn't.

But surely. given the expertise gained in your flying career, spatial and situational awareness will be second nature so you will always be aware of their presence and easily avoid them

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Old 6th Dec 2019, 07:58
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There used to be two elderly women in Croydon who were an absolute bloody menace on their mobility scooters, careering round the pavements like a pair of banger racers and scattering pedestrians like confetti. One of them nearly clobbered me in a pedestrian tunnel under Wellesley Road, she came flying round a sharp corner at about 20mph. I once saw them collide in a narrowing between a lamp post and a BT cabinet. On the other hand, the wheel-chaired young lady who lives near me now is a real sweetie; although she goes quite fast along the pavements, she slows down near any pedestrians and has a lovely smile for everyone, even when you haven't heard her coming up behind and cheerfully waves aside any apology.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 08:49
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
There used to be two elderly women in Croydon who were an absolute bloody menace on their mobility scooters, careering round the pavements like a pair of banger racers and scattering pedestrians like confetti. One of them nearly clobbered me in a pedestrian tunnel under Wellesley Road, she came flying round a sharp corner at about 20mph. I once saw them collide in a narrowing between a lamp post and a BT cabinet. On the other hand, the wheel-chaired young lady who lives near me now is a real sweetie; although she goes quite fast along the pavements, she slows down near any pedestrians and has a lovely smile for everyone, even when you haven't heard her coming up behind and cheerfully waves aside any apology.
The pavement-friendly, speed restricted,mobility scooters seem fine in the main, it's those that choose to drive the relatively fast ones on pavements that seem to cause problems. Not so much their outright speed, but their very much more rapid acceleration, that can catch pedestrians unawares. Not much fun having one of these bash into the back of your legs. As I understand it, the faster ones, intended for use on roads, as well as pavements, are supposed to be switched to a speed limited mode when used on pavements. I'd guess this is fine if users remember to do this, but it seems that there are some who don't, and this then seems to make control at low speeds more difficult.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 09:04
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
But surely. given the expertise gained in your flying career, spatial and situational awareness will be second nature so you will always be aware of their presence and easily avoid them
Ah yes. In situations like this I find the eyes in the back of my head very useful.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 12:07
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How can the chap say there was no explanation of what the charge was? If he was issued a fixed penalty notice, the alleged offence would be detailed right there. And I don't see how the case would have been thrown out of court "before he go to the end of his first page of notes". Surely, at the commencement of the hearing, the clerk would have read the charge to him? And, if the magistrates threw the case out, they would have specified the reason why they were throwing it out.
I'm guessing this would have been a pre-trial hearing based on an intention to plead not guilty to the FPN. The police have quite a broad choice of FPN's under the Road Traffic Act and it could be that if they had selected say, 'Failure to comply with a traffic sign or road marking' on the basis the skateboard was motorised and was in a cycle lane, the CPS (not the magistrates) might have decided this wasn't a battle they wanted to fight for £70 or whatever the fine is. Of course, the real fun is trying to police e-bikes which are not EAPC compliant using cycle lanes. The French solved the problem by embracing the technology and making it both legal and part of city transport infrastructure..
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 19:56
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I know this chap, he found the legal stance the expensive way!

https://www.visordown.com/news/gener...ds-ahead-dakar

SND
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 20:27
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Sir Niall,
Two points,
Gavels, much loved by ace journos - or at least by sub editors who must authorise such photos, are not used in Mags Cts, Crown Cts etc etc in the UK.
District Judges don’t ever prosecute - they adjudicate.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 21:28
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ClareProp, the chap didn't say there was no explanation, he clearly knows what he was accused of and why he didn't end up being found guilty but is under the impression that telling us any of the legal stuff might be wrong in the eyes of the legal system.... So he has spent ten minutes on Youtube telling us nothing, nothing that might help other electric skateboard/scooter/unicycle/onewheel riders from getting taken to court or avoiding punishment.

Rans6...........
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 21:47
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Originally Posted by rans6andrew View Post
ClareProp, the chap didn't say there was no explanation, he clearly knows what he was accused of and why he didn't end up being found guilty but is under the impression that telling us any of the legal stuff might be wrong in the eyes of the legal system.... So he has spent ten minutes on Youtube telling us nothing, nothing that might help other electric skateboard/scooter/unicycle/onewheel riders from getting taken to court or avoiding punishment.

Rans6...........
Easy way for anyone that wishes to ride any unlicensed, uninsured, unregistered, motor vehicle (and even an electric skateboard is classified as a motor vehicle at the moment) is to just not use it on any public highway, pavement, path, right of way, etc. They are fine when driven on private land.

Arguably the law needs amending, but that isn't easy to do, as the whole issue of small electric motor vehicles is a minefield when it comes to describing them. Around 6 or 7 years ago I got involved in trying to help a chap in Portsmouth who had purchased an electric scooter from a dealer in the city. It was sold on the basis that it was an electric bike, as, despite looking like a motor scooter, it had some small pedals poking out of the footplate. The chap rode it to and from work for months, then got stopped by the police because the scooter didn't have a registration plate. He asked for help on an electric vehicle forum, and as I lived near by I went to see him. The scooter was a Chinese import, and was clearly illegal. We looked at getting it through the motorcycle single vehicle approval scheme, but there was no way it could be made road legal. The chap tried to seek redress from the dealer (who was still selling the things) but the dealer claimed that he'd never described these scooters as being road legal. Apparently there's nothing to stop anyone selling stuff like this that cannot be used on UK roads, etc.

There's a lad in our village that rides around on an electric skateboard. The lanes here tend to be quiet, so it's not a problem, but it's also clear that this thing has no brakes, and no way of stopping in an emergency. Even a bicycle is (quite sensibly) required to have functioning brakes.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 22:16
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Actually, electric skateboards do have a brake function. Invariably they use eddy current regenerative braking and, on the better ones, the current can be put back into the battery. The function is usually very smooth and progressive controlled by sliding the button on the hand control backwards. A foot powered skateboard on the other hand doesn't have a braking system other than kicking it around sideways and sliding to an untidy stop.

The board I fancy has a mode similar to the legal assisted electric bike mode, it doesn't accelerate it only sustains the speed you have pushed it at. Of course the brakes still work so it is arguably safer than a non electric skateboard...........

Rans6..............
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 22:33
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So he has spent ten minutes on Youtube telling us nothing, nothing that might help another electric skateboard/scooter/unicycle/onewheel riders from getting taken to court or avoiding punishment.
Maybe I can help you then

Leaving cars, milk floats and disability scooters aside, in England and Wales (and possibly Scotland and NI..but I don't know for sure), it is legal to ride an electrically assisted pedal cycle (EAPC) that has a maximum power output of 250 watts and not be able to propel the bike when itís travelling more than 15.5mph, on the road and in cycle lanes. An EAPC can have more than 2 wheels (for example, a tricycle). There is no legislation regarding skateboards, unicycles or e-bikes that can travel faster than 15.5mph other then if they don't meet the EAPC standard, they should be licenced, insured etc. However, as there is no licencing for electric skateboards, scooters, unicycles or faster e-bikes, one presumes they are not highway legal and if you ride one you may be subject to prosecution. Whether a police officer can be bothered to charge someone or not, or the CPS to prosecute, brings us back the subject of this thread.
My view is that if no one is annoyed or affected, the police will turn a blind eye. On the other hand, if someone or some organisation wishes to prove a point of law, they will either bring a civil or criminal action which will be serious enough to be held in a crown court to allow precedence if proven or enact local law to specify what vehicles are or are not allowed.
As I wrote previously, other countries in Europe have decided to embrace the inevitable and licence such vehicles on the basis they are an advantage to transport in cities.
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Old 6th Dec 2019, 22:40
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Originally Posted by rans6andrew View Post
Actually, electric skateboards do have a brake function. Invariably they use eddy current regenerative braking and, on the better ones, the current can be put back into the battery. The function is usually very smooth and progressive controlled by sliding the button on the hand control backwards. A foot powered skateboard on the other hand doesn't have a braking system other than kicking it around sideways and sliding to an untidy stop.

The board I fancy has a mode similar to the legal assisted electric bike mode, it doesn't accelerate it only sustains the speed you have pushed it at. Of course the brakes still work so it is arguably safer than a non electric skateboard...........

Rans6..............
Be interesting to see how an emergency braking skateboard manages to keep the rider in place...

The lad that whizzes around the village is generally going a fair bit faster than most bikes, and seems to always be leaning forwards (not sure if that's just to look cool or a requirement for riding the thing). My guess is that even a modest amount of regen would have him flat on his face. Anything like the regen braking in my car when the accelerator pedal is lifted would probably leave him flying through the air with his board left way behind.

Manufacturers, importers and enthusiasts have been lobbying to make electric skateboards, electric scooters, hoverboards, Segways, etc legal here for many years now, yet there doesn't to be any real indication that anything's about to change.

I've built a couple of electric bikes, and still regularly use one of them, but, because it's a DIY bike, and so not Type Approved to the regs, it's illegal. The fact that it complies with the EAPC rules is neither here nor there, as without the magic bit of EU Type Approval paper it's technically a motor vehicle, so should be registered, taxed (although that's free you still have to have it) and insured. As the bike doesn't outwardly look as if it's electric (battery pack in an ordinary saddlebag and a small hub motor that looks like a dynamo) no one has yet noticed anything untoward about it. Not sure that anyone really cares about electric bikes, anyway, as long as they look like bikes, are being pedalled and aren't being ridden at silly speeds.
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Old 8th Dec 2019, 15:34
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Originally Posted by NRU74 View Post
Sir Niall,
Two points,
Gavels, much loved by ace journos - or at least by sub editors who must authorise such photos, are not used in Mags Cts, Crown Cts etc etc in the UK.
District Judges donít ever prosecute - they adjudicate.
Two things I know well, however, I'm sure such an astute reader as you will have noticed that I merely copied the link to an on-line website. How that website deccides to dress itself up is surely a matter for the editors/moderators. May I respectfully suggest you direct your patronising sarcasm in their direction.

SND
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