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Hope everyone near London Bridge are ok, shots fired

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Hope everyone near London Bridge are ok, shots fired

Old 2nd Dec 2019, 01:26
  #101 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
VP959: For goodness sake, give it up! Can you perhaps describe the method/equipment "sends signals to a satellite 24 housr a day "? Once you understand that this is utter nonsense, then you will begin to see why the rest of the crap in the brochure should not be taken at face value. Trackers of varying forms have been in use for quite some time and they all work more or less the same way. The tracking technology is not so incredible. All that happens is a receiver receives signals from a couple of satellites. The satellites only broadcast time signals and it is possible figure out, via calculating the time difference between the received signals, where the receiver is. This can be sent either via the cellular telephone system or via a dedicated private radio network. At no time is the relative peace of any satellite disturbed by an unwanted signal arriving from Bert the Crim's ankle!
Torquetalk has cracked it. I presume the cart needed to get all that kit around would include a generator and a 1m dish antenna, thus as he said, making the offender obvious from quite some distance.

what you mean like this... Sends to satellite and tiny.

https://www.findmespot.eu/en/index.p...pk_kwd=website
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 06:01
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Communicates with a communications satellite NOT a GPS satellite. This could be via, for example, one of the low orbit Iridium satellites.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 08:13
  #103 (permalink)  
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Instead of a GPS anklet, I'm more in favour of a GPS strap around the perp's neck which includes appropriate signage.

Inbuilt anti-tamper countermeasures and violations of geofencing co-ordinates to include all sorts of punishment possibilities.

I'd go for the mini explosive charge but that might offend people's sensibilities.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 09:37
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flocci_non_faccio View Post
This argument doesn't stack up.

Part of the purpose of the criminal justice system is to exact retribution on behalf of society. Terrorism strikes at the heart of society and therefore it should attract the most severe possible penalties.
A small part; the main objectives of the CJS as a whole (which encompasses the police, CPS, courts, the prisons and probation service) is to first prevent, then detect crime and finally to both punish and REHABILITATE offenders so that they can rejoin society and turn their back on criminality.

It is somehow ironic that whilst the "lock 'em up and throw away the key" brigade demand that convicted terrorists, and many other groups are kept inside for perpetuity they conveniently overlook that apparent fact that one of extremely brave members of the public that apprehended Khan was a convicted murderer who undoubtedly had completed their mandatory 50% sentence and been released on parole - assuming of course he hadn't escaped from Her Majesty's prison and turned up at the event in Fishmongers Hall. had be been locked up and the key thrown away it would have been down to another brave member of the public to step in - and such brave people do not grow on trees.

I am struggling to understand what exactly the CJS could have done to prevent Khan, obviously a clever and manipulative individual, from doing that he did. He must have had his trip to the conference in London authorised, it would (could) certainly have been tracked and clearly it had not raised any security questions in the minds of those trained to supervise him. All the current criticism is being made on the basis of 20/20 hindsight.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 10:46
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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I am struggling to understand what exactly the CJS could have done to prevent Khan, obviously a clever and manipulative individual, from doing that he did. He must have had his trip to the conference in London authorised, it would (could) certainly have been tracked and clearly it had not raised any security questions in the minds of those trained to supervise him. All the current criticism is being made on the basis of 20/20 hindsight
Of course it's 20/20 hindsight criticism. That's that only kind available after a terrorism event and that's how things get fixed.

Bottom line:
If he had been serving his full, as sentenced by a judge after learned consideration, term, he would not have been able to kill these two people.
It could have been a lot worse, as is the nature of terrorism. I'm quite sure he wanted mass casualties, just as many as he could possibly get.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 13:04
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Of course it's 20/20 hindsight criticism. That's that only kind available after a terrorism event and that's how things get fixed.

Bottom line:
If he had been serving his full, as sentenced by a judge after learned consideration, term, he would not have been able to kill these two people.
It could have been a lot worse, as is the nature of terrorism. I'm quite sure he wanted mass casualties, just as many as he could possibly get.
with respect meadowrun, this argument whilst logically true, is completely fatuous. Clearly had Kahn been in prison, he wouldn’t have been out to commit murder. But had he served longer, the odds are that he would have have committed the same or a similar offense at a later date. The length of the sentence in itself, whilst serving an important punitive element, clearly has little or no bearing on the propensity to reoffend (but it does, of course, reduce the available time in which to do so).

And if one of the people who courageously intervened was a convicted murderer, that really is a fact to digest. That kind juxtaposition of events won’t be coming around very often.

What is missing is proper assessment, rehabilitation if possible, sentence renewal if not, and believable supervision. All the rest is pub talk and will only result in more dumb politics and, in turn, policies. I had the misfortune to get a good first hand account of a former Home Secretary’s take on an excellent project in Brighton some years ago. He could not have seen value if was written on a billboard in big letters right in front of him. A trained lawyer, very intelligent, but ideologically blind and a complete [email protected] And we elect these people over and over because they know how to yank the electorate’s chain.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 13:23
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Just like in business, many of society's ills can be ameliorated by careful analysis of the situation and a ground up approach to a problem which will take a long time to succeed. Improving social mobility (in which Tories have a better record on than Labour ironically), changes in the way we deal with illness and addiction, encouraging the sick and disabled back to work, and better more relevant education for those who will not be likely to go to university will all save the country a huge amount of money and may also ensure that people are less likely to be attracted to extreme views which then lead to terrorism.

The problem is that the length of time to see the success of these ideas is longer than one parliament so any party suggesting it will be kicked out before they can claim the glory.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 13:23
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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like the reaction to the Environmentalist who were dragged off the tube trains a month ago I think people are so p***** off with politics, the weather, protesters and terrorists that we're seeing the "I'm mad as hell and I won't take anymore" syndrome
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 14:59
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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But had he served longer, the odds are that he would have have committed the same or a similar offense at a later date
We cannot cover every possible future eventuality but we can do what makes sense and minimizes risk.
Releasing terrorists early with time off sentences for any reason is akin to shooting one foot off. A self inflicted handicap.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 17:16
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
We cannot cover every possible future eventuality but we can do what makes sense and minimizes risk.
Releasing terrorists early with time off sentences for any reason is akin to shooting one foot off. A self inflicted handicap.
The licensing system means that part of a custodial sentence is served in jail and after a fixed term, the rest is done on licence in the community. The sentence is still being served and this mechanism allows for supervision and recall to prison in the event of further offending etc. See to it that someone serves the full term of a custodial sentence and then there is no mechanism for supervision on release. That clearly puts the public at greater risk.

Now you can discuss much about the quality of assessment, rehabilitative process or preparation for time back outside prison, and the quality of supervision (where it is obvious that there are massive deficits), but if you want a justice system to do all it should be doing, it needs to be joined up. Unfortunately the childish press can’t keep their poisonous gobs out of complex matters and drive a discussion in the public arena which is wholly inadequate. And the politicians get elected on a mock outrage platform of being drivers of change and being tough on criminals. But on-the-whole, not much changes at all. In fact, with respect to The Probation Service, it is a shadow of its former (public sector) self.

The proportion of time spent in prison for a custodial sentence used to be 2/3 if over 24 months. This has been changed to 1/2. I don’t know when or why, but the prisons being packed to the gunnels may very well have something to do with it. Democratic Dave suddenly started taking about the importance of rehabilitation just a few years ago, quite out-of-the-blue, and when there really aren’t any votes in it. And just a few months later it became national news that the prisons where in a two-and eight. Fancy that.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 17:32
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Student friends

Just been informed by a couple of friends who knew the girl sadly, as they studied at uni with her. They went to the same student societies and she defo popped into my local, and I would have crossed paths with her at some point in the last 2/3 years. There was a memorial service at Guildhall here in the city center this morning at the same time as the memorial in London.

RIP

Cheers
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 18:48
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TWT View Post
I'd go for the mini explosive charge but that might offend people's sensibilities.
That's certainly possible. Others might just think you're an idiot, but I couldn't possibly comment.

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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 18:53
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
That's certainly possible. Others might just think you're an idiot, but I couldn't possibly comment.
I did wonder if he inadvertently missed a letter when creating his user name!
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 09:04
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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and finally to both punish and REHABILITATE offenders so that they can rejoin society and turn their back on criminality.
Which is fine yet ignores the fact that some criminals are incapable of rehabilitation. We need to move away from the liberal mindset of rehabilitation being the priority; punishment, retribution and the protection of the public are the clear priorities.

All the current criticism is being made on the basis of 20/20 hindsight.
Which is why the risk should never have been taken in releasing him. He should have been imprisoned for life in the absence of the death penalty, which would have been a far more appropriate sentence.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 09:26
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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A kid has died and many others injured in a deliberate hit and run (attempted murder) outside an Essex school. There was an attempted hit and run style murder in Brighton over the weekend. Why these stories aren't receiving the same kind of news coverage defies logic and belief.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 10:14
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CW247 View Post
A kid has died and many others injured in a deliberate hit and run (attempted murder) outside an Essex school. There was an attempted hit and run style murder in Brighton over the weekend. Why these stories aren't receiving the same kind of news coverage defies logic and belief.
Indeed it does. I suppose the cynic in me says that London Bridge is in London, and therefore carries a higher tariff than someone being killed anywhere else. More worryingly, the London Bridge incident involved a Muslim, whereas seemingly the Essex incident was just an ordinary (non Muslim) @rsehole. Don't know about the Brighton event.

I was struggling to understand why the London Bridge attack resulted in a suspension of general election campaigning, whereas, I'd wager, if two people had been stabbed in Walthamstow it would have figured in the news, but campaigning continue as though nothing happened.

It perhaps just highlights the latent racism / religious prejudice that exists not far below the psyche in our society.
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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 10:26
  #117 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Indeed it does. I suppose the cynic in me says that London Bridge is in London, and therefore carries a higher tariff than someone being killed anywhere else. More worryingly, the London Bridge incident involved a Muslim, whereas seemingly the Essex incident was just an ordinary (non Muslim) @rsehole. Don't know about the Brighton event.

I was struggling to understand why the London Bridge attack resulted in a suspension of general election campaigning, whereas, I'd wager, if two people had been stabbed in Walthamstow it would have figured in the news, but campaigning continue as though nothing happened.

It perhaps just highlights the latent racism / religious prejudice that exists not far below the psyche in our society.
That, along with other incidents having no political exploitation or capital potential for Boris .....

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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 10:34
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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The media will always attempt to link an incident back to a shocking event in the past. (London Bridge strikes a chord more than the fishmongers hall where the incident started. That way they can leverage previous emotions from their audience.

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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 11:50
  #119 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
That, along with other incidents having no political exploitation or capital potential for Boris .....
To be fair it was a terrorist incident and had to be dealt with, that then does bring it into the realms of the election as people want to know how their future leaders will deal with such things and ALL sides have played the political blame game and explotation card, heck even ISIS has.

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Old 3rd Dec 2019, 12:28
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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“The “lock ’em up & throw away the key” battle cry may suit a panicked politician in the middle of a general election campaign, but it isn’t going to keep us safe from another Usman Khan”

The above quote is taken from the author's Twitter feed. Now I know some might be surprised who said the above, others not.

Yes it is one of those people who some consider more knowledgeable and intelligent than the rest of us ordinary folk. Not forgetting that if he had been locked up, 2 people would be alive today.

Diane Abbott. The shadow Home Secretary.
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