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Scruffy PM at Cenotaph today

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Scruffy PM at Cenotaph today

Old 10th Nov 2019, 20:36
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Very few shops have been selling poppies this year. I can remember when almost every shop in the High Street had a box by the till.
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Old 10th Nov 2019, 21:57
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I attended the Cenotaph today, as I have done every year for about 13 years.
When I watched the BBC version after I got home, I too was struck by Johnson's appearance plus the fact he seems unable to even walk properly. Compare his dress to those of the 70 & 80 year olds I paraded with. Well, there was actually no comparison.
It was the same at the Albert Hall last night, a scruffy buffoon with a moronic half grin on his face most of the time.
Sad to say but when Corbyn laid his wreath there was a distinct booing from some of those at the front (missing from the BBC sound track). I don't think that will happen again next year as out of the 10,000 on parade, those I spoke with all said the same thing "I don't like the man but there is a time and place".
Now I feel a snottygram to the RBL coming on. Both yesterday evening's service and today's BBC commentary shared one glaring error. They both gave the impression that "there was a war which ended in 1945, one man went to Korea and then it was all Iraq and Afghanistan. Nothing in between! It is the same every year. Someone needs to remind them of Malaya, Palestine, Korea, Kenya, Suez, Jordan, Borneo, Belize, Cyprus, Kuwait, Oman, Brunei, Aden, N. Ireland, Falklands, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Macedonia, Kosovo. I even did 5 months on the border of newly independent (and renamed) Botswana with Rhodesia in 1967 and I had mates doing the same duties in Zambia at the same time.British forces were involved to some extent in each of them post 1945. 1969 was a memorable year; in June or July that year the Army was telling us that this was the first time we had not been fighting someone, somewhere for 120 odd years. That very quickly all went wrong.
Still, having said all that, I shall no doubt be there again next year (if only I can get my legs to recover in time!)
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Old 10th Nov 2019, 22:37
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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At risk of causing offence. I never watch the coverage. I never go to church. I do however contribute to the collections without wearing the poppy. In my mind most of the population of the UK do not have any connection with the military and do not have any concept of the military ethos. The military is an anathema to the vast majority of the population. I just have a private moment of remembrance then a " but for the grace of god" moment and move on. That said I served for over 10 years in the British Military and 2 years in a Colonial Force.
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Old 10th Nov 2019, 23:01
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Last year, Corbyn was rightly criticised for his inappropriate appearance,
Though he could have been wearing a leopard skin thong and flip flops as far as we know for the remembrance at the Albert Hall, because he didn't turn up.. so much for respect.
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Old 10th Nov 2019, 23:39
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Though he could have been wearing a leopard skin thong and flip flops as far as we know for the remembrance at the Albert Hall, because he didn't turn up.. so much for respect.
Even the Sun could only manage a bit of lukewarm outrage at Corbyn visiting flood victims and emergency workers in Yorkshire instead of being at the RAH:

"Dozens of viewers [sic] were left furious after Jeremy Corbyn failed to attend the service [sic]".
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 00:19
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect that may well be a reason. It seems that a fair few people walk around without cash now, especially at places like supermarkets, where the use of cards is pretty much universal. Perhaps the British Legion needs to adapt and introduce contactless payment systems for the volunteers who are out and about collecting. I suspect they may even get larger individual donations if they were to do this.
I was talking to the lady who organises poppy sales in our local town. She is elderly and certainly not the stereotype of someone who is up to date with phones etc. She said the thought it was ridiculous that RBL havent got organised with cashless payments, using contactless cards or phones to pay, but she wasn't surprised as, she said, "it's run by a load of old gits who are all behind the times!" (her words, not mine!).

If people selling the Big Issue and even street buskers are now taking card and phone payments, it ought to be possible for RBL to get this sorted before next year.

Going back to the OP I never thought I'd see the day when Boris was shown up by Corbyn, but that was definitely the case at the Cenotaph today.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 06:30
  #27 (permalink)  
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There's a time and a place for everything and everybody. The service at the Cenotaph is one such example and the dress code should be a given.

Likewise at similar events across the UK however, whilst there are obviously those who dress for the event, many don't . Does this mean that people who choose to remember in their own way are to be regarded as being disrespectful ? ......... NO.

I don't wear a poppy either, haven't done for years but always contribute and, like millions I would suggest, reflect privately and quietly.

Plus on the day both parties chose to announce a package of measures for the Armed Forces.......not before, or after, but on the emotive day. Not that these announcements could even remotely be viewed as a bit of political exploitation of course...

The lack of poppies has been mentioned. What hasn't been mentioned is the very recent adornment of poppies on lampposts, telegraph poles, in fact anywhere they can be located .......such displays need no clarification as to what they represent......... and why.

Incidentally, the slip road from the A38, to the A513 and thereafter from the mini roundabout turning left was gridlocked yesterday morning......

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 11th Nov 2019 at 07:23.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 07:14
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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........... I can remember when almost every shop in the High Street had a box by the till.
Probably fed up with them getting stolen ?

NZ wears sells / wears poppies on Anzac Day, April 25th. the local equivalent, which is getting more and more attended by "younger generations", often wearing Grandads medals. I wore my poppy today anyway - and was asked why ! I told them.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 08:48
  #29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Douglas Bahada View Post
. In my mind most of the population of the UK do not have any connection with the military .
With the contraction of the military their presence, day to day, and public awareness of them is low. There are indeed many whose forebears were not involved in WW2. Of my father's forebears none were involved in WW1 and as a merchant seaman he was the only one of his generation involved in WW2.

On my maternal side only my mother was not involved in WW2, all her uncles and father were in WW1.

Taking my maternal thread, there has been someone in the military from 1898 until today.

A genealogical lottery.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 08:56
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I was in Waitrose this afternoon - in the check-out queue I looked to see how many were wearing poppies - there were none - not a single one and I thought; "You F*ckers". I have seen so few being worn this year generally when out and about.
That is very true, the wearing of poppies is becoming less and less prevalent every year. The media peddles picture of pretty well the entire population wearing poppies, you'd think there was an edict within our broadcast media that everyone appearing in front of the camera must wear one, even if some of them are so small you need a 50" screen to see them, however in reality there is a minority that do.

When it comes to the two minutes silences (we don't need two, there should be one - on the 11th November at 11:00 - that should be a public holiday with all shops shut by law) the media would have you believe the whole country stops; it doesn't. The people who want to do, the people who feel they ought to through pressure of being where they are at the time (such as in a supermarket) do. The rest carry on as normal.

I have absolutely no problem with people who buy poppies, or those who don't; people who want to pause for 2 minutes, or those who don't. We live in a reasonably free country, and everyone should be allowed to behave as they wish, without being frowned upon by one "side" or the other.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 08:57
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Depends where people live as to how much contact they have with our armed forces. Where we live we have loads of military personnel, with some villages that have practically doubled in size in recent years, as the army have moved back to the UK from Germany. We also have strong reminders of WW1, from large regimental badges carved into the side of chalk downland to the recent closure of one of our earliest airfields, Old Sarum.

It's hard for people here not to feel a strong connection to the armed forces, as many will have a direct connection, either through family, or maybe because their business depends on them.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 10:54
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Off topic, I didn't know Old Sarum airfield had closed, I visited the Boscombe Down Aviation Collection (Highly recommended) a few months ago and there seemed to be an active flight school there.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 11:15
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by k3k3 View Post
Off topic, I didn't know Old Sarum airfield had closed, I visited the Boscombe Down Aviation Collection (Highly recommended) a few months ago and there seemed to be an active flight school there.
It's been struggling for a long time, but finally closed about a week or so ago: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-50247960
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 11:25
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Good old BBC, with their left wing bias, saved BJ's blushes this morning. In an article about today being Armistice Day and the election focusing on The Forces, at around 7.30 and 8.30, they showed a short clip from the Cenotaph, with BJ laying his wreath, only it was from his time as Foreign Secretary!
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 22:06
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post

I don't wear a poppy either, haven't done for years but always contribute and, like millions I would suggest, reflect privately and quietly.
Me too, I donít wear a poppy but do contribute. I reflect quietly at my fatherís graveside where I place one of those wooden crosses with a poppy on it.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 23:59
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
I was talking to the lady who organises poppy sales in our local town. She is elderly and certainly not the stereotype of someone who is up to date with phones etc. She said the thought it was ridiculous that RBL havent got organised with cashless payments, using contactless cards or phones to pay, but she wasn't surprised as, she said, "it's run by a load of old gits who are all behind the times!" (her words, not mine!).

If people selling the Big Issue and even street buskers are now taking card and phone payments, it ought to be possible for RBL to get this sorted before next year. .
Yes indeed , needs to be addressed if sales are to increase . At the stall I approached , the lovely old ladies had no change to give ; " not allowed to hold a float" . Luckily I found some coins at the bottom of my bag and managed to pay for mine .

Another quirk--she said " we are not allowed to touch the cash ; it has to be deposited straight into the box " . I didn't query the reasoning behind that one . Maybe someone can enlighten .
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 00:38
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Talking of change, when I bought a couple of poppies for Mrs TTN and myself at the supermarket petrol station till I stuffed a fiver into the tin. The chap said "I could have given you change from the till - they are only £1 each" I told him I thought that they were not priced, but people could donate what they could afford, be it 10p or £100. Was I wrong? I never knew that there was any "fixed price" for a poppy.
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 00:55
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post
Most people couldn't give a toss what coat or tie a politician wears to place a wreath.
I was thinking more about my uncle, lost in a DC3 in 1944...

Get a life...
With the greatest respect for your late Uncle, may I just point out that Michael Foot (remember him) got absolutely crucified by the press for his appearance at the cenotaph. The Sun and Mail had a field day. Strange how BJ is not receiving the same level of scorn.

From Wiki

When Foot became leader, the Conservative politician Kenneth Baker commented: "Labour was led by Dixon of Dock Green under Jim Callaghan. Now it is led by Worzel Gummidge."[3] Foot's nickname in the press gradually became "Worzel Gummidge",[26] or "Worzel".[4] This became particularly common after Remembrance Day 1981, when he attended the Cenotaph observance wearing a donkey jacket.[2] After his tenure as leader, Foot would be "depicted as a scarecrow on ITVís satirical puppet show Spitting Image."[3]

The BBC have quite rightly been torn to shreds over their use of older footage showing BJ laying a wreath the right way up. It was no error. BBC left wing? My arris!!
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 08:43
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Mum worked for a short time in a munitions factory but apart from that none of my family were involved in either war.
I do wear a poppy out of respect for our church Remembrance Day service, which is where I feel the 2 minute silence really belongs. I found myself in Waitrose yesterday morning and saw a notice saying they were having a silence at 11am - by which time I was home again and never thought any more of it, there need only be one 2 minutes.
I still think of Remembrance Day being about the WW1 and WW2 and the current practice of tagging on later conflicts, some of which I didn't agree with, is weakening its significance.
Not knowing that £1 is the assumed cost, I put a 2 pound coin in the tin and felt ashamed that I hadn't given enough..
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 09:07
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Re Poppy Contributions: I have, in years past, been a collector for the Poppy appeal, so I can comment on the 3 posts above. The old lady was spot on when saying they do not hold a float. Similarly, she was right when she explained they are not allowed to touch the cash. Once that cash goes into the collection "tin" it belongs to the RBL. When tins are full, a replacement is provided while one of the local RBL organisers will take away the full one. These are often held at a secure location until there is a decent number and they are then opened and the contents counted. The counting serves a couple of uses (in addition to the obvious accounting); it allows individual collectors to know how well they have done and receive appropriate pats on the head, it helps the organisers figure out which areas are not productive and perhaps not worth manning next year. The cash is then taken to a bank. In my area, taking them to a bank involved delivering to the bank via the underground tradesman's entrance (ie out of public view) and usually needed a suitable trolley to move the tins from the car to the bank, they are so heavy.
As for prices, there are officially no prices, people are encouraged to give what they fell like giving. However, some one off type items can be priced, items such as the small enamel badges which are sought after but provided in limited numbers. And contributions don't need to be in coin. I remember very well being somewhat shocked when a gentleman stuffed 4 £20 notes into my tin. I couldn't hep commenting on his generosity and he explained he had 4 relatives still serving so it was one note per relative.
As for the old lady who thinks she knows better; I wonder if the banks that operate the card swiping terminals accept inputs such as 10p? And who pays the mobile phone bill for these terminals and for the terminals themselves? The RBL would have to pay that and this detracts from the net take. Why do that when they can have volunteers doing it for nothing?
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