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Gender Neutral

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Gender Neutral

Old 3rd Dec 2019, 10:05
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Gender Neutral

Surely the passport is simply a tool to identify a person and their country, and regardless of if he considers himself "Gender Neutral," the reasoning in having the sex listed is simply as another aid to identification, as an example, if the passport says male and the person in front of you is dressed head to foot in a Burka, something is obviously not right..

It is not about how he or she feels or how he or she thinks that he or she should be looked upon by the World.
It also brings up the isssue he or she may be over looking in that even if he or she gets his or her sex listed as "X Gender Neutral", there is nothing to stop the rest of the World that uses the system to identify individuals entering their countries from ever accepting it and allowing him or her access.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50638629
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 10:23
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I think 'it' may find overseas holiday plans ruined.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 10:41
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Once again, people are confusing (I believe in many cases deliberately) the terms sex and gender.

Gender is what someone feels like. One can feel sympathy for someone who feels differently to the way they were born, and wishes to change their physical appearance accordingly. It must take great courage to undertake surgery to achieve that.

Sex is determined at conception and cannot be changed because it is written into every cell in the body. Except in a few very rare cases every individual has either XX or XY chromosomes.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 10:49
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This is when the primary purpose of the passport turns into a statement of self affirmation rather than an instrument for proof of passage, and in the process devalues its role for the latter.

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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 11:40
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Once again, people are confusing (I believe in many cases deliberately) the terms sex and gender.

Gender is what someone feels like. One can feel sympathy for someone who feels differently to the way they were born, and wishes to change their physical appearance accordingly. It must take great courage to undertake surgery to achieve that.

Sex is determined at conception and cannot be changed because it is written into every cell in the body. Except in a few very rare cases every individual has either XX or XY chromosomes.
With the above in mind, then all this is futile as a passport states ‘sex’ and not ‘gender’. As ‘sex’ can’t be changed then there is no need to have an ‘X’ category.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 11:52
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This is going beyond ridiculous
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 12:02
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I think 'it' may find overseas holiday plans ruined.
I believe "it" in Oz is actually a "them"

Covers all bases.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 12:07
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Except in a few very rare cases every individual has either XX or XY chromosomes.
As Tom Jones sang, Delilah was YYY.




Sorry.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 12:16
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Is there really any point to having an "X" category?

It may make Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss/Master Christie Elan-Cane feel good that their human rights are no longer violated, if they actually are, but as the whole point of a passport is to allow travel to a foreign destination, the authorities in the foreign clime will have to honour the "X" category; which may not actually occur as not all countries give a rat's a*se about whether you identify in a non-binary human sex way.

IMHO, as Fareastdriver said, there'll be some ruined travel plans ahead for the "X" identifiers for travel in many parts of the world.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 14:03
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The options are just be expanded to cover those available in the ICAO 9303 MRTD format, no more or less. The options have been in the specification for at least 20 years. e.g.

https://www.icao.int/publications/pa...px?docnum=9303

Visual fields: Sex of the holder, to be specified by use of the single initial commonly used in the language of the State where the document is issued and, if translation into English, French or Spanish is necessary, followed by an oblique and the capital letter F for female, M for male, or X for unspecified

Machine readable fields: M = Male, F = Female, < = Unspecified.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 18:55
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In that case I want to choose the date of birth that appears in my passport. I wish to be identified as a few years younger.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 19:08
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@FF. That one has already been put through the court in Holland, and it was a no. I guess it has to be surgery then!
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 19:10
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I've always thought it unreasonable that the photo in one's passport has to be the bearer's.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 19:45
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I know I'm a dinosaur but I believe you have male, female, go see a mental health professional.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 23:21
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Once again, people are confusing (I believe in many cases deliberately) the terms sex and gender.

Gender is what someone feels like. One can feel sympathy for someone who feels differently to the way they were born, and wishes to change their physical appearance accordingly. It must take great courage to undertake surgery to achieve that.

Sex is determined at conception and cannot be changed because it is written into every cell in the body. Except in a few very rare cases every individual has either XX or XY chromosomes.
I would urge you to watch this.

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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 23:49
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Originally Posted by flyingfemme View Post
In that case I want to choose the date of birth that appears in my passport. I wish to be identified as a few years younger.

If someone wants to be called 'they' and not 'he' or 'she', why say no?
Rights aren’t a pie, the fact ‘they’ wish to be identified using a certain pronoun, really has cock all to do with you or me (pun intended!).

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Old 4th Dec 2019, 00:21
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That being the case, my preferred pronoun is now "Captain"

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Old 4th Dec 2019, 01:12
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I've always thought it unreasonable that the photo in one's passport has to be the bearer's
I haven't decided who's going to tote the casket yet either Dave.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 11:53
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Originally Posted by currawong View Post
I would urge you to watch this.

https://youtu.be/qlRkLtKqSrY
I'm not sure why that is relevant to a definition of sex vs gender.

The gentleman was taking about children being pressed to undergo unnecessary treatment, which of course is wrong.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 12:09
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Originally Posted by currawong View Post
I would urge you to watch this.

https://youtu.be/qlRkLtKqSrY
My daughter has a friend, who at 24 wants to be sterilised. She is adamant she wants no children. The medics are refusing to help her as she, “might change her mind” And yet, children under 18 can undergo permanent gender reassignment and are considered mature enough to make a completely life changing decision. Crazy.
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