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Food Banks?

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Food Banks?

Old 29th Aug 2019, 20:26
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
How come on TV you see people not claiming the old age pensions.
Never seen that.
I claim mine; I also have a bus pass but I've never used it because we live so far from the nearest bus route we need to use the car to get to the bus stop.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 20:42
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
I also have a bus pass but I've never used it because we live so far from the nearest bus route we need to use the car to get to the bus stop.
I know someone who used her bus pass to get to business meetings with clients.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 21:46
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Never seen that.
I claim mine; I also have a bus pass but I've never used it because we live so far from the nearest bus route we need to use the car to get to the bus stop.
So you cost people money for something you never use yet Food banks cost nothing.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 00:15
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Every society has its fair share of under achievers (a very subjective term, I would point out).

A very small percentage of those are not only unemployed; they are unemployable.
That may be because of serious physical or mental constraints. They may be achieving to the full limit of those constraints.
They constitute a relatively fixed percentage at the bottom of the employment list and western society seems happy enough to support those people to a modest level of comfort.

The next group are those genuinely constrained by lack of suitable employment opportunities. This group forms the variable part of the unemployment rate.
It is worth remembering that the variable part of the unemployment rate is (or should be) under the control of government.
In fact it is controlled and manipulated by the combined efforts of government and industry, at least until they lose control or find themselves unable to manipulate.
Neither government nor industry wants either very high or very low unemployment rates.
Those in this group have very little control over their destiny other than to try to get out of the group altogether by re-employment, if they can.
And yet we are quite happy to pillory them. "Bl..dy dole bludgers". Even though they are, by and large, unable to do anything about their predicament.

The last group are those constrained by capability or rather the lack thereof. That includes lack of education, lack of motivation, lack of capability to compete.
This group also forms a relatively fixed percentage near the bottom of the employability scale.. They are not going away any time soon.
This group we also seem to want to pillory. Possibly, starve to death.

It has long been my contention that in (a civilised) society there are those that you are better off just carrying.
Their presence in the workforce is disruptive, inefficient and counter-productive. This is this last group.

Before you expound on "why don't the bar stewards just get a job", take a good look at a few of them and ask yourself whether you would like them working for you or along side you.
It is the very same reason that the army don't want them inducted through national service.
So unless you really want them to starve to death, stop whingeing about having to carry them.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 11:29
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
So you cost people money for something you never use yet Food banks cost nothing.
I pay income tax (20%) on my pension.
I pay council tax, presently 241 per month for a 2 bedroom bungalow in my borough, most of that going to Surrey CC.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 13:43
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Where I live people with free bus passes have to ‘dab in’ when they get on the bus. I assumed that the ‘system’ makes a note of this and charges the local authority for the journey, a sort of ‘charge as you go’. So no journeys made = no charge incurred. Is this not correct, I would like to know the correct answer. Perhaps local authorities pay an annual lump sum to the bus companies?
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 14:02
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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I did get quite upset by the several people I interviewed, who were capable, but who advised me they would not accept (very fair) offers of employment.
But, as has been pointed out, a forced/reluctant employee could be a major disaster.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 15:24
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DType View Post
I did get quite upset by the several people I interviewed, who were capable, but who advised me they would not accept (very fair) offers of employment.
People have all sorts of reasons for turning down offers of employment. One I remember turning down:

I was called into the boss' office, and he sent his secretary out to get him a cup of coffee. So, before the interview had even started I knew I didn't want to work there ... but I was young and poor so had to sit through the interview and pretend to be interested in the job in order to get my travel expenses.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 17:16
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Some of the reasons given were quite bizarre (I would have to get up earlier/I decided not to have a job/a job would interfere with my playing in the band/etc).
However, you may be pleased to hear that I did manage to get rid of the boss who sent out his graduate (female) engineer to get him his cuppas, and that was some 50 years ago.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 18:59
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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I bought a senior railcard, occasionally used it for later journeys into
London. One day going North bought my ticket to Manchester with a discount saving HMG more than its cost, finance officer queried why I did not pay the same fare as others. Quiet word in the ear �� do not ask questions, or do you wish to pay for my railcard young person. Also used my bus pass, no need to claim for that.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 02:26
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately the welfare system has turned some people who could and should be working into spongers when they see how easy it is to get something for nothing. One socialist government after another has bought votes by increasing benefits for the lower end which is paid for by increasing taxes on the middle class. The top end don't really pay much tax as they hide behind every loophole and charge fees or earn salaries which are padded to give them what they want after the tax comes off. Solicitors charge hundreds of pounds per hour in order to get their desired nett rate in hand after tax, effectively the clients pay the solicitors tax bill out of their own after tax take home.

Alcohol and drug abuse play a part, as does mental health. Children grow up in a single parent household or one in which three generations have never worked and because of this they have no expectation of ever finding a job. Today's jobs are increasingly skilled and specialised which pay well, or very low end which are taken by illegal immigrants or East Europeans who are happy to work for 5 pounds per hour. Good blue collar jobs where someone with low skills and education could still earn a decent wage are becoming increasingly hard to find. The shipyards have closed, the coal mines are no more and the factories have moved to the far east. With high unemployment in many areas, there is little incentive to work in school as you'll only end up on the dole anyway.

The military was a possible way out but some of the potential recruits are of such a poor standard that the armed forces would be better off without them. Physically unfit, of low intelligence, drug or alcohol abusers and incapable of getting out of bed ontime let alone adapting to military discipline. Useful only as cannon fodder.

As stated in an earlier post, some people are simply unemployable.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 15:43
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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I have been involved in volunteering for the last 5 years. 2.5 as operations manager at a city centre food kitchen that had 260 volunteers, opened 6 days a week and served over 40,000 meals a year. Currently running a Food Bank in a market town that boasts a castle and a Duke!!
In the City Centre we served approx. 150 people per day, all adults over 18. I would say that no more than 10% fell into the 'dross' category. The remainder were from varied backgrounds. Lots of elderly who were alone and on the breadline. For them it was food and company. Mental health issues are rampant, drug addiction, alcohol addiction and often individuals had all 3. The reasons behind this are not at all clear cut and can come about from redundancy, disability, abuse....the list goes on. In the food bank we are dealing with children and nearly half our food goes to kids under 5 years old.
What is on the increase is the 'working poor'. Those who have all of these fantastic jobs our politicians go on about. 16 hours a week on minimum wage is a job apparently.
Irrespective of the why's and wherefores is that these are all human beings. Children are children and should not be ignored for the sins of their parents. Yes, I occasionally have to grit my teeth but far more often I have to contain my anger at the sheer injustice of so called society and the almost useless, and expensive, public services that are supposed to ease the burden. I have, even recently, had numerous meetings with local/county/national bodies that send 2, 3 or 4 people to nod and tut in the right places. All have fancy job titles, all in the public sector and 99% of them contribute nothing. If it was not for the voluntary sector we would be in an even worse state.
The gap between the have's and the have nots is now a chasm and it is a disgrace.
A bloody church burns down in Paris and the rich and the powerful offer untold wealth.
500m from the soup kitchen is a stadium where some blokes get millions of quid a year to kick a ball.
An individual who has become ill, been made redundant, has suffered some kind of mental trauma has to jump through hoops and suffer being labelled scum just to get a few quid and a bag of donated food.
Something is not right.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 16:10
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wyler View Post
I have, even recently, had numerous meetings with local/county/national bodies that send 2, 3 or 4 people to nod and tut in the right places. All have fancy job titles, all in the public sector and 99% of them contribute nothing.
Which in most cases will be because they have nothing (ie no cash) to contribute.

Central government requires that all these quangos and "partnerships" and "joint bodies" and all the rest exist, and gives then all targets that they have to report on back to central government, but doesn't these days, let them spend any actual money on actually helping to achieve any of those targets. So all they can do is turn up to meetings with the voluntary sector and report, in umpty-ump different ways from different bodies, what the voluntary sector is up to.

They (or at least the decent ones amongst them) will be just as frustrated about this as you are.

(Some history for people outside the loop: Once Upon A Time public bodies like local authorities used to be able to do things themselves, by running premises, hiring staff, buying stuff, things like that. Then there was this idea that these public bodies shouldn't do stuff any more, they should just commission stuff. And of course this would cost less, because the theory went that everybody in the universe except councils could do councils' work more efficiently, so, obviously, budgets were cut.

And then budgets got cut some more, and then some more, and then some more, because ... well, just because.

So, the public bodies in this middle phase used to commission services from the third sector, and then go along to meetings with them and write reports on how well the money they'd spent on these contracts was being used (fair enough, you might think - public money, needs to be accounted for). These days there's no money, so no "commissioning" of services as such, so the third sector are expected to do their thing using thin air, but the local authorities are still held responsible for the things getting done, despite not having the means to get anything done, hence they still have to have the bureaucrats and the meetings. Good, innit.)
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 16:14
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DType View Post
I did get quite upset by the several people I interviewed, who were capable, but who advised me they would not accept (very fair) offers of employment.
But, as has been pointed out, a forced/reluctant employee could be a major disaster.
When I left school without a job to go to, I went to what was then called the 'Labour Exchange'. I was told quite firmly if I turned down 3 jobs which I was offered, I would get no benefits.
Do they not do that now?
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 16:40
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Do they not do that now?
What, get you three job offers?

Not in my experience, no.

In my experience the dole office help you find exactly 0 jobs you could even apply for, let alone any actual job offers.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 16:52
  #56 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
What, get you three job offers?

Not in my experience, no.

In my experience the dole office help you find exactly 0 jobs you could even apply for, let alone any actual job offers.
My father in law was a master decorator. He saw in the window a 'job advert'. That's me he thought, went in, got the card, went to the desk and said he would have that job. " Where did you get that? ". "In the window.". " You can't do that. "

The upshot was that it was for someone who really needed the job instructing youngsters.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 20:07
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
What, get you three job offers?

Not in my experience, no.

In my experience the dole office help you find exactly 0 jobs you could even apply for, let alone any actual job offers.
No Gertie, stop your benefits if you don't take the jobs they offer.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 20:22
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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chevvron,

You tell 'em - I'm with you.

For the rest of you, I have not claimed my bus pass because none go where I need to, and I am unable to walk more than 100 yards.

I do, however, sponge off the state because my potentially life-saving medical prescriptions are free. I can drive to the pharmacy and park so I do not avail myself of the delivery service.

dook the decrepit
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 20:23
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
No Gertie, stop your benefits if you don't take the jobs they offer.
What jobs?

It's the concept of a dole office actually finding any job offers that I'm questioning - when was the last time you tried? They never found any for me, as I said earlier.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 21:06
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone with a scintilla of imagination can see from the way technical progress is galloping-on that the human work content in jobs is receding at an phenomenal rate to the point where, in a few years time, even some of the middle class won't be able t justify their existence on economic grounds. Can you imagine that, those useful adjuncts to society, such as currency speculators, commodity brokers and hedge fund managers, will have their valuable functions usurped by powerful AI - lodge membership notwithstanding ! Shocking !

The Star Trek economy where resources are so abundant and well distributed according to need that anything can be produced instanteously by anyone at the touch of a button. So cost-free/value-free production would have no need for the ubiquitous hard working taxpayers (Of course, aren't they all) and the real job is just keeping people occupied, to keep them on the right side of sane. No more of the self appointed, condemn more, think less, self-appointed social workers pedalling phoney solutions because they have no resources.

Ziggy says thats a Double hurrah on my "Prostate Trickle down" economic indicator.

Though, I would say, If anybody needs to be accelerated into warp drive past Voyager in the Heliopause, its that Conservative tosser , Lilley, who got up in one of the Conservative party conferences to say "I've got a little list" - a modest admission for the bullshining braggarts we usually find in such roles.

N.

Last edited by NAROBS; 31st Aug 2019 at 21:39.
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