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Hope everyone near London Bridge are ok, shots fired

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Hope everyone near London Bridge are ok, shots fired

Old 30th Nov 2019, 15:45
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by charliegolf View Post
Stand by for hand wringing over the deaths, and the IPCC and others second-guessing the guys and gals on the ground.

CG
I wonder if anything will be heard from Anthony Charles Lynton BlaIr and Alastair Campbell, at whose door a great deal of responsibility for Islamic terrorists' long term perception of Britain's legitimacy as a target for their dreadful activities could perhaps well be laid.

Jack
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 16:32
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Just one small problem here.....he was British. Unless by deportation you mean putting him on a train at Euston for Stoke-on-Trent that is ?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...stock-exchange
Disturbing reading KnC, but very enlightening nevertheless. By deportation I do mean back to his country of origin, or that of his immediate family. The Kashmir is a lovely place I'm led to believe.

Time to get tough.
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 16:49
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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For "Parole Board" - read - handling a terrorist from sentencing onwards.

Islamic Terrorists and those paying lip service to religion as a cause of their inhuman/criminal behavior are not rehabilitatable.
Maybe one or two in a thousand but that's not worth expending the effort and there is never a guarantee.
Assume, once a terrorist, always a terrorist and put them away on conviction, without any recourse to future leniency modifications - Hard Time.
(Hard Labour would be fitting as well)

There are only two real standing Terrorist Alerts needed in this time we find ourselves in:

"Terrorism is a possibility".
or
"Terrorism is imminent".

If you ever have to cut through the murk of PCism, it's for terrorists.

Complacency and short memories, on our part, are terrorist's tools.

Anyone soft on the issue should not be anywhere in the justice system.
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 17:05
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
The bizarre thing with this murderer was that he had been convicted of a terrorist offence, had his sentence reduced, and when automatically released on licence he was fitted with a GPS tracker, and only permitted to stay in an approved location in Stafford. Somehow, a man still serving a sentence (being on licence is still serving a sentence), who was supposedly being tracked and his movements under strict control, managed to arm himself with at least one large knife, make a replica bomb vest, travel to London, attend an event for offenders (where, I would have assumed there would have been some rudimentary ID checks and security) and then go on a killing spree.

Yet, we are told, this attack was "unexpected". I accept that the police and security services are under-funded and under-resourced, but WTF is the point of fitting a man, known to be an Islamic extremist, with a GPS tag, putting geographic restrictions on where he can go, and then letting him travel, without any checks, to an event in London, right next to a location where a similar terrorist attack has taken place?

My guess is that the GPS tags may be just for show, and that whatever contractor running them probably doesn't give a shit about doing their job properly, as long as they carry on getting paid. Two people are now dead, and more seriously injured, partly because the system that was supposed to control the movements of an offender released under licence seems to have completely failed.

Again, they aren't GPS trackers. They simply indicate if the subject strays too far from the base unit as a means of monitoring a curfew.

Last edited by Tashengurt; 30th Nov 2019 at 21:29.
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 17:22
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tashengurt View Post
Again, they aren't GPS trackers. They simple indicate if the subject strays too far from the base unit as a means of monitoring a curfew.
Better tell the BBC, then, as they are reporting this (from this news article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50615928 ):

Khan was living in Stafford and wearing a GPS police tag when he launched his attack on Friday, in which a man and a woman were killed and three others were injured.
In addition, the police (Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu) are now reporting that the murderer was wearing the replica explosive vest at the prisoner rehabilitation conference where he went on the rampage:

Attacker wore hoax explosive vest at conference

Turning to updates on the attacker, Mr Basu says police believe Khan was wearing the hoax explosive vest while attending the prisoner rehabilitation conference at Fishmongers' Hall.He said: "We know this attacker was attending an event called Learning Together and some of those present confronted this attacker to try and stop him."Responding to a question from a reporter, Mr Basu adds "From start to finish this incident took very few minutes and yes, we believe he was wearing the vest at the time."
Other reports are stating that he had the knives (one of which was taken from him by a British Transport Police officer in civvies) taped to his hands. One has to ask how he managed to get into a conference that was, presumably, full of offenders, wearing a hoax explosive vest and carrying a couple of pretty large knives.
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 21:29
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
For "Parole Board" - read - handling a terrorist from sentencing onwards.

Islamic Terrorists and those paying lip service to religion as a cause of their inhuman/criminal behavior are not rehabilitatable.
Maybe one or two in a thousand but that's not worth expending the effort and there is never a guarantee.
Assume, once a terrorist, always a terrorist and put them away on conviction, without any recourse to future leniency modifications - Hard Time.
(Hard Labour would be fitting as well)

There are only two real standing Terrorist Alerts needed in this time we find ourselves in:

"Terrorism is a possibility".
or
"Terrorism is imminent".

If you ever have to cut through the murk of PCism, it's for terrorists.

Complacency and short memories, on our part, are terrorist's tools.

Anyone soft on the issue should not be anywhere in the justice system.
What utter, utter bollack5!
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 21:36
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tashengurt View Post
Again, they aren't GPS trackers. They simply indicate if the subject strays too far from the base unit as a means of monitoring a curfew.
Not correct.
They can also let the monitoring station know if the wearer has go into an excluded area or leave an area in which you are meant to stay.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...S_handbook.pdf
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 21:52
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 747 jock View Post
Not correct.
They can also let the monitoring station know if the wearer has go into an excluded area or leave an area in which you are meant to stay.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...S_handbook.pdf
According to that they can also continuously monitor location.
Not too proud to admit that's all news to me. I've only ever known them to be used to monitor curfews.
I stand corrected, perhaps that indicates why this venue was attacked. The only way to get to a central London venue without triggering an alarm?
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 23:36
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by woptb View Post


What utter, utter bollack5!
Care to expand on that?

I get that you disagree, would be interested to hear why.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 00:45
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Sadly, releasing people who are obviously likely to commit further violence is far to common - even on this side of the pond. This just happens to be the 10 year anniversary of a known, convicted felon, released on bail after being arrested for another felony, walking into a coffee shop in Lakewood (near Tacoma) and murdering four police officers who were enjoying a morning coffee before going on duty.
A week ago, a known felon, with a rap sheet longer than my arm, was released on his own recognizance () then proceeded to steal a pickup while the owner was fueling it (and with his dog still inside). He was subsequently shot and killed by police when he used the stolen truck as a weapon to attack the police while resisting arrest (the dog was recovered, hungry and thirsty, but otherwise unharmed).
The judiciary has sadly adopted something of a 'catch and release' program for criminals in this area.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 06:49
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Disturbing reading KnC, but very enlightening nevertheless. By deportation I do mean back to his country of origin, or that of his immediate family.
And under what internationally agreed mechanism/protocol do you intend to deport a British Citizen to e.g. the Kashmir?
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 07:20
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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From the Secret Barrister website -


No time can be afforded in 2019 to respect the dead. Not when there’s an election at stake,
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 08:27
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Well. Quelle surprise! This thread has attracted some froth, has it not?
We have a big spread of views and opinions, from "kill them all (guilty or presumed to be guilty in the future) to "deport them all, UK citizen or not".
Let's look at a few of the points raised in no particular order:
the informative link to the tag brochure provided by jock747 has to be suspect. Any literature that contains the paragraph on page 4 that says " The tag sends signals to a satellite 24 hours a day. " can be written off. It doesn't happen! Anyway, if the tag was being used to constantly track the wearer's whereabouts, why does it take the police days to track them down when bail conditions are breached and there is a need to arrest? Why is there a need to install a Home Beacon? Simple; if the crim has been sentenced to curfew conditions and the curfew is broken, the tag will go out of range of the Home Beacon, the Beacon will notify the monitoring authority. What this leaflet implies is that a tag will need to have 2 radio installations built in; A mobile phone for contact to the monitoring centre, a GPS receiver and a huge Transmitter, capable of sending imaginary signals to an imaginary satellite. I have never worked with GPS satellites but I would imagine the only signals they would receive would be engineering commands and they would not want to be bothered by thousands of simultaneous position reports being beamed up the UK's criminals. (Plus the potential millions from other countries). Don't forget, the UK government doesn't actually own any GPS satellites.
By the way, Jock, I think you may have misread the leaflet when you refer to the tag letting the authorities know when the wearer enters an exclusion zone. The tag actually lets the offender know, not the authorities. And that is a simple process for a device that includes GPS. The tag can work out when the device is within a set of bounds, pre-programmed into the device.
Enough of that. I see questions re "how did he get to London, from Stafford, while wearing a tag?" Well, according to the Met Police, he had sought and obtained permission to travel for that conference.
Finally, something nobody has mentioned yet; prior to and after his release on parole, he had sought help from the authorities to get himself weaned off this radicalisation mind set. And the authorities said no. Couldn't be done:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...icalise-lawyer
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 08:39
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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May I salute the cops who ended this madness.
My gratitude goes to the policeman who had to double-tap this scrote.
He did not go to work to end a life. Job well done sir.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 09:10
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Well. Quelle surprise! This thread has attracted some froth, has it not?
We have a big spread of views and opinions, from "kill them all (guilty or presumed to be guilty in the future) to "deport them all, UK citizen or not".
Let's look at a few of the points raised in no particular order:
the informative link to the tag brochure provided by jock747 has to be suspect. Any literature that contains the paragraph on page 4 that says " The tag sends signals to a satellite 24 hours a day. " can be written off. It doesn't happen! Anyway, if the tag was being used to constantly track the wearer's whereabouts, why does it take the police days to track them down when bail conditions are breached and there is a need to arrest? Why is there a need to install a Home Beacon? Simple; if the crim has been sentenced to curfew conditions and the curfew is broken, the tag will go out of range of the Home Beacon, the Beacon will notify the monitoring authority. What this leaflet implies is that a tag will need to have 2 radio installations built in; A mobile phone for contact to the monitoring centre, a GPS receiver and a huge Transmitter, capable of sending imaginary signals to an imaginary satellite. I have never worked with GPS satellites but I would imagine the only signals they would receive would be engineering commands and they would not want to be bothered by thousands of simultaneous position reports being beamed up the UK's criminals. (Plus the potential millions from other countries). Don't forget, the UK government doesn't actually own any GPS satellites.
By the way, Jock, I think you may have misread the leaflet when you refer to the tag letting the authorities know when the wearer enters an exclusion zone. The tag actually lets the offender know, not the authorities. And that is a simple process for a device that includes GPS. The tag can work out when the device is within a set of bounds, pre-programmed into the device.
Enough of that. I see questions re "how did he get to London, from Stafford, while wearing a tag?" Well, according to the Met Police, he had sought and obtained permission to travel for that conference.
Finally, something nobody has mentioned yet; prior to and after his release on parole, he had sought help from the authorities to get himself weaned off this radicalisation mind set. And the authorities said no. Couldn't be done:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...icalise-lawyer
My guess is that the tag does pretty much what my car does, and the one before that, and what pretty much every 'phone does. It will get a GPS fix whenever it can, just like a 'phone. The tag will then use it's SIM card and data link (again just like a 'phone, or many modern cars) to periodically send position data, and possibly other data, like orientation, perhaps, anti-tamper and battery status etc, back to a central server. All the heavy lifting, like geo-bounding, won't be done by the tag, most probably, but by the central server database, so if a tag reports it's out of a defined area, the server will signal to the tag to sound a warning, and then perhaps an alarm, that's relayed on to the police or probation service.

If I turn on my 'phone, I can find out where my car is, what it's status is (doors locked or unlocked, windows open or closed, and loads of other stuff) within a minute. There's no reason at all why a GPS tag shouldn't be able to do exactly the same, after all, pretty much every 'phone on the market does this all the time.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 09:32
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Corbyn now states that terrorists "should not necessarily" serve their full term in prison.

I suppose we shouldn't have expected anything else from an unabashed terrorist sympathiser.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 10:01
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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One detail that doesn’t seem to add up:
(1) Police state they are not looking for anyone else.
(2) Witnesses state attacker had knives taped to his hands.

So did he:
(1) Travel to the event with knives already taped on, so accomplice at home, and how do you travel with knives taped on your hands?
(2) Get knives taped on at event, so accomplice with him.

.......suppose he could have just stopped a passer by and asked them to tape the knives on?
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 10:22
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tashengurt View Post
According to that they can also continuously monitor location.
Not too proud to admit that's all news to me. I've only ever known them to be used to monitor curfews.
I stand corrected, perhaps that indicates why this venue was attacked. The only way to get to a central London venue without triggering an alarm?
Electronic tagging has been in use in the UK for around 20 years. AFAIK it relies on the tag being within transmit/receive range of a base station at the wearer's location.

GPS tagging is much more recent (that MoJ handbook is dated 2016) and, as the name suggests, monitors the wearer's location continuously. Usage is gradually being rolled out across the UK.

Electronic GPS tags to track thousands of criminals in England and Wales

It's not clear (to me at least) from the media reports which type of tag the attacker was wearing, unless anyone can clarify ?
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 10:30
  #79 (permalink)  
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My gratitude goes to the policeman who had to double-tap this scrote.
He did not go to work to end a life. Job well done sir.
Seconded.

As a former contributor to this board used to say on occasion;

"Some People just need killing!"

RGBrock1; You still around?
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 10:32
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Electronic tagging has been in use in the UK for around 20 years. AFAIK it relies on the tag being within transmit/receive range of a base station at the wearer's location.

GPS tagging is much more recent (that MoJ handbook is dated 2016) and, as the name suggests, monitors the wearer's location continuously. Usage is gradually being rolled out across the UK.

Electronic GPS tags to track thousands of criminals in England and Wales

It's not clear (to me at least) from the media reports which type of tag the attacker was wearing, unless anyone can clarify ?
The only GPS tagging I was aware of was on a voluntary basis for domestic violence perpetrators.
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