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Sectarianism in Glasgow

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Sectarianism in Glasgow

Old 31st Aug 2019, 07:06
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Sectarianism in Glasgow

I thought they reserved this stuff for Celtic-Rangers matches these days? Still, keeps their minds off Brexit.....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...sh-unity-march

Riot police out in Glasgow as Irish unity march sparks disorder




Riot police, mounted officers, a force helicopter and dog units are being used in Glasgow after protesters against an Irish unity march sparked “significant disorder”.

Police said the planned march through the city’s Govan area, organised by the James Connolly Republican Flute Band, was met by hundreds of “disruptive” counter-demonstrators at about 7pm. Witnesses reported smoke bombs being used. The force said this had led to “significant disorder” around Govan Road, which was blocked by officers.

Chief Superintendent Mark Hargreaves said: “Police Scotland has a duty to facilitate processions and any peaceful protest, but this kind of behaviour by persons demonstrating against the parade is utterly unacceptable. It is extremely disappointing to see people acting in this fashion, causing fear and alarm to members of the public as well as putting many people at risk.

A range of policing resources are in place as part of a multi-agency response. Specialist public order officers in full protective equipment, the mounted section, air support and dog units have been deployed, and we are using proportionate tactics to de-escalate the situation as quickly and safely as possible.

“Police Scotland will undertake a thorough and robust enquiry, and take any necessary action against those found to have been causing disruption.”

Glasgow City Council said: “Due to an ongoing police incident, Govan Road is blocked between Golspie Street and Elder Street. Drivers are advised to avoid the area if possible.”

The council
calling the events in Govan “unacceptable” and saying there had been too many similar incidents over the past year. It continued: “The council is clear that the law expects it to facilitate public processions; including those that some people oppose or find offensive. However, this cannot continue to be at the expense of the overwhelming majority of Glaswegians, who want nothing to do with these marches, or counter-protests.

“The city needs and wants fewer marches. We are prepared to consider any action that will protect communities from morons intent on bringing mayhem to the streets of our city.”
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 07:55
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Disappointing, but frankly not surprising. Absolutely not wishing to make this a thread related to Brexit; and I really doubt the trouble was related in any way to the "B" word.

Liverpool is / was similarly very divided along religious lines, hopefully there won't be trouble there as some sort of copy-cat behaviour.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 08:00
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Let's hope that the police remembered to fuel up the helicopter.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 08:21
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EM

That is a post in disappointingly poor taste
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 08:50
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I lived in Scotland for a few years and used to go to NI a fair bit. The sectarian divide in some parts of Scotland, particularly around Glasgow, always struck me as far more pronounced than in many places in NI. There was the safety valve of the Celtic/Rangers matches that acted as a focus for some of it, but there were also the same sort of divisions elsewhere, too. Bars were divided very much along Catholic/Protestant lines, with some definitely being no-go areas for those who might be perceived as being from the wrong tribe. Locals seemed to have an uncanny knack for spotting someone who was out of place, too. Not just the "are you staring at me, Jimmy?" type, either. I remember going into one bar I'd never been in before and being told by the barman that they didn't serve leftfooters. In other bars, collecting tins for NORAID were a pretty common sight, and a covert way of raising funds for the PIRA.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 08:50
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Yes, I though that too.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 10:25
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I grew up in Glasgow in the 50s and went to school there up to age 12. As a Roman Catholic I naturally attended a Catholic school (an excellent Jesuit one, as it happened) and sectarianism was alive and well. Support for Glasgow Celtic was almost compulsory at school, although then, as now, I had no interest in football, so I only pretended to be a Celtic supporter to lead a quiet life. The Orange Order was very strong in Glasgow, with huge Orange walks holding up the traffic for hours, it seemed, during the marching season. I often used to wonder if the orange and green livery on the Glasgow Corporation buses and trams was chosen to appease both communities. Moving to England in 1959 was a revelation, where I found that nobody cared what religion I was, if they even knew.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 10:27
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I was born and brought up in Glasgow and lived there for many years before moving south for work reasons.

The sectarian divides you appear to have experienced are mainly tribal, I knew people on both sides and most had never even been in a church or chapel and Sunday mornings were for playing football etc. Very little to do with any religion.

I see the same tribal divisions in England, just different names for the tribes.who want to play the 'we won' game, whether it was a battle 300 years ago or a referendum 3 years ago.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 10:34
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I see the same tribal divisions in England, just different names for the tribes.who want to play the 'we won' game, whether it was a battle 300 years ago or a referendum 3 years ago.
That's the really sad thing. Footie tribalism has been a part of everyday life for a segment of the population (I often refer to them a Neanderthal man, probably rather unkindly to Neaderthals); the clear leave / remain divide that is becoming more entrenched in society (not just among those people who frequent Jet Blast) is most regrettable, and could so easily have been avoided. It will likely blight the UK for a generation at least.

I fear what we saw in Glasgow last night could be but a foretaste of why might happen were NI to vote to join the Irish Republic at some time in the future.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 10:49
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Going back to the Glasgow event, add the Brexit remain or leave issues on top of the stay or leave the UK issues and it gets complicated. My family has suffered division from sectarian divides in the past and now, brexit divides and indy divides. It makes family visits interesting, so far no violence.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 12:53
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Frankie Boyle nailed it with his derisive explanation of the Al Qaeda burning car attack on Glasgow Airport: “Who are these guys trying to bring religious violence to Glasgow? We’ve been doing this for 500 years. Al Qaeda doesn’t even have a football team!”
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 13:11
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 14:35
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If this bunch of flutes were in anyway mature they wouldn’t have marched down the most pro-union street in Glasgow where Rangers call their home.

It’s the exact same thing that the Orange order do in NI. March through Nationalist areas in a deliberate two fingers to them. Both acts are contemptible and just shows what kind of animals are in charge. The only victims in it all are the police.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 16:37
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Secterianisn in Glasgow..

Is nothing new

Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I fear what we saw in Glasgow last night could be but a foretaste of why might happen were NI to vote to join the Irish Republic at some time in the future.
They might want to try it but they won't have the protection they've had thus far. In any case they are a minority of bigots. I've never heard of terrorists trying to overturn an independence vote and stay a colony. They could just flee and return from whence their ancestors came: Scotland.

But that may not go so well if Scotland decides to leave the UK. Where would they go then?
​​​​​​
Their day is past.

Last edited by Steepclimb; 31st Aug 2019 at 16:50.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 20:05
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Where would they go then? It was you who made the moronic proposal of deporting much of the NI population against their will. You tell us!

n.b. The marchers who prompted this thread were Irish Republican bigots not Unionist ones: do try to keep up.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 20:18
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
The sectarian divides you appear to have experienced are mainly tribal, I knew people on both sides and most had never even been in a church or chapel and Sunday mornings were for playing football etc. Very little to do with any religion.
Funnily enough, I was thinking just the other day, that Celtic are out of the champions league, and in the euro league, along with Rangers. Those games are played on a Thursday, meaning their Scottish league games will have to be played on a Sunday. How many of their highly religious supporters will forgo the games to attend church?
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 20:30
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Originally Posted by ShotOne View Post
Where would they go then? It was you who made the moronic proposal of deporting much of the NI population against their will. You tell us!

n.b. The marchers who prompted this thread were Irish Republican bigots not Unionist ones: do try to keep up.
Now where did you get the the notion of that I support the suggestion of the 'deportation' of much of the the population of Northern Ireland? Ignoring the fact that all of them are in fact officially Irish Citizens whether they like it or not and simply cannot be deported. It would be their choice. No one is going to be deported. You do understand that Ireland these days is a liberal, relaxed and multi cultural country with a gay, half Indian PM? They don't even bloody deport people who need to be deported. A failing shared with the British.

If they leave it'll be there own choice.

NI on the other hand is a bit of an imperial anomaly.

I absolutely agree the marchers are Irish Republican bigots, out to cause trouble. I utterly detest them and all they stand for. They succeeded by riling their Orange cousins. All sides being Scottish of course.

Meanwhile in NI the Orange men go out of the way to antagonise the conquered Irish.

I merely pointed out the dilemma of the loyalist bigot in the event of both an exit from the UK by the Scots and finally the Irish.

Personally I have always felt that if what is NI remained part of an independent Ireland it would have obviated the worst excesses of the Priests. A proper dominion. Their bigotry prevented that.

​​​​​
But I can't change history or the future. Just comment on it.

Pointless really.



Last edited by Steepclimb; 31st Aug 2019 at 20:48.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 21:12
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Why doesn't this sort of thing go on in Edinburgh ?
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 21:55
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If Steepclimb’s protocol (Just flee and return from whence their ancestors came) were universally applied, what proportion (if any) of people could stay put? That’s the entire population of USA and Canada apart from native Americans out for starters.

You are right to point out that the appalling theological abuse in Ireland could and should have been avoided. NI didn’t join because most of the population firmly considered themselves British. Not because they were bigots. The fact you would frame it so betrays a certain narrowness of outlook, one might even say bigotry, on your part.

Last edited by ShotOne; 31st Aug 2019 at 22:10.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 00:55
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Funnily enough, I was thinking just the other day, that Celtic are out of the champions league, and in the euro league, along with Rangers. Those games are played on a Thursday, meaning their Scottish league games will have to be played on a Sunday. How many of their highly religious supporters will forgo the games to attend church?
You can go to 6pm Mass on Saturday, or even 9am Mass on Sunday and still make the match.
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